Alpo Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 There has been at least one thread and probably a dozen or more memes about the squirrel that was confiscated and then killed by New York. Something similar happened in California. Girl raised a goat. Showed it at the fair with the 4-H. And after the show, the fair told the girl that they would now auction off the goat so it would be butchered. And she told them no they wouldn't. It was not the fair's goat, it was not the 4-h's goat. It was her goat and she did not want it sold. They auctioned it off anyhow. A state senator bought it. And the girl refused to give it up. It was her goat. It was her pet. And she did not agree to sell it. The police get involved. County sheriff serves a search warrant on place A, where they think the goat might be. It wasn't there. So as they're going back to the cop shop, one of the deputies suggest that it might be in place B - where they did not have a warrant to look. They went and looked anyhow. Found the goat. Confiscated the goat. Eventually killed the goat. This ended up costing the county $300,000. The lawsuit against the fair is still ongoing. Maybe New York should pay attention to California. https://www.courthousenews.com/california-county-pays-up-after-illegally-seizing-childs-pet-goat/ 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 Guess I'd be goin off to prison. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Harley, #14153 Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 In the early 70s at the Ohio State Fair, a girl’s goat won grand champion and went up for auction. (And the auctions were broadcast live on TV!) The bidders were nearly always local businesses looking to support the 4H and their students while getting some advertising in the farming community. Back then, a grand champion could fund a few years of college or trade school. When the girl’s goat was auctioned she started crying and hugging on the goat. The winning bidder, a local restaurateur, let her keep her pet and the money. He just wanted the plaque to hang behind the bar. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 1 hour ago, Alpo said: There has been at least one thread and probably a dozen or more memes about the squirrel that was confiscated and then killed by New York. Something similar happened in California. Girl raised a goat. Showed it at the fair with the 4-H. And after the show, the fair told the girl that they would now auction off the goat so it would be butchered. And she told them no they wouldn't. It was not the fair's goat, it was not the 4-h's goat. It was her goat and she did not want it sold. They auctioned it off anyhow. A state senator bought it. And the girl refused to give it up. It was her goat. It was her pet. And she did not agree to sell it. The police get involved. County sheriff serves a search warrant on place A, where they think the goat might be. It wasn't there. So as they're going back to the cop shop, one of the deputies suggest that it might be in place B - where they did not have a warrant to look. They went and looked anyhow. Found the goat. Confiscated the goat. Eventually killed the goat. This ended up costing the county $300,000. The lawsuit against the fair is still ongoing. Maybe New York should pay attention to California. https://www.courthousenews.com/california-county-pays-up-after-illegally-seizing-childs-pet-goat/ No amount of money will make this right, but I hope she get at least twice that much out of the fair!! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 1 hour ago, Alpo said: There has been at least one thread and probably a dozen or more memes about the squirrel that was confiscated and then killed by New York. Something similar happened in California. Girl raised a goat. Showed it at the fair with the 4-H. And after the show, the fair told the girl that they would now auction off the goat so it would be butchered. And she told them no they wouldn't. It was not the fair's goat, it was not the 4-h's goat. It was her goat and she did not want it sold. They auctioned it off anyhow. A state senator bought it. And the girl refused to give it up. It was her goat. It was her pet. And she did not agree to sell it. The police get involved. County sheriff serves a search warrant on place A, where they think the goat might be. It wasn't there. So as they're going back to the cop shop, one of the deputies suggest that it might be in place B - where they did not have a warrant to look. They went and looked anyhow. Found the goat. Confiscated the goat. Eventually killed the goat. This ended up costing the county $300,000. The lawsuit against the fair is still ongoing. Maybe New York should pay attention to California. https://www.courthousenews.com/california-county-pays-up-after-illegally-seizing-childs-pet-goat/ Why not? They copy California on almost everything else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 4H kids are most often going to be farmers or ranchers. They learn about animals and raising and showing them. The large animal winners are sold for a disproportionate amount compared to regular stock and they get the money for school. What they also learn is that the animals are a product, not a pet. Animals on a farm or ranch are generally raised to be sold. Clearly there were various misunderstandings and violations of law, and even of common sense, but I don't think the situation is comparable to that of Peanut the squirrel. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 The part that gets me about this is that the Sheriff's department used the resources to have two deputies drive several hours to Sonoma county to confiscate the goat. Also the family offered to pay the county their cut from the goat that the county would have received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 6 minutes ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said: The part that gets me about this is that the Sheriff's department used the resources to have two deputies drive several hours to Sonoma county to confiscate the goat. Also the family offered to pay the county their cut from the goat that the county would have received. And they searched without a warrant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 (edited) Look on the bright side. At a very young age, that young girl learned to distrust those placed in authority. Edited November 4 by Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 Just now, Dantankerous said: And they searched without a warrant... That seems to happen a lot more often these days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 Just now, Eyesa Horg said: That seems to happen a lot more often these days. And never with positive consequences for anyone. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 5 hours ago, Alpo said: There has been at least one thread and probably a dozen or more memes about the squirrel that was confiscated and then killed by New York. Something similar happened in California. Girl raised a goat. Showed it at the fair with the 4-H. And after the show, the fair told the girl that they would now auction off the goat so it would be butchered. And she told them no they wouldn't. It was not the fair's goat, it was not the 4-h's goat. It was her goat and she did not want it sold. They auctioned it off anyhow. A state senator bought it. And the girl refused to give it up. It was her goat. It was her pet. And she did not agree to sell it. The police get involved. County sheriff serves a search warrant on place A, where they think the goat might be. It wasn't there. So as they're going back to the cop shop, one of the deputies suggest that it might be in place B - where they did not have a warrant to look. They went and looked anyhow. Found the goat. Confiscated the goat. Eventually killed the goat. This ended up costing the county $300,000. The lawsuit against the fair is still ongoing. Maybe New York should pay attention to California. https://www.courthousenews.com/california-county-pays-up-after-illegally-seizing-childs-pet-goat/ I thought those projects were undertaken with the understanding that the animals would be auctioned off and butchered, often restaurants bidding and using the purchase in a short term advertising campaign to show support for youth and community, as well as "Look at the quality of our ingredients!" To me the major wrong was warrantless search. I don't know what the girl had to sign to enter the show. But it likely wasn't any secret that the animal would be sold at auction. And I would guess that the fair authority gets a cut of the money from the auction, hence the fair getting involved in having the animal taken from her. Just my opinion, but if she didn't want it auctioned she shouldn't have shown it, or even undertaken the project to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Joker Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 SDJ that's her critter until she auctions it. Showing a goat or a pig or horse or cow doesn't give somebody else the right to steal it and sell it. They hung horse thieves and cattle rustlers. What do they do to goat thieves? Deputies exercising a warrant outside their jurisdiction at a place not named by the warrant might lose qualified immunity for violations of civil rights. Theft under color of authority.... no wonder they made a plea deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 45 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said: I thought those projects were undertaken with the understanding that the animals would be auctioned off and butchered, often restaurants bidding and using the purchase in a short term advertising campaign to show support for youth and community, as well as "Look at the quality of our ingredients!" To me the major wrong was warrantless search. I don't know what the girl had to sign to enter the show. But it likely wasn't any secret that the animal would be sold at auction. And I would guess that the fair authority gets a cut of the money from the auction, hence the fair getting involved in having the animal taken from her. Just my opinion, but if she didn't want it auctioned she shouldn't have shown it, or even undertaken the project to start with. I sure don't think they do here or kids couldn't win previous ribbons with the same critter. It's got to be heartbreaking for a youngster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 20 minutes ago, Texas Joker said: SDJ that's her critter until she auctions it. Showing a goat or a pig or horse or cow doesn't give somebody else the right to steal it and sell it. OK, I understand that a person that young can't be held to a contract, and I don't know what the 4H project parameters and expectations are, or what had to be agreed to in order to show the animal. Or if she, or her parents, signed an "Intent to Sell" form. If she did, should she be allowed to back out? An artist enters a work at a contest gallery with the understanding that all works in the show will be auctioned at the end of the show. The piece takes best overall. Should the artist then be able to say "Sorry, but I'm keeping it."? It's no big secret that animals entered in the Market Class division usually get, well, marketed. Granted, it was pretty darned harsh the way it was handled, and it was a gross violation of civil rights to conduct that warrantless search and seizure. That State Senator should have paid and donated the animal back to the girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 6 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said: I sure don't think they do here or kids couldn't win previous ribbons with the same critter. It's got to be heartbreaking for a youngster. Maybe not entered in Market Class? I don't know much about 4H or FFA, when my wife's kids were in 4H they raised a couple of rabbits and showed in some class that wasn't Market. 30 years ago so details are vague....my involvement was buying the feed and driving them to meetings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 The kids who raise steers and hogs pretty much are ready for them to be auctioned off. At our local fairs the hogs sre ran to the trucks by adults and the older 4H boys. The kids with lambs and goats (mostly girls) personally walk them to the truck on their leads. A lot more of them are emotional at that point. The people who bid on rabbits generally let the kid keep them. I don't know if this is accurate but I've heard that here in northern California and some other states even the kids with non champion animals receive far more then market value. But in some other states they routinely get closer to normal market value. Some of the boys will tell the kids crying, "it's a market animal! " 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Joker Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 If its got a name its breeding stock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 10 minutes ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said: don't know if this is accurate but I've heard that here in northern California and some other states even the kids with non champion animals receive far more then market value. Here in Sonoma County the top five or so get, or used to get, very high returns. The rest get close to normal market value. I haven't followed it in years. Our County Fair has dropped, or greatly cut back, on the a lot of the usual county fair contests. Become a beer and wine event. To be fair, much of the agricultural variety has disappeared, being replaced by vineyards. But the home and mechanical arts have also fallen by the wayside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 What I had heard was that back in the Midwest, for example, the average auction price was closer to market price. Here even the average animal was quite a bit more then that. Of course the champions got much more. This was in Tehama county. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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