Question about betting in a poker game

[Alpo]

It comes around to me. It will cost $10 to call. All I have is 100. I throw the C note in. I am not raising the pot $90, I am just calling.

 

I lose. Does the winner give me $90 out of the pot, since I was only making a $10 bet? Or do I lose the hundred?

[T.K.]

I would put the $100 in and get my $90 back BEFORE the game proceeds......

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

A home game can do most anything - so I will keep my explanation to legit casino games.

 

"Most" casino poker rooms have discontinued the practice of "money plays" - so cash is usually not on the table anymore anyways, just chips.

 

But to answer your question - a single chip or bill placed into the pot as a response to a bet (if not verbalized otherwise) is only a call.

 

If you were FIRST to act and placed your $100 bill or chip into action (and didn't verbalize otherwise) THAN the entire denomination is considered the bet.

 

But as response to prior action; a single "oversize" chip or bill is solely a call (unless verbalized differently).

You will get your change at the conclusion of that round of betting.

 

And the DEALER will sort the pot and push your change to you prior to pushing the pot to the winner.

 

You would never be reliant on another player to make change or ensure you receive change.

[Alpo]

TV show I was watching. She is $40,000 light. But she has a Morgan silver dollar that is worth $120k. She puts it in the pot and calls, however her four Queens does not beat his straight flush. And she loses her dollar.

 

They never mention anything about it in the show, but I just wondered if they woulda/shoulda give her back $80,000.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

What I only learned recently, one can be penalized for folding out of turn.  Makes sense, I just never thought about it.

[Equanimous Phil]

2 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

What I only learned recently, one can be penalized for folding out of turn.  Makes sense, I just never thought about it.

It's definitely bad behaviour and you get reprimanded by the dealer or your colleagues when playing in private. It's the same as making comments when you already left the current pot. I guess if warnings are of no avail someone gets a time-out and if still unregenerate kicked out of the game/tournament?

[Equanimous Phil]

11 hours ago, Alpo said:

They never mention anything about it in the show, but I just wondered if they woulda/shoulda give her back $80,000.

Yes, they should have. Well, TV, artistic license...

[Ozark Huckleberry]

12 hours ago, Alpo said:

TV show I was watching. She is $40,000 light. But she has a Morgan silver dollar that is worth $120k. She puts it in the pot and calls, however her four Queens does not beat his straight flush. And she loses her dollar.

 

They never mention anything about it in the show, but I just wondered if they woulda/shoulda give her back $80,000.

Inferring it was a private game, her Morgan silver dollar was worth $120k IF the other players still in the hand agreed. If none of them agreed to the valuation, it was worth whatever bet it was covering.

[Alpo]

Earlier in the game, before the first hand was dealt, while the cards were still being shuffled.

 

Player two says something about a gun from the 1890s and she (the loser in this story) probably had never seen anything that old. And the woman - player four - said that she just happened to have her lucky 1870-something (it was either a 72 or a 75 - doesn't matter) Morgan silver dollar with her. And player two asked what that was worth and player one said about $100,000, and the woman said $120, and player one nodded his agreement.

 

And player one turned out to be the one with the straight flush. So I don't know whether player two and player three thought it was a 120k coin, but player one agreed it was and he was the one that won the pot. So I suppose he should give her back 80.

[Subdeacon Joe]

It may have a book value of $120,000, but if you try to sell it to a coin dealer I suspect that you would get maybe 60% of that value.  At auction, who knows?  

[Will Kane]

14 hours ago, Alpo said:

TV show I was watching. She is $40,000 light. But she has a Morgan silver dollar that is worth $120k. She puts it in the pot and calls, however her four Queens does not beat his straight flush. And she loses her dollar.

 

They never mention anything about it in the show, but I just wondered if they woulda/shoulda give her back $80,000.

Possibly because that detail was irrelevant to advancing the plot.

[Alpo]

I'm pretty sure that was the reason for most of the stuff in that arc. If I have a silver coin that is worth $120,000, that silver coin is in a protective envelope so it is not exposed to the air, and more importantly it is not exposed to anybody's finger oils. She carried it loose in her pocket, and pulled it out, showed it to everybody while twirling it around, then handed it over and let everybody handle it.

 

Since condition is one of the biggest factors in the value of an old coin (the other being scarcity), this was extremely stupid. But it was television.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

8 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

What I only learned recently, one can be penalized for folding out of turn.  Makes sense, I just never thought about it.

 

Poker is a skill game of mathmatical probability on one side and an intuitive game of player tendencies on the other side.

 

But the mathmatical probabilities are not simply, "This hand wins X% of the time".

 

The mathmatical probabilities of winning/ hand value are affected by the players betting position, the number of players in a hand, money currently in the pot and potential money on the table that "could" end up in the pot this hand. 

(Additionally, within a tournament; clock management, including current blind levels, player stack sizes and time to next blind increase all affect the math/ valuation of a hand).

 

The intuitive part is also affected by player position, behaviors of the players remaining in the hand, quantity of chips remaining in play and risk/ reward expectations/ aspirations.

 

When a player folds out of turn, speaks about the board or says, "Aw, I folded a Queen" - they give information to players in an unfair manner (the first player to act had to base his decision {weighing probability and intuition} against a given number of players), the second player to act is already in a superior position to make better decisions because they have fewer variables, the third player has fewer variables yet - but if the FIFTH player folds or acts out of turn, the FOURTH player has an advantage as they not only have all the preceding players decisions and actions accounted for - they now have a following players as well.

 

In a game of small percentage advantages - knowing what the player(s) following you are going to do, before you act, is huge.

 

In a tournament:

 

First time action out of turn (if it is simply an accident) is USUALLY,

"Be careful, poker is a visual game - please pay attention and act in turn" direction given from the dealer.

 

Second time, usually an official "Warning" given from the tournament Director.

 

Third time, usually brings on a 1 lap penalty.

Meaning that you cannot sit at the table or receive cards but you continue to put in blinds and antes from your chip stack for one lap of the table (a "lap" would be the number of hands dealt equivalent to the number of players remaining at your table - i.e. if 9 players remaining, you will be off the table for 9 hands).

 

In a cash game; generally a little more leeway is given to incorrect etiquette or actions because the other players are unencumbered by increasing blind levels as in a tournament.

But a player repeatedly acting out of turn (after being warned) can simply have their chips "picked up" by management, be cashed out and asked to leave for 24 hours.

 

And acting out of turn can also be construed as "Angle shooting" or "Collusion"; meaning you are deliberately doing something to elicit a response FROM, or convey information TO another player for advantage.

 

Folding out of turn - betting out of turn - sharing information all affect the play and integrity of the game; and while most of the time - it is just an innocent mistake; it can affect other peoples behaviors and money and lead to unpleasant environments.