Subdeacon Joe Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 80°F, humidity 7%, the pair of Grumman S-2s and the Bech A200 have been screaming back and forth all afternoon, mostly working sometime east of Lake Berryessa. Same for the Sikorski Sil-64 and Si-70. OV-10 has been down in the Oakland Hills area with a bunch of other assets. Plus 3 different air ambulances. God bless their brave, dedicated, and thoroughly insane souls, and may Sts. Michael, Barbara, and Florian intercede for them. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 Prayers up for the boots on the ground too. My son was one of them. 🇺🇸 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 We watched some of the firefighting action on Fox News Live at the restaurant during dinner tonight. Nasty fire! Slim, hope your son and everyone else involved are ok. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 Incoming Air when you are on a wildfire is just wonderful! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, J-BAR #18287 said: We watched some of the firefighting action on Fox News Live at the restaurant during dinner tonight. Nasty fire! Slim, hope your son and everyone else involved are ok. Thanks J-Bar, but he’s no longer on the line. 6-7 years of 16-hour days for 2 weeks at a time. 14-day rolls (deployments), 2 days off, then back at it, May to October. One of the pics below shows how they spent their nights. No showers, porta potties et al. These crews work HARD, which includes hauling their equipment on their backs up 12 - 14,000 elevations He was with the USFS another 10 years until 12/23 and is now living with his wife in Majorca, Spain. (Another story!). He’s still in the wildfire business with a satellite thermal imaging company based in Germany. This wildfire stuff is quite global, but gets little attention in the US press. Pics below are from his time on the ground with the Prescott Hotshots (AZ). He shared many pics, these a just a few of my favorites. Note the ash covering the ground in bottom pic of the guy cutting down the tree. Edited October 19 by Abilene Slim SASS 81783 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 3 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said: God bless their brave, dedicated, and thoroughly insane souls, and may Sts. Michael, Barbara, and Florian intercede for them. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted October 19 Author Share Posted October 19 Yeah, the boots on the ground work like Stakhanovites. I'm not taking anything away from them. Lord knows that their Work Til You Drop Plus Ten Hours ethic saves houses and lives. One of the camps during the Tubbs fire. The Australian contingent was here about 2 days after the start and were some of the last out. I look at the activity mostly to get an idea where things are happening. But watching an S-2, C-130, or DC-10 stand on its wingtip, do a 180, then follow the Pathfinder in and drop over a ridge, to go through the roiling air of a wildfire to make a drop is a special kind of impressive. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said: But watching an S-2, C-130, or DC-10 stand on its wingtip, do a 180, then follow the Pathfinder in and drop over a ridge, to go through the roiling air of a wildfire to make a drop is a special kind of impressive. Somewhere I have some pics of what the air drops look like from the ground and will try to post. My son had more than one load of retardant dropped right on top of him. Not fun! Edited October 19 by Abilene Slim SASS 81783 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted October 19 Author Share Posted October 19 15 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said: Somewhere I have some pics of what the air drops look like from the ground and will try to post. My son had more than one load of retardant dropped right on top of him. Not fun! There are videos on YouTube showing what can happen to vehicles hit with a low, high speed drop. Lots of kinetic energy there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted October 19 Author Share Posted October 19 Cockpit video of a drop. You hear Betty complaining. Training film Just a few weeks ago here in Sonoma County There seems to be a new strategy here of pounding the snot out of fires by air as soon as possible, maybe even before ground crews are on scene. Been a lot of small fires, under 10 acres, that are getting hit early and often, usually starting when no more than an acre. Oct. 15th. Turn around time on the ground was about 15 minutes....I watched on Flightradar24 and was getting notifications from the Watch Duty app. The Muniz was held to about 3 acres due to the combined efforts of ground and air assets. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 Here are a few of the arial pics I mentioned. At the time, P-3 Orions and P-2V Neptunes were common as they had bomb bays which are better suited for dropping retardant as opposed to nozzles where the stuff tends to atomize before hitting the ground. This P-3 clipped some trees. Note the Hotshots on the ground in the first pic. The first two pics were an "Oh s**t" moment for the aircrew, the third image was an "Oh s**t" moment for the ground crew! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 Some helitack pics. I love this Chinook pic. The tube hanging from the Skycrane is a siphon for drawing water from a pond/lake, etc. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted October 19 Author Share Posted October 19 2 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said: Some helitack pics. I love this Chinook pic. The tube hanging from the Skycrane is a siphon for drawing water from a pond/lake, etc. One of those was working the fire in Oakland yesterday. Either during the Tubbs Fire in 2017 or the The Glass Fire in 2020 someone took a video of the Calfire UH-1H dipping out of his swimming pool. And some people complaining about Calfire dipping out of their pools. Idiots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 It occurred to me today that the practice of putting out every little wildfire is what led to the resurgence of the massive fires of the last decade or so. By putting out every single fire as soon as it formed, a vast amount of undergrowth accumulated that eventually became the fuel necessary for record wildfires. How soon we forget. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 8 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said: It occurred to me today that the practice of putting out every little wildfire is what led to the resurgence of the massive fires of the last decade or so. By putting out every single fire as soon as it formed, a vast amount of undergrowth accumulated that eventually became the fuel necessary for record wildfires. How soon we forget. Just ask wildland fire crews what they think of the Smokey the Bear campaign. The other issue is the eco campaign against proper logging. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 (edited) 3 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said: It occurred to me today that the practice of putting out every little wildfire is what led to the resurgence of the massive fires of the last decade or so. By putting out every single fire as soon as it formed, a vast amount of undergrowth accumulated that eventually became the fuel necessary for record wildfires. How soon we forget. Bingo. That’s much discussed in the “Hotshot” documentary I referenced in your thread. It is unfortunately, an old topic that’s never resolved effectively. Our firefighting bureaucracy is also heavily skewed toward saving structures that never should have built in the first place. Not unlike building in flood plains. The more you build, the more you gotta rescue. Adding on, some of the tree-huggers won’t allow the thinning of fuels. One of the fires my son worked took him through a housing development that was 100% destroyed. The Forest Service recommended and offered to thin their development of fuels 2-3 years prior, but the residents said “Nope” because they wanted the area to remain “natural”. Edited October 20 by Abilene Slim SASS 81783 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted October 21 Author Share Posted October 21 Can't get much low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted October 21 Share Posted October 21 i am really sorry this is happening out there , i wish these ill things on no one , might be time for calif to rethink its wild management practices ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted October 21 Author Share Posted October 21 1 minute ago, watab kid said: i am really sorry this is happening out there , i wish these ill things on no one , might be time for calif to rethink its wild management practices ? It's not just California. Most of the western states, and some of the eastern ones suffer from almost a century of misguided management practices. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted October 21 Share Posted October 21 10 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said: It's not just California. Most of the western states, and some of the eastern ones suffer from almost a century of misguided management practices. i agree , this is the one that got posted here but im well aware of the others , i feel just as bad for them , we here have our issues as well l, the wolves and deer and turkeys and ill stop complaining or comparing wildlife to land and timber management because thats one thing we do well here so far , im going to move but i would prefer my wife comes with me - but - she wont leave till the grandbabies are qall of the right age , im not sure what that is yet , but ive got two grandaughters that are 10 , i may not live long enough to move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted October 21 Author Share Posted October 21 16 hours ago, watab kid said: I agree , this is the one that got posted here but im well aware of the others , i feel just as bad for them , I will say that some of the policies in California that are driven by self-anointed environmentalists who rely on Lysenkoist "science" have exacerbated the problem. E.G. during the Glass Fire (Sonoma and Napa Counties) in 2020 there were idjits in, I think, Placer County tree sitting to prevent PG&E from clearing trees from power transmission and distribution line. The State itself sends mixed signals, on the one hand mandating that PG&E keep the lines clear, while on the other hand putting so much burrocracy (sic) in the way so it's almost impossible for PG&E to comply. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted October 21 Share Posted October 21 Don't know for sure if it is true, but recently saw an article about the U.S. Forest Service billing the states when they fight a fire. Millions! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted October 22 Share Posted October 22 3 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said: I will say that some of the policies in California that are driven by self-anointed environmentalists who rely on Lysenkoist "science" have exacerbated the problem. E.G. during the Glass Fire (Sonoma and Napa Counties) in 2020 there were idjits in, I think, Placer County tree sitting to prevent PG&E from clearing trees from power transmission and distribution line. The State itself sends mixed signals, on the one hand mandating that PG&E keep the lines clear, while on the other hand putting so much burrocracy (sic) in the way so it's almost impossible for PG&E to comply. their own worst enemy it seems , im surprised someone hasnt sued the state over lost property , of course the legal hassles will only be more costly in the end , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted October 22 Share Posted October 22 10 hours ago, watab kid said: their own worst enemy it seems , im surprised someone hasnt sued the state over lost property , of course the legal hassles will only be more costly in the end , The state has deflected their share of the blame onto the power companies. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 Posted October 22 Share Posted October 22 7 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said: The state has deflected their share of the blame onto the power companies. ........ and the state wants 'all electric' vehicles' ......... hmmmm ........ fires, started be electric lines, being fought with appliances that have no ICE motive force ....... hmmmmm ...... don't add up, ...... 🙃 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted October 22 Author Share Posted October 22 1 minute ago, Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 said: and the state wants 'all electric' EVERYTHING! Not just vehicles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 Posted October 22 Share Posted October 22 I stand corrected; there IS a firefighting appliance that requires neither ICE nor 'lectric. 'course it won't put out a fire by itself and needs a little human help to perform it's task ...... 🙃 ... and I take my hat off to those who do ...... 🙂 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted October 22 Share Posted October 22 3 hours ago, Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 said: I stand corrected; there IS a firefighting appliance that requires neither ICE nor 'lectric. 'course it won't put out a fire by itself and needs a little human help to perform it's task ...... 🙃 ... and I take my hat off to those who do ...... 🙂 That and a Pulaski like my son used: 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 12 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said: The state has deflected their share of the blame onto the power companies. shoulda seen that coming , what a messed up situation , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 They don't care as long as they benefit. We the people are irrelevant, 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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