TheOatmealMan Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 I recently picked up a solid frame model 97 manufactured in 1898. After cleaning it and replacing a broken slide action spring I have to really push the slide forward to get it to lock into place. I am also able to pull the trigger and let the hammer fall before the carrier is completely seated and the slide being locked. Is this considered normal? I'm thinking the new spring is possibly causing this. I noticed my gun originally had the old style spring ( slotted looking) and I replaced it with the new version that looks similar to a lock washer. Any input is appreciated! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy1897 Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 There is an old style slotted spring for 20 bucks shipped on eBay right now. That’s not a lot of money to test out your theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 9 hours ago, TheOatmealMan said: I recently picked up a solid frame model 97 manufactured in 1898. After cleaning it and replacing a broken slide action spring I have to really push the slide forward to get it to lock into place. I am also able to pull the trigger and let the hammer fall before the carrier is completely seated and the slide being locked. Is this considered normal? I'm thinking the new spring is possibly causing this. I noticed my gun originally had the old style spring ( slotted looking) and I replaced it with the new version that looks similar to a lock washer. Any input is appreciated! Thanks! Your 97 has a safety defect that needs to be corrected before you put a live round in it. The hammer SHOULD NOT fall when you pull the trigger with the bolt out of battery. The spring you reference has nothing to do with this particular problem. Others more knowledgeable on the internals of the 97 can better explain how to fix this problem. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTIN FOX Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 Go here for info 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Thunder Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 Those solid frames are rare birds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 4 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said: Your 97 has a safety defect that needs to be corrected before you put a live round in it. The hammer SHOULD NOT fall when you pull the trigger with the bolt out of battery. Defect? Turn one little screw and the problem will go away. Phantom 1 hour ago, Roland Thunder said: Those solid frames are rare birds Not that rare. Phantom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOatmealMan Posted October 20 Author Share Posted October 20 59 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Turn one little screw and the problem will go away. What screw are you referring to? Trigger stop? From my understanding the hammer prematurely falling and the difficulty of getting the slide to lock the carrier in place are two separate problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Thunder Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 5 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Defect? Turn one little screw and the problem will go away. Phantom Not that rare. Phantom I've only seen 2 around here in the last 20 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOatmealMan Posted October 22 Author Share Posted October 22 This is a picture of how close I can get the carrier before the trigger can be released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlaw Gambler Posted October 22 Share Posted October 22 Rare! They are all over the place if you look. I just picked up 4 of them two weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted October 22 Share Posted October 22 22 minutes ago, Outlaw Gambler said: Rare! They are all over the place if you look. I just picked up 4 of them two weeks ago. How heavy were they? Oh that's right, they are the light version!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlaw Gambler Posted October 22 Share Posted October 22 They have to be or I can't have them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOatmealMan Posted October 22 Author Share Posted October 22 SOLVED The trigger stop screw needed to be adjusted. However, on early models the stop screw is located under a cover screw on the exterior of the trigger guard towards the action. The difficulty locking the slide into place was cured by filing the new action slide spring down. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 22 Share Posted October 22 1 hour ago, TheOatmealMan said: The trigger stop screw needed to be adjusted. Well there ya go! Phantom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Big Boston" Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 On 10/19/2024 at 9:10 PM, TheOatmealMan said: I recently picked up a solid frame model 97 manufactured in 1898. After cleaning it and replacing a broken slide action spring I have to really push the slide forward to get it to lock into place. I am also able to pull the trigger and let the hammer fall before the carrier is completely seated and the slide being locked. Is this considered normal? I'm thinking the new spring is possibly causing this. I noticed my gun originally had the old style spring ( slotted looking) and I replaced it with the new version that looks similar to a lock washer. Any input is appreciated! Thanks! I get the feeling the soup is getting a bit watered down, I'll add my $0.02. After cleaning it and replacing a broken slide action spring I have to really push the slide forward to get it to lock into place. First, the function of the slide spring is to keep a bit of pressure on the action slide lock. For normal function in the field, the tension needs to be enough to keep the action slide lock from releasing the slide when you are going to half cock. A new spring can be a bit too stiff, and it can be lightened slightly or shortened to reduce that pressure. Like many other parts in an 1897 Winchester, hand fitting was required when a part is replaced. For CAS, the shotgun is unloaded, the action is open and the shotgun is staged on the table. In a way, how it is used, the slide spring could be broken or missing, and everything would work like it needs too. But for WB, where the magazine is loaded and the shotgun staged with the hammer down on a empty chamber, I like to adjust the open length and tension of the slide spring to make picking up the shotgun, racking in a shell and firing the shotgun are as smooth as possible. My test is to see if the action lock spring is doing its job for the WB staging scenario. IOW, when the hammer is lowered onto an empty chamber the action spring should have enough tension so that the action remains locked, even if jostled a bit. A bit of force forward on the pump should release the action. That's the tension part, but the spring needs to be long enough in its free state so that when carrying the shotgun to the line or jostling it a bit does not relock the action. When you pick the shotgun off the table you want the action unlocked and you want to be able to just pump and shoot. Your issue, the spring has too much tension, and is likely a bit too long as well. You'll need to determine first if it is too long. If replacing with a used spring, it may be too short, not usually a new spring issue. One key piece of this puzzle is the action slide lock itself. It wears and sometimes the tip has to be touched up to restore the angle/shape. Anytime the lock is replaced or altered/repaired/changed, this should be rechecked. I missed the class for that 1897 workshop, I may not have it correct, but that is what I do to set those parts up, YMMV. I am also able to pull the trigger and let the hammer fall before the carrier is completely seated and the slide being locked. I looked at your picture, and the gap, and my take is that is how the 1897 works. Perhaps the point at which the hammer falls with the trigger held can be adjusted to reduce that gap a bit, but to work as designed, that adjustment appears to be in the zone. I'd have to handle the gun to make an accurate evaluation, but on the surface, I'm not seeing an issue. So to answer your question: Is this considered normal? I'm thinking it is normal, with some fine tuning of the spring being required. Old or new style? I prefer the old style as it is a bit gentler, but it still needs to be the correct length and tension. Many parts are in this circuit, the mag tube can have variations. The position of the stop ring on the tube, and in a solid frame, if the tube itself is screwed in correctly. Then you have variations in the slide itself and variations in the lock. I believe that the majority of 1897s built were hand fitted, and not just assembled. You may get lucky, but if any part is replaced, there is a distinct possibility some hand fitting will be required. Resurrecting a neglected 1897 with the odd part needing replacement requires a bit higher pay grade than is required for your regular replace the broken parts repair. A properly working CAS/WB 1897 shotgun is worth more that the piece of neglect on a gunshow vendors table, just saying. But in todays' world, you can expect to overpay. Big Boston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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