A Question

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

Howdy

 As an outsider I have a couple of questions

 

1...Why does it take 2 months for an official changeover of power ?

 

2..Why are a  defeated administration not in caretaker mode & therefore  not allowed to spend unnecessary funds or make important decisions, pass legislations etc..?

Thanks  ... [ please no barn fights !! ]

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

The simplest answer is because these rules were first written 200 years ago. It took a lot of time to travel to where the newly elected needed to be. Ad to that time to communicate to everybody they needed to, and it was necessary. 

Why hasn't it been changed? No idea.

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

Definitely good questions.  'Specially the second one!  

[Matthew Duncan]

15 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

The simplest answer is because these rules were first written 200 years ago. It took a lot of time to travel to where the newly elected needed to be. Ad to that time to communicate to everybody they needed to, and it was necessary. 

Why hasn't it been changed? No idea.

Didn’t have computers tabulation of ballots 200 years ago either.

[Pat Riot]

The two months is an Administration change over period. 
 

The President is the President until the Inauguration of the new President. 
 

I like the system as it is. It’s worked for nearly 250 years. 

[Stump Water]

1.  The incoming administration needs time to assemble/appoint the cabinet... and they have to be confirmed.  Example: Matt Gaetz withdrew from consideration for AG because, as he said,  "Trump's DOJ must be in place and ready on Day 1."  Because he knew his confirmation was going to be a fight. 

 

2. Because the election of the next administration isn't the end of the current administrations term.  Simple as that.  

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Up until 1933 inauguration day was March 4.  That took care of 19th century travel time.  In 1933 the 20th Amendment to the Constitution changed the date to January 20 to give the old administration less time to engage in mischief.  It takes time to change the Department heads as can be seen by Trump's efforts to name a new cabinent and they have to become familiar with their new jobs so the transition will go smoothly.  There are buildings in Washington that have rooms that look just like the offices the new administration will be moving into so they can become famiiar with their new surroundings.  On Inauguration day the heads of the Departments (Interior, Defense, Agriculture, etc.) hand the key to the building to the new head of the department.

Edited November 22, 2024 by Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Correct me if I’m wrong but in your parliamentary system the shadow cabinet is ready to go on the day the top party changes. I don’t know about their staffs and such. The department leaders are all politicians.

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

It's the difference between our system and parliamentarly systems, where leadership and cabinet heads (as the 'shadow cabinet') are already in place by the time elections are called.

 

And ultimately, as has been pointed out, it's the Constitution that is the reason.

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

4 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but in your parliamentary system the shadow cabinet is ready to go on the day the top party changes. I don’t know about their staffs and such. The department leaders are all politicians.

Howdy....Yep pretty much that's the way it is here Marshal...we just had our State election [ Queensland ] & the incumbents were defeated [ thankfully !! ]..the new Premier & cabinet are sworn in within the week...Federally it is the same & with an election next year hopefully there will be a change as well...when the opposition wins the leader of that party becomes Prime Minister or Premier...they can be voted out of the 'Top spot at any time by party members, it does happen sometimes, you are voting for a particular party but positions within the party  can change.

Voting is compulsory in Council [ county ], state & federal elections.

As you say all department leaders [ Ministers  ] are politicians who are elected from their various regions & appointed to  say Minister for health etc...

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Here department heads and many of their underlings are appointed. They might be politicians, business leaders, key contributors, golf buddies and their caddies.

[Ozark Huckleberry]

The Founders were men who had been mostly willing to lay it all on the line for their idea of what a country should be. There weren't even political parties in the U.S. at that point. They were operating from the belief that the national leaders would be chosen based on merit and love of country.

 

They had no idea a political party would be willing to go 'scorched earth' on the way out the door.

Edited November 22, 2024 by Ozark Huckleberry

[PowderRiverCowboy]

 

Incorrect, The 20th Amendment to the Constitution, adopted in 1933, moved the beginning and ending of the terms of the president and vice president from March 4 to January 20, thereby also shortening the transition period. After the election, an outgoing president is commonly referred to as a lame-duck president. A transition can also arise intra-term if a president dies, resigns or is removed from office, though the period may be very short.

 

Now in the current state of the US you dont want to read Section 3.

Section 3

If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

 

 

 

21 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

The simplest answer is because these rules were first written 200 years ago. It took a lot of time to travel to where the newly elected needed to be. Ad to that time to communicate to everybody they needed to, and it was necessary. 

Why hasn't it been changed? No idea.

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

Give the outgoing administration two months to create problems for the next guy I think

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

23 hours ago, Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 said:

Howdy

 As an outsider I have a couple of questions

 

1...Why does it take 2 months for an official changeover of power ?

 

2..Why are a  defeated administration not in caretaker mode & therefore  not allowed to spend unnecessary funds or make important decisions, pass legislations etc..?

Thanks  ... [ please no barn fights !! ]

The reason is probably because some jackass (or an entire herd of them) thinks they can make a killing....financial. power, or some other benefit for them and their party while still in office  They havet ime to "monkey wrench" a lot to of things before they get done.

 

If you were living here and otherwise eligible to run for office you would have my vote.

 

Why did it take a "furriner" to come up with this question?  I sure never thought of it, but then I'm still trying to figure out daylight savings time.

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

53 minutes ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

The reason is probably because some jackass (or an entire herd of them) thinks they can make a killing....financial. power, or some other benefit for them and their party while still in office  They havet ime to "monkey wrench" a lot to of things before they get done.

 

If you were living here and otherwise eligible to run for office you would have my vote.

 

Why did it take a "furriner" to come up with this question?  I sure never thought of it, but then I'm still trying to figure out daylight savings time.

Get 'ay Forty....Yes it's a abuse of power when really they have lost it !!!! As to daylight saving , hate it myself & luckily here in Queensland the people don't want it & been that way for a long long time...I call it 'Mickey mouse time'...

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

2 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

 

Why did it take a "furriner" to come up with this question?  I sure never thought of it, but then I'm still trying to figure out daylight savings time.

 

It didn't. The difference between the executive transition in a parliamentary system and the US system is  usually first pointed out, with the historical background, in high school civics classes. At least it was in mine, a long time ago.

 

There are downsides to the parliamentary system, at least the English one. The executive is not directly elected. The party in power decides when elections will be held, and can time them at favorable points. Elections can be suspended during 'national emergencies'--- such as WWII, where British elections were suspended for the duration. Contrast with the US Civil War and WWII here-- elections took place on schedule notwithstanding the 'emergency'.

 

Our system seems to have worked. And, of course, this particular issue cuts both ways.

[John Kloehr]

Kind of a side note prompted by this discussion.

 

The US is one the longest lasting governments still in existence today. The Roman Empire certainly lasted a long time, but does not exist today.

 

China? A very very long history, but the current form of government is not very old.

 

The government of Iceland has been in continuous operation for around 1,000 years, but Iceland did not become independent until 1944.

 

The Vatican? The Catholic Church has self-governed for a very long time, but did not officially become a nation (tiny enclave inside Italy) until after WW2.

 

San Morino... Close to 800 years. This is a candidate.

 

England? The parliamentary system has some lasting lineage, but the current form is not really that old.

 

The United States. Still intact and a largely unchanged framework for about 250 years, survived multiple attacks, a civil war, two world wars, and promotes ideas affecting the entire world.

 

Why several months for a change in administrations? Maybe lawyers, maybe it is too big and complicated, maybe other reasons. How does a global corporation like IBM change CEOs? How does it keep operating while leadership changes

 

Continuous operation is part of enduring. A new administration must get its hooks in to all the parts before it pulls in any direction. Also I think there is some slop built in, for instance if the Electoral College did not have a clear result, even after numerous ballots, and selection goes to Congress... This would eat time.

 

Hope Biden can not make things too difficult for Trump before the handoff. I don't think Biden is actually treasonous and will not take some action to set Trump up for failure at the expense of the country or world.

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

Of some interest on the subject, President Trump appointed 14 federal judges in the post-2020 election period, all of  which were confirmed by the Republican Senate. Needless to say, the Dems cried foul, for the reasons some have given here. Indeed, only one post-election-defeat appointment of a federal judge had been made and confirmed for generations before that.

 

So it cuts both ways. The President is the President until Jan. 20.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

I didn't recommend the British system.   I never would.

 

I'm simply agreeing with question of the the time lags and the stupidity of some of our antique reasons for keeping something going with no viable purpose behind it.