45 Cowboy Special ?

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Hi Pards .

I have been reloading for many years now .

Not much I don't load .

But I'm thinking about trying some 45 Special. Loading for some Pietta Remington Ace with Conversion Cylinder.

I think this would be a nice size loading for this gun .

Can this cartridge be loaded with 45 acp dies or do you need a special die to load the 45 special cartridge  ? 

Any advice for loading this cartridge would be greatly appreciated. 

I load most everything with APP or Unique powder. 

I'm going to likely use 200gr RNFP Lee home cast lead bullets .

 

 

Edited November 26, 2024 by Rooster Ron Wayne

[Griff]

1st... it's Cowboy 45 Special.  I load it on a Dillon 550C, using a 45 Colt sizing die, a .45 powder thru expander, and a 45ACP Seater/Roll Crimp Die...   simple straight forward and produces good ammo.  I DON'T use 45ACP load levels.  I generally load 3.4 grains of Titegroup under either 160 or 200 RFN bullets.    

 

Reasons:  45 Colt dies are straight walled, 45ACP have a very slight taper to aid feeding in semi-autos.  The C45S is a straight wall case, the longer 45 Colt dies size cases appropriate to the cartridge.  Loads... 45ACP is a 21,000 psi cartridge, the 45 Colt is a 14,000 psi cartridge.  My cowboy load, according to QuickLOAD develops a whopping 7,348 PSI and generates about 635 FPS from a 4-¾" revolver.  Keep loads under the capacity of the gun.  Since I'm loading for both rifle and pistols, I much prefer a roll crimp to even the heaviest of taper crimps.   

Edited November 26, 2024 by Griff

[Dapper Dave]

Disregard. Good luck!

Edited November 26, 2024 by Dapper Dave

[Cholla]

Use 45 Autorim. The cases are almost identical. If I recall correctly, the designer of the C45S recommended the Hornady set of dies.

https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-546554-DIESET-Winchester-Three-Die/dp/B000PD5SUE

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

30 minutes ago, Griff said:

1st... it's Cowboy 45 Special

Thanks Griff...it is afterall the C45S...yet folks will still call it...

 

Oh never mind, don't want to offend anyone😜

 

Phantom

[Griff]

2 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Oh never mind, don't want to offend anyone😜

Phantom

What?  Who are you, and what have you done with the Phantom that we've all come to know and love?  

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

2 minutes ago, Griff said:

What?  Who are you, and what have you done with the Phantom that we've all come to know and love?  

I've been...hijacked!

 

😲🤪

 

Phantom...maybe...

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Hey Rooster:

From Adirondack Jack -- The designer of this cartridge:

The very best results to date have been achieved using Hornady New Dimension .45 caliber dies no. 546554. Note Hornady uses the same dies for .45 Colt, ACP, Autorim, and win mag. They produce a proper roll crimp, and use a sliding bullet guide that aids in seating even very short bullets straight. The sizing die is also a bit larger than typical ACP dies, which provides proper bullet tension for .452-4 cast bullets, and requires less effort to size and expand. This makes the press run smoother, and works brass less as well. 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

32 minutes ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said:

Hey Rooster:

From Adirondack Jack -- The designer of this cartridge:

The very best results to date have been achieved using Hornady New Dimension .45 caliber dies no. 546554. Note Hornady uses the same dies for .45 Colt, ACP, Autorim, and win mag. They produce a proper roll crimp, and use a sliding bullet guide that aids in seating even very short bullets straight. The sizing die is also a bit larger than typical ACP dies, which provides proper bullet tension for .452-4 cast bullets, and requires less effort to size and expand. This makes the press run smoother, and works brass less as well. 

Yup, that’s what I’ve been using since 2010. 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Yep, I have a .45 auto rim die to seat and roll crimp my Cowboy 45 Specials.  Works better than a .45 auto taper crimp die!  good luck, GJ

[DukeSoprano]

3.5 Bullseye with a RNFP SNS Bullet = 540 FPS / 108 PF

3.5 Clays with a RNFP SNS Bullet = 554 FPS / 111 PF

[Sixgun Seamus]

9 hours ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said:

Hey Rooster:

From Adirondack Jack -- The designer of this cartridge:

The very best results to date have been achieved using Hornady New Dimension .45 caliber dies no. 546554. Note Hornady uses the same dies for .45 Colt, ACP, Autorim, and win mag. They produce a proper roll crimp, and use a sliding bullet guide that aids in seating even very short bullets straight. The sizing die is also a bit larger than typical ACP dies, which provides proper bullet tension for .452-4 cast bullets, and requires less effort to size and expand. This makes the press run smoother, and works brass less as well. 

These are the dies I now use. I started loading early on using a conglomeration of dies using 45 acp to size. This greatly overworks the brass and will end in cracks on the case mouth. Ask me how I know.

[Sarge]

Griff gave you great advice.  I use C .45 Spl. in both pistol and rifle.  using .45 ACP sizing die will overwork the brass due to the taper and lead to premature split cases.  A .45 Colt sizing die works much better on the straight walled cases.  I also use a roll crimp die.

[Irish Pat]

if you are only going to shoot 45 cowboy special  mouse fart in your revolver a strong crimp would be a waste of time

[Irish Pat]

I bet Phantom agrees…Irish Pat

[Eyesa Horg]

I'm loading my C45S on an SDB. 45colt size die, 45acp seating die, and a trimmed down 45 colt crimp die to get a roll crimp.

Was loading 4.2gr of Clays. Now working up something with Cleanshot. At 4.4gr they feel ok, but still get a lot of the gold colored debris in the barrel and cylinder. Using 160gr RNFP coated bullets.

With the exception of the gold debris, they are pretty clean of carbon debris.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

52 minutes ago, Irish Pat said:

I bet Phantom agrees…Irish Pat

Sorry IP, I can't. If I did I'd get a complaint that I'm not being nice.

 

😜

 

Phantom

[Choctaw Jack]

I've been shooting C45S in my revolvers for about 6 years, and in my '73 for 3 or so. I really enjoy shooting the cartridge. It saves me ~ 25% in powder and lead over my usual loading of .45 Colt.

I load 3.9 grains of ClayDot under a 160 grain RNFP bullet cast from a Lee mold, and powder coated by me. I use a firm roll crimp because it seems to help keep the burn a little cleaner.

635 fps from a 5 1/2 inch barrel and 615 fps from a 4 3/4 inch barrel, but I haven't tested it from my rifle. 

Recoil is practically non-existent.

Choctaw

[Widder, SASS #59054]

For Cowboy shooting, there is some REAL GOOD info posted in this thread.   You'll have to decipher most of it

and find out what gonna work best for you.

 

Now for the other BIG PLUS in the C45S cartridge:  if your pistols are Ruger's, you can load em up to .45 Super pressures

and some good 185 grain JHP bullets to make some dandy 'self defense' loads that are actually easy to handle in a Ruger single 

action revolver.

 

On the negative side, unless your RIFLE chamber is cut for the C45S cartridge, you could experience some questionable

accuracy at distances greater than our SASS targets.

My Marlin 1894 in .45 Colt was set up to run C45S length ammo and although the Marlin gave me great accuracy  with

.45 Colt ammo at 25 yards, it was pretty bad when shooting the C45S ammo.

 

Just thought I would share my experiences.

 

..........Widder

 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Thank you all for all the great info .

I'm just looking to play with a couple of belly guns .

I thought this would be about the right loading I was looking for .

And it sounds about right .

God bless .

Rooster 

[Texas Maverick]

16 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Thanks Griff...it is afterall the C45S...yet folks will still call it...

 

Oh never mind, don't want to offend anyone😜

 

Phantom

What, you must be having an off day. Come on, lay it on them. LOL

 

TM

16 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I've been...hijacked!

 

😲🤪

 

Phantom...maybe...

We just thought you were getting soft in your old age.  NOT

 

TM

[Choctaw Jack]

Re: Bidders post:

To be honest, I haven't tried shooting the C45S past about 20 yards, so I couldn't comment about it's accuracy at that distance.

At my velocity the 160 grain bullet doesn't retain a lot of energy. At most of the clubs I frequent we seldom shoot past 20 yards or so.

I left my backup rifle in the original .45 Colt, so it's there if I need it.

I usually carry a couple of rounds of .45 Colt on my belt for the occasional stubborn knockdown target, and the 200 grain rnfp I use in the Colt loading has always worked well.

The only down side is that if I'm using my main match rifle, any Colt ammo has to be loaded "over the top".

So far ,not a big deal.

[Savvy Jack]

I remember when this cartridge was introduced on this forum by Aidironack Jack. 

 

However, here is a link to some loading sugestions.

Edited December 6, 2024 by Savvy Jack

[Sedalia Dave]

C45S  Cowboy 45 Special