44-40 and 44 Russian Practice Ammo Recommendations

[John Kloehr]

10 boxes of each for SASS is close to $1,000. Hard to pay a buck a round for practice at the local indoor range.

 

Actual SASS legal ammo is expensive and I did not want to start reloading yet (time limits). Except for a press, I do have almost everything needed to start loading BP (APP) including primer and powder. A top-end Lee press is half the cost of the 20 boxes I have sitting in a shopping cart.

 

So setting aside SASS, FMJ would be fine, is there any good source (brand) for 44-40 RNFP for rifle and 44 Russian for revolver? I'm finding some stuff on AmmoSeek but reviews on brands are mixed. I would not mind having more reloadable brass for the future.

[ORNERY OAF]

44-40 is tough to find and expensive, only real thing is sass loads, some sell those.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

You need to make the time and start reloading.

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Good Evening JK:
When I was relatively new at this hobby many years ago, I bought a bunch of 44-40 black powder ammo from a retiring SASS shooter.
I figured I'd shoot it up, & re-use the brass.

Well, I never got around to it.

As I matured in this game, and spent a lot of time as a TO, I took the attitude that I would not shoot any ammo that I did not load myself, so it has sat in my reloading room all these years -- probably about 15.

There is an old saying about having more time than money, or having more money than time.
Well, I've put my kiddos thru college, and bought many of the things I've always wanted, and the thought of taking down approximately 850 rounds does not interest me.

So, I've got 17 50-round boxes of 44-40, most of which is CAS ammo just sitting there.

I live in Cleveland Ohio.
If you will ever be up this way, it's yours if you want it.

Just come and pick it up.

Send me a PM & we can arrange a time for you to stop by.

--Dawg 

Edited November 10 by Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

It would almost be impossible to buy loaded Ammo and shoot Cowboy 

Action Shooting in any manner. 

You really need to buy some used equipment or some Lee equipment. 

And start loading your own ammo .

Once you get started .

You will wonder why it took you so long to start doing it .

Even if you don't have a lot of space you can load on a small enough scale to keep yourself Shooting. 

So Saith The Rooster .

[Savvy Jack]

16 hours ago, John Kloehr said:

...FMJ would be fine, is there any good source (brand) for 44-40 RNFP for rifle and 44 Russian for revolver?...

 

FMJ loads are typically more expensive than lead, regardless of the "velocity".

 

Generally the cost difference of Winchester low recoil (Lead) and hunting (JSP) ammo is due to the amount of powder used and the type bullets used. This is typically true with other manufactures as well.

Winchester 1,190fps JSP "Hunting" = $175 per 50

Winchester 750fps Lead "Low Recoil" = $75 per 50

 

Of course, prices vary...

If you start reloading from scratch, it will take approximately 1,000 rounds (before the price hike) to just break even on the cost......but it never ends there. If you are an avid CAS shooter...eventually it is cheaper to handload.

 

 

[John Kloehr]

13 hours ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said:

Good Evening JK:
When I was relatively new at this hobby many years ago, I bought a bunch of 44-40 black powder ammo from a retiring SASS shooter.
I figured I'd shoot it up, & re-use the brass.

Well, I never got around to it.

As I matured in this game, and spent a lot of time as a TO, I took the attitude that I would not shoot any ammo that I did not load myself, so it has sat in my reloading room all these years -- probably about 15.

There is an old saying about having more time than money, or having more money than time.
Well, I've put my kiddos thru college, and bought many of the things I've always wanted, and the thought of taking down approximately 850 rounds does not interest me.

So, I've got 17 50-round boxes of 44-40, most of which is CAS ammo just sitting there.

I live in Cleveland Ohio.
If you will ever be up this way, it's yours if you want it.

Just come and pick it up.

Send me a PM & we can arrange a time for you to stop by.

--Dawg 

12 hour round trip but noting your extreme generosity! If you don't need it, consider selling it locally. At close to a buck per round today, I would not have to think twice paying just half that.

[Eyesa Horg]

12 hours could make for a nice weekend trip to visit the Dawg!

[John Kloehr]

5 minutes ago, Savvy Jack said:

If you start reloading from scratch, it will take approximately 1,000 rounds (before the price hike) to just break even on the cost......but it never ends there. If you are an avid CAS shooter...eventually it is cheaper to handload.

Maybe I should up the priority to start reloading this winter. Some time back, I bought a starter supply of each caliber as a brass source. Now that I want to do some practice outside of competitions, my supply looks a bit short. Maybe still have a dozen boxes of 44-40, half that in 44 Russian. A bit of sticker shock yesterday when I looked to resupply.

 

I already bought primers, APP, bullets, calipers, a scale, tumbler, books, and more. Just an item at a time back when CoViD hit. Most of the remaining cost to get started is a press. 20 boxes of HSM comes to about $900 delivered, so real close to choosing a press and getting an order in for dies. A quick look makes me think I can start loading for 1/2 that considering what I already have. I plan to load a half dozen calibers over time.

 

Back before CoViD, there were more choices, the cowboy loads were expensive. Now they are even more expensive and I see no other ammo choices in these calibers.

 

The short answer on this thread is there is no viable alternative for lower-cost practice ammo.

 

[John Kloehr]

28 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

12 hours could make for a nice weekend trip to visit the Dawg!

Yes, still thinking on it... Extremely generous offer. And would fill out a brass supply.

[John Kloehr]

Did just order 500 pieces of Starline 44 Russian brass, 32 cents per piece. In stock at Grafs.

 

44-40 brass is unobtanium at the moment, I might have some. Need to dig into my pallet of related stuff to see.

[John Kloehr]

Checked my "pallet," lot of 38 special.

 

Dug deeper on line and found new Starline 44-40 brass, 500 pieces at 31 cents per piece:

 

https://maverickreloading.com/product/44-40-win-new-starline-brass-100ct/

 

I hope it is actually in stock... Others may want to bookmark it as the only other place showing stock is far more expensive.

Edited November 10 by John Kloehr
spelling

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

I don't see how you can shoot the big bore 44 Russian, 44 Special, 44-40, 45 Colt, etc. with any regularity without reloading.  Unless you shoot just a few matches per year. If you also want to practice it's going to get expensive. If you have some 38/.357 guns you can practice with them but that's another set of guns to buy. 

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Hey JK:
I will be down in Southern Ohio (Pomeroy) on Thanksgiving & the Friday after Thanksgiving, visiting my son.
If you can come up Friday, I can bring it with me, and you could come to my son’s house & pick it up.

He is 4 hours closer to you, and it would cost you just time & gas.

And you’ll end up with a bunch of brass.

—Dawg

[John Kloehr]

24 minutes ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said:

Hey JK:
I will be down in Southern Ohio (Pomeroy) on Thanksgiving & the Friday after Thanksgiving, visiting my son.
If you can come up Friday, I can bring it with me, and you could come to my son’s house & pick it up.

He is 4 hours closer to you, and it would cost you just time & gas.

And you’ll end up with a bunch of brass.

—Dawg

Sir, I will give that more thought. Concern might be weather but my calendar is free then.

[Eyesa Horg]

How bad can the weather be to not save 8 hours of driving!

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

If you REALLY DO NOT want to reload, then you should be shooting .38 special guns.  All other chamberings - you need to reload to avoid PREMIUM pricing.m GJ

[John Kloehr]

4 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

If you REALLY DO NOT want to reload, then you should be shooting .38 special guns.  All other chamberings - you need to reload to avoid PREMIUM pricing.m GJ

I always figured on reloading. I knew that when I chose these calibers. I just expected to have more free time by now.

 

Except for the press, I have almost everything needed so I'm already in more than half way on cost.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

1 minute ago, John Kloehr said:

Except for the press, I have almost everything needed

 

So get a used single-stage press for $30-50 and start on it.   Will pay itself off in 2 boxes of .44-40.  GJ

[John Kloehr]

37 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

How bad can the weather be to not save 8 hours of driving!

I guessed based on "Brown Township" in Ohio. There are several of them and I clearly guessed wrong. Pomeroy is still a 12+ hour round trip. Crunched the numbers and fuel will be under $150 so I really should do this.

Edited November 10 by John Kloehr

[John Kloehr]

10 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

So get a used single-stage press for $30-50 and start on it.   Will pay itself off in 2 boxes of .44-40.  GJ

My current planned reload list is close to a dozen calibers (counting smokeless and BP versions of cowboy).

• 44-40 Smokeless
• 44-40 BP
• 44 Russian smokeless
• 44 Russian BP
• 38 Special Smokeless
• 38 Special BP (I could not resist an Evil Roy 1873 rifle slicked by Grimes)
• .556
• .223
• .300 BO Subsonic (Tax stamps for suppressed SBR approved, need to build it)
• .45ACP (but not looking at Wild Bunch at this time)
• 9mm 'cuz next CoViD or Monkey Pox or whatever, I was down to just a few boxes
• And various versions of 12GA shotgun loads, but this is a different subject

So yes, I absolutely am going to reload. Maybe this winter instead of next, no later than that. Considering I will likely have a learning curve, may be time to get the rest of the tools either way. Amazon has Lee dies for cowboy in stock today.

 

[Pee Wee #15785]

For a press get either a single stage or a Dillon 550.  I have 2 dedicated Dillon SDB's, a RCBS single stage, and a 550. Also have 4 MEC 650 jr's for shotgun.  Loaded for 6 shooters for about 5 years starting in 1999 and still load for myself on the machines.

 

Go to StarLine brass https://www.starlinebrass.com/44-40-brass get you name in and you will have .44 WCF when you start reloading. 

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Brown Township is near Columbus, whereas Pomeroy is a bit east of Cincinnati, right on the Ohio river. 

Edited November 10 by Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329

[John Kloehr]

9 minutes ago, Pee Wee #15785 said:

For a press get either a single stage or a Dillon 550.  I have 2 dedicated Dillon SDB's, a RCBS single stage, and a 550. Also have 4 MEC 650 jr's for shotgun.  Loaded for 6 shooters for about 5 years starting in 1999 and still load for myself on the machines.

 

Go to StarLine brass https://www.starlinebrass.com/44-40-brass get you name in and you will have .44 WCF when you start reloading. 

Besides what I have collected, New Starline brass is on the way (I hope).

 

I'm split between Dillon and Lee (and maybe others) for a press, also split between a single stage or turret.

 

I get the sense I should start with a single stage as I am going to be learning, OTOH if I am going to produce 500 of a round at a time, maybe I should just go big in the first place. And get a bullet puller as I try to produce even my first round LOL.

 

I do expect a learning curve, and getting brass ready for reloading seems to be 90% of the time required. The skill required is a little less clear. So maybe a tactical ammo resupply while getting started still makes sense.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

15 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

split between Dillon and Lee (and maybe others) for a press,

Not even close as to quality and usability and resale value.  You sound like you are buying on names you have heard someone mention rather than considering what your real needs are.   (I can not imagine what the motivation would be that someone would be "split" between a Dillon progressive and any Lee loader.  Sorry,  just little comparison.) 

 

The volume of your shooting will make much more difference in a press choice than the wide range of chamberings you are considering.  Larger volumes of shooting and small amount of free time means you might really benefit from a Dillon progressive or a Hornady Ammo Plant.  Either will be pricey and take some learning time.   A simple used RCBS or Lyman single stage press is a great learning tool, though, and the dies you might buy will mostly move up to better productions rates pretty well.

 

good luck, GJ

[John Kloehr]

21 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Not even close as to quality and usability and resale value.  You sound like you are buying on names you have heard someone mention rather than considering what your real needs are.   (I can not imagine what the motivation would be that someone would be "split" between a Dillon progressive and any Lee loader.  Sorry,  just little comparison.) 

 

The volume of your shooting will make much more difference in a press choice than the wide range of chamberings you are considering.  Larger volumes of shooting and small amount of free time means you might really benefit from a Dillon progressive or a Hornady Ammo Plant.  Either will be pricey and take some learning time.   A simple used RCBS or Lyman single stage press is a great learning tool, though, and the dies you might buy will mostly move up to better productions rates pretty well.

 

good luck, GJ

I fully admit I am early in this selection. I would rather buy once and cry once but also recognize I might do better stepping up in complexity. This is one of the reasons I have not purchased any press; I'm still an idiot. I am.

 

Being able to reuse dies is something I would like to do. Also, as a new person to reloading, I would rather buy new.

 

Perhaps I should start a new thread for this, but even better maybe I do some more reading first. I did go to a Hornady seminar a couple months ago, learned a lot in those hours. Well worth going to.

 

While I have not done enough thinking yet, I do get the sense I should allow some months between having everything on hand and having personal "production" quantities of safe ammo.

 

I do not object to (and even welcome) input on how to approach developing these skills. Even critical input, Squibs and blown receivers are very bad things.

 

I also have offers for assistance for this with some experience which I will call on, I am very early in this process. I'm still not sure which questions I should ask. I don't yet know enough to know what I don't know.

 

As to volume, my thought is once set up, I would like to produce 300 to 500 rounds of any particular flavor. Initial goal would be one round, and see how it does for hitting a target and what the velocity is. Then maybe 10 for pattern and grouping.

 

On edit: Cowboy is the critical reason to go down this road soon, I figure three to five years for the list of calibers I posted above.

Edited November 11 by John Kloehr

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Go with Dillon 550.

The SDB doesn't use conventional loading dies, can't load rifle calibers, and is a PITA to change calibers. 

[Jackson Haller]

Go with a turret press and get some extra turrets (I'm fond of the Redding T-7 one).  Once you put the dies in them and get them set to load, you can leave them and switch out to different turrets depending on what caliber you want to reload.  Get an "RCBS automatic bench priming tool"; your hands will thank me! (Hand primers are a pain!) Also get Lee Factory crimp dies for your CAS calibers; bullet seating will then be done by one die and the crimp will be done by another die.  Having these jobs done by separate dies made for simpler setting up of the dies, atleast in my experience.

Good Luck!

 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

2 hours ago, John Kloehr said:

As to volume, my thought is once set up, I would like to produce 300 to 500 rounds of any particular flavor.

Volume means how many a month or year do you plan to shoot.    Once you load 500 say, you are not done.  You have just begun.   If you do a match a month, and practice a little once a month, that is maybe 20 rounds for match and 40 rounds for practice.  Or 60 rounds a month, which is 720 rounds a year.  That volume you can easily do with a single stage press. 

 

I shoot at least 700 rounds a month of cowboy and 700 rounds of Wild Bunch, more in good weather.  For me, a Dillon 550 press is just about right.  And extra die plates are available for that press, so to change to a different round, it can be as simple as swapping the die plate, the shell plate and maybe the primer feeder/seater.  30 minutes at the most.

 

Getting advice from an experienced reloader is about the best way to learn this hobby.  If they already know how to load for cowboy matches, it's a genuine gift if he will work with you to learn how to load 'light"!

 

After you load for a couple of months you will start to understand what equipment will work for you.   I'd not buy a LOT of stuff until you get that experience under your belt.  You may get a recommendation here for every reloading machine ever made.   Most will work for you, but costs can range from a few hundred to a couple-three thousand.  And production rates run a wide gamut.  Learn, then buy once and wisely.

 

good luck, GJ

Edited November 11 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

This is a the cheapest best way to start in my opinion. 

Lee Reloading Classic 4 Hole Turret Press Deluxe Kit 90304

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333561105053?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=wqqvNguUTum&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=EO4YYNjoR1O&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Edited November 11 by Rooster Ron Wayne

[Boggus Deal #64218]

14 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

(I can not imagine what the motivation would be that someone would be "split" between a Dillon progressive and any Lee loader.  Sorry,  just little comparison.) 

He is not wrong. This is not a Ford/Chevy truck comparison. This is a loaded, top of the line Lincoln Navigator to a Yugo. 

[John Kloehr]

14 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

... You sound like you are buying on names you have heard someone mention rather than considering what your real needs are.   (I can not imagine what the motivation would be that someone would be "split" between a Dillon progressive and any Lee loader.  Sorry,  just little comparison.)

At this point, I am exploring what names I hear most. I have not compared prices and features. 

 

10 minutes ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

He is not wrong. This is not a Ford/Chevy truck comparison. This is a loaded, top of the line Lincoln Navigator to a Yugo. 

 

Just took a first look at cost. Not in detail for features yet, but there is a price difference.

 

I will have more questions once I get down to less than a handful of choices. I already have some questions, but best I do some homework before asking too much more. The more I prepare before asking, the more valuable all of your answers will be.

[Eyesa Horg]

Go Dillon! Don't be afraid of an SDB if you are only going to load pistol calibers. I've been using mine for over 30 years with no issues. Takes about 2 minutes to change calibers if you have separate tool heads and a separate primer feeder. 4 screws on the tool head, 3 on the primer feed and one on the shell plate. Makes about 3 to 400 an hour for me.

["Big Boston"]

9 minutes ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

He is not wrong. This is not a Ford/Chevy truck comparison. This is a loaded, top of the line Lincoln Navigator to a Yugo. 

 

As I was reading this topic, the mention of a single stage, and a LEE press, and I was starting to hear the NO word in my head. First, I shoot and reload 44-40, and I have two handguns and two rifles in the caliber, so that is 14 seperate chambers to satisfy. The 44-40 case has a shoulder and a tapered wall as well, setting up the dies, and even selecting or selecting dies is a factor. The comment about 38 Special applies, a straight walled case, in such a common caliber, is way simpler. 

 

I do not load BP or APP, no experience there, but for reloading any volume at all the Dillon 550, an entry level progressive press, is just about the minimum I'd want. I had a single stage and as soon as I started loading for cowboy I bought a good quality turret press, and after a year of that I went out and bought a 550. Several months later I added another 550. There are other good progressive presses, but Dillon makes most of them. 

 

 I am curious, what equipment is best for dispensing the BP/APP, and what method is used. My BP experience stops at loading a muzzleloader for whitetail season. 

 

BB

["Big Boston"]

One last comment on price; if cost is an issue, getting into Cowboy Action may not be your game. It's not for the faint of wallet. Yes, we all try and keep it economical, but since COVID, the price we pay has increased, and cheap sometimes takes the fun out of the game. 

 

And if price is a consideration, 44-40 is a poor caliber choice. And don't cry when you don't get 100% of your new Starline brass back after completing a stage. It's like loosing a ball in golf, part of the game. 

 

Most of the time I shoot 38/357, just to simplify things. I bring out the big guns on occasion, they are fun.

 

That being said, for BP/APP, the 44-40 and 38-40 with their thin brass and bottleneck shape are the kings. 

 

BB