Pompous, Pigheaded Prigs

[Subdeacon Joe]

Populating the British Command Structure.  Personal animosity,  poor communication, unclear orders, and a vast amount of stupidity. 

 

 

25 October,  1854, Crimea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

Ours , not to wonder why , ours but to do or die 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Putting this together with another 19th century event. The Crimean War cost so much that the Czar had to sell Alaska.

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

Commissions in the Army and Cavalry were purchased, with little regard to merit.

It didn't always work for the best.

The practice was abolished in the early 1870's if memory serves.

The Royal Navy did not follow the practice.

[Subdeacon Joe]

26 minutes ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

Commissions in the Army and Cavalry were purchased, with little regard to merit.

It didn't always work for the best.

The practice was abolished in the early 1870's if memory serves.

The Royal Navy did not follow the practice.

 

"What military genius thought that one up?  Somebody's son and heir?  Bought his commission before he's learned to shave?"

 

"I rather fancy that he's  nobody's son and heir now."

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

Practice of purchase of a commission goes back to the mid 1600's.

The thought was that the well off would be the better leaders, being educated etc. and having a monetary stake would help ensure loyalty and devotion to duty, as I understand it.

 Some learned their business and a lot didn't and it cost a lot of lives among those who took the King's Shilling.

[Blackwater 53393]

OP’s description in the title is about as accurate as could possibly be!!

 

The British suffered massive losses on numerous occasions because of it!!

 

The British Empire was built on the backs of people who were conscripted into service and became “Cannon Fodder”, used literally in numbers large enough to simply overwhelm the opposition!  Many of them were not even British citizens!!!

 

 

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

4 hours ago, Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 said:

Ours , not to wonder why , ours but to do or die 

 

The original poem by Tennyson: "Theirs not to reason why, theirs but to do and die."

Edited October 24, 2024 by Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

close enough to figure out the message 

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

A notable exception to the "Purchase" system was the Royal Navy.

My GG Grandfather rose from Midshipman to Vice Admiral, due to ability (and time in rank)

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

7 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

"What military genius thought that one up?  Somebody's son and heir?  Bought his commission before he's learned to shave?"

 

"I rather fancy that he's  nobody's son and heir now."

previously armies were raised and run by dukes, earls, barons, knights.

 

A trained offer corps? Who’d a thunk it?   The Romans, but Rome fell didn’t it.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2024 by Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984

[Dr. Zook]

20 minutes ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

previously armies were raised and run by dukes, earls, barons, knights.

 

A trained offer corps? Who’d a thunk it?   The Romans, but Rome fell didn’t it.

 

 

Took awhile for Rome to fall --- "Nero" anyone??? --- wait a minute just got a deja vu feeling watching the evening news....

[Dr. Zook]

5 hours ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

 

The original poem by Tennyson: "Theirs not to reason why, theirs but to do and die."

unfortunately, that led to another poem that's recited annually on Remembrance Day -- "In Flanders Field" by John McCrae

In Flanders Fields by John McCrae - Poems | Academy of American Poets

[Seamus McGillicuddy]

The purchase of office system does of course appear to be ridiculously unsupportable on the surface. But in part due to it Britain did not suffer the type of threats to their own government from their own armed forces that some states on the continent did. The aftermath of the English Civil War with the army, including many junior officers, exercising an exaggerated degree of influence over political  affairs only served to increase the concern that a professional army could be as much a threat to a nation as being its salvation.  This concern was a significant one with our own founding fathers when they made sure that the ultimate authority over an intentionally constrained military was a civilian commander in chief.  Eventually the ever increasing need for military leaders to be highly educated technicians as well as charismatic leaders of men led to the end of the practice.  The army’s inexcusably awful performance during the Crimean War could be said to be exhibit A for this change. It’s difficult to say if this system did more harm than good but at the very least it was not irrational. 
 

Seamus

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

4 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

A trained offer corps? Who’d a thunk it?   The Romans, but Rome fell didn’t it.

 

Rome fell in the West in the 5th century, after about seven or so centuries from Republic to Empire. But it persisted in the East as a great power for many centuries thereafter, and came only to the end in 1453, with the fall of Constantinople to the Ottomans.

 

In all, Rome had a continuous political existence for almost 2,000 years, from the early Republic to the final end. 

 

Not bad. We should do so well.