9245 Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 What is the cheapest competition legal AND HISTORICALLY ACCURATE lever action on the market? I’m not concerned about fit and finish, just function and historical correctness. Most I seem to find are pushing a thousand dollars and that is just far too much for me to budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 The cheapest is the most expensive in the long run. Many newcomers get a Henry Big Boy because they are available and not as expensive as a Win clone or a marlin. Then they find out they just won’t work for our game. You will be much happier in the long run looking for a decent used cowboy gun than a HBB. A Rossi 92 would be better, but still not “good”. Haunt the SASSWIRE classifieds. Check out the merchants corner. Go to a few matches and let folks know you are looking 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Eagle Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 You can usually find used Rossi '92 for about $500. Not as fast as a 1873, but gets you in the game. That's what I bought, not to get into SASS, but just because I always wanted a pistol caliber lever action. I started looking around for what to do with it after I got it and found out about CAS/SASS, and the rest is history. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 To answer your question: Rossi R92 Use it and upgrade later if you desire. The rifle will always carry a value...it's not like spending $$ at a bar where your $$ ends up down the toilet. Phantom 13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 (edited) ALMOST ANY rifle that you buy to shoot Cowboy Action will be worth more when you decide to sell it, especially if you are patient and find a good used one. Somewhere back over twenty years ago, I bought a nice Rossi ‘92 replica in .45 Colt. I shot it for several years, along with an 1860 Henry replica that my wife bought for me. The first three years or so, I used the ‘92 exclusively, working the Henry into my game gradually after that. I bought a neat little 1873 short rifle on a whim, about the same time that the ‘92 had become exclusively a backup. I still shot it once or twice a year, and I loaned it out to folks looking to get into the game or to a shooter who had a gun failure, just to keep it “limbered up” and as an excuse to clean and service it. I finally sold it after thirteen years when a fellow shooter offered me twice what I had in it! Kinda’ wish I hadn’t!! Most of the sages here will tell you to “buy once and cry once” and I won’t argue that! If you’re on a limited budget, consider the ‘92, but before you buy one, go to a couple of local matches and try everything that you can lay your hands on. Don’t be afraid or ashamed to ask to try someone’s gun! Explain what you’re doing and that you want to see how different guns work. Folks will gladly let you try their equipment. Most of ‘em are proud to do it. Be willing to pay ‘em to replace the ammunition you use. Make that offer up front. Most will eschew the offer, but make it anyway. Don’t be in a hurry to grab the first thing you see or can afford! Shop around, watch the SASS classifieds here on the Wire, and tell others what you’re looking for! You’d be surprised how many nice guns go for great prices around this game!! This game is for fun and entertainment! Patience will reward you with better equipment and thus more fun!! Most fun you can have with your clothes on!! Edited October 17 by Blackwater 53393 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 A pre safety Rossi 92. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 look atpawn shops and gunshops around your area , let the gunsmiths know what you looking for and the price range your in so they can keep their eyes open for you , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Sackett Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 (edited) Get a Rossi 92. That’s what I started with and it’s still my choice. I have had short stroked guns that folks said I would need to be able to shoot fast. I still like the 92. Sold off the “fast” guns. Still shoot the Rossi 92. The reality is that it’s not the gun that keeps me from being the fastest shooter in the posse. It’s me! Transitions from one weapon to the next are one of the bidders time killers. Being accurate is hard to do when you are racing the clock. I don’t think I have ever outrun the Rossi 92 or could blame a slow time on the rifle. Buy what you can afford and get into the game. There is only one with the fastest time, but the rest of us have a good time too. Sam Sackett Edited October 17 by Sam Sackett 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Spade Mikey Wilson Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 My first rifle was a Rossi '92 in a 45 Colt because it was what I could afford at the time. I shot it for a couple of years until I could afford a Uberti '73. Then my wife shot the Rossi for a couple of years after that. I still have that Rossi, and I can attest to the fact that it has never given me a lick of problem in all the years it was used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 If you buy a Rossi '92 try to buy one of the stainless steel models. It will be better for rainy days. I started with a '92 but found I could run a Marlin or '73 faster. The '92 is now used for side matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 13 hours ago, 9245 said: What is the cheapest competition legal AND HISTORICALLY ACCURATE lever action on the market? I’m not concerned about fit and finish, just function and historical correctness. Most I seem to find are pushing a thousand dollars and that is just far too much for me to budget. The Rossi 92 would be the cheapest and most historically accurate, it’ll get ya going until you upgrade as others have said!🤠 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 We bought several used Marlin 1894s before Marlin was bought out by Remington. Some in $400 range. But then they just disappeared from gunshops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 5 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said: We bought several used Marlin 1894s before Marlin was bought out by Remington. Some in $400 range. But then they just disappeared from gunshops. And...they are NOT the least expensive...not by a long shot! Therefore irrelevant to the topic. But...at least you got to post a picture. 😆 Phantom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Sackett Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 Ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 1 hour ago, Sam Sackett said: Ha! Ha! Ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted October 18 Share Posted October 18 Ha HA HA HA HA Oh: PLUS ONE for Phantom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilli GaHoot Galoot Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 In my experience the cheapest one will be the one that gets listed for sale right after you bought a more expensive one 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 (edited) On 10/16/2024 at 8:22 PM, 9245 said: What is the cheapest competition legal AND HISTORICALLY ACCURATE lever action on the market? I’m not concerned about fit and finish, just function and historical correctness. Most I seem to find are pushing a thousand dollars and that is just far too much for me to budget. Historically accurate? Historically accurate is a sliding scale, upon whose slopes many will slide down. As for "new production"... The Marlin 1894 will be most physically similar to ones produced when introduced. Except for that name thing. The Rossi R92 will be very similar in size, but its shape is different than those produced by Winchester. The Uberti 1860 & 1866 are both dimensionally incorrect, having had the carrier mortise stretched to accommodate 1.6" OAL ammo. I one believes Henry's advertising hype, their "Original Henry" is the most dimensionally similar, however, don't believe it, as their frame is also lengthened to allow for the .44-40 cartridge. Miroku produced 1866s also have lengthened frames to accept 1.6" length AOL cartridges. Theirs and Uberti's 1873 is likely the most correct dimensionally, but both have slight alterations to size and operational components. The Miroku has a slightly shorter stroke than original winchester 1873s, and also differ in subtle ways from the original. The Winchester mdl 94 was first produced in a pistol cartridge in its original configuration in 1969, in 44 Mag. Later produced in 45 Colt beginning in 1985, but in its 94AE abomination. The Winchester 94 or 94AE are not very well suited for this game, what with their "my guts fall out and have to be stuffed back in with every stroke of the lever", leading to a clunky and disjointed feel to the action. .In my estimation, the least expensive will depend on how confident and skilled you are with common hand tools so that you can perform the tweaks and modifications necessary to bring the firearm of your choice into good tune and replace heavy springs with lighter aftermarket ones or modify the factory springs to your satisfaction. Its also necessary to smooth the rough edges on machined surfaces to negate the need for the heavy springs in its factory form. For adding the cost of hiring such work done on top of the purchase price will drive most all of them out of the "cost effective" category. Even if you don't currently have the knowledge necessary to perform such work, there are guides and videos on the internet to give you good guidance in doing the work yourself. Just be careful in whose advice you seek. The 1873 clones are the easiest to work on, IMO, the side plates simply hung on the outside of the frame, unlike the 1860 & 1866 which have them sliding in mortises, otherwise, both are the same in internals as the 1873. Simply replacing the lever/carrier arm, main & trigger block springs will lighten the action sufficiently to make it a real dream to shoot. Fitting a short stroke kit will bring it to a new level of operation. Same can be said of the 1860 & 1866. Judicious stoning of mating surfaces will also enhance the operation. Rossi R92 has the least aftermarket parts available for it, and probably the hardest to work on, tho' with a good guide, not overly complex. Its biggest drawback is that no one has successfully shortened its lever stroke; but, again judicious stoning of mating surfaces and lightening the mainspring and ejector spring will make it much smoother in operation. To the point at which in the hands of a skilled operator, it can be very competitive, speedwise. Maybe not quite as fast as a slicked up '73, but... to the point where most folks won't out run them. There you have the sum of my nearly 39 years of playing with these guns in this game. I have very few trips to the winner's podium, but... I also don't indulge in the one area that is absolutely critical to make such trips possible: Practice. Edited October 20 by Griff 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 (edited) As Griff says, Historically Accurate is on a sliding scale. The Winchester Model 1892 replicas are a good buy for the money, but lever action rifles were NEVER chambered for 45 Colt until quite recently, the mid 1980s if I recall correctly. Originally Winchester 92s were chambered for 44-40, 38-40, 32-20, 25-20, and 218 Bee. But never for 45 Colt until quite recently. So it depends on how Historically Accurate you want to be. And of course, the bottle neck cartridges such as 44-40, 38-40, 32-20, and 25-20 are a bit fussier to reload than a straight walled case such as 45 Colt. I have been reloading 44-40 for a bazillion years, and I do not consider it difficult as some do, but it does require a bit more finesse than loading a straight walled cartridge such as 45 Colt. And there are no carbide dies for any of the bottle neck cartridges, as there are for straight walled cartridges such as 45 Colt, which makes things a tad more complicated when loading them. Case lube is a must. I own no rifles chambered for 45 Colt. I own lots chambered for 44-40, a few chambered for 38-40 and 32-20. This is the rifle I started CAS with over 20 years ago. A Winchester Model 1892 chambered for 44-40, that shipped in 1897. I got it for a good price because it had been refinished. Don't ask how much, I don't remember. A Model 1892 Carbine, also chambered for 44-40. This one shipped around 1918. A really nice Model 1892 chambered for 32-20. Notice the octagon barrel. It shipped in 1911. My notes say I paid $1100 for it a few years ago. I bought this wonderful old Marlin Model 1894 a bazillion years ago, no idea what I paid for it. It left the factory in 1895 and is chambered for 44-40. This is my Uberti 'iron frame' Henry. This is the rifle I use most often in CAS. I got it for $800 on sale about 10 years ago. As Griff says, none of the Henry replicas are Historically Accurate because the originals were chambered for the diminutive 44 Henry Rimfire cartridge. The modern replicas, both Uberti and Henry Repeating Arms have all had their frames stretched slightly to accommodate the longer 45 Colt or 44-40 ammunition. Mine is a 44-40. Is it Historically Accurate? No. Ask me if I care. This photo shows the relative lengths, left to right, of the 44 Henry Rimfire cartridge, 44-40, 38-40, and 32-20. This illustrates why the frame of the modern replica Henry rifles had to be stretched a bit, to accommodate a longer carrier. Edited October 19 by Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 Wasn't one of the elements that the OP was concerned with was "cheapest"? Phantom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 3 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Wasn't one of the elements that the OP was concerned with was "cheapest"? Phantom Plastic copies will be the cheapest... but entirely unsuited for our game. Therefor I didn't include any reference to them. 🤫 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 2 minutes ago, Griff said: Plastic copies will be the cheapest... but entirely unsuited for our game. Therefor I didn't include any reference to them. 🤫 The "cheapest" requirement wasn't the only criteria...so...your response confuses me. Phantom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 many times a cheap used rifle , will end up costing a bunch more Chickasaw (been there , done that ) Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 16 minutes ago, Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 said: many times a cheap used rifle , will end up costing a bunch more Chickasaw (been there , done that ) Bill Many times...but certainly not always. And then...those costly rifles can end up costing you a lot as well. Mechanical things have a way about them that can end up costing the owner $$$$. So all things being equal... Phantom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn Through Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 I'd just keep checking gun broker for a used whatever you decide on in a lever gun, I bought mine from there 8 years ago for 650 I think 44-40 Uberti 73 had been stroked standard and beat to thunder on the wood but I striped it down and it looked good enough for me to beat around in this game , just shot it today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 8 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Wasn't one of the elements that the OP was concerned with was "cheapest"? Phantom Yeah, but he capitalized HISTORICALLY ACCURATE, so I took it that he emphasized Historically Accurate more than cheapest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 9 hours ago, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said: Yeah, but he capitalized HISTORICALLY ACCURATE, so I took it that he emphasized Historically Accurate more than cheapest. And he said... "Most I seem to find are pushing a thousand dollars and that is just far too much for me to budget." And you said... "Is it Historically Accurate? No. Ask me if I care." But ya got pictures of your rifles out there...never understood why folks post pictures of their firearms on open format Social Media. Cheers! Phantom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted October 21 Share Posted October 21 (edited) the cheapest will be the one you shop around for and find in a pwn shop or small gun shop or such , or a fellow cowboy looking to sell to another cowboy [not all of us care as much of the money as much as helping our fellowcowboys ] you will get one if you work at it - it doesnt just fall in your lap , i started with the replica win they mentioned up front here and shot it a long while - it worked fine and i still have it , it might get needed again , i do recomend a backup when one can be afforder , nothing worse than a rifle down half way thru a state match ....dont ask , thankfully there are those better equipped when you are less so , but i swore to be better prepared in the future , now i am , Edited October 21 by watab kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey James Posted October 21 Share Posted October 21 Being newish I did a lot of reading and saw that most people shot 73's. I got sticker shock on the price of a new one but I bought one anyhow. Little did I know, for them to be great, needs a lot of Gunsmithing (Currently being worked). In the mean time, I bought a R92 in 357 (stainless) and a spring kit from Lee's Gunsmithing and shot it in a couple of matches with no issues. After speaking with Slater about the new Ruger/Marlins at a match, You guessed it....I bought one of those in 357 also and have been shooting it since. Not that the Rossi was bad, I just prefer the Marlin. All this being said, the R92 is a good gun for the money if you are wanting to stay well under 1k. I plan on keeping mine as a backup to the Marlin and my '73 (once I get it back) will be used in Wild Bunch/Classic Cowboy matches. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted October 21 Share Posted October 21 (edited) You could skip the impostors and buy an original. I've got a couple. But they are few and far between and usually costly. Marlin 1889 in 44WCF. Edited October 21 by Warden Callaway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted October 21 Share Posted October 21 Someone mentioned the Winchester 94. The 94 gets a bad rap, and in all truth, it is not the best suited for our game, but in my opinion, a pre-83 .44 Magnum with no angle eject, safeties or other abominations is at least "workable." Here is a a video of me shooting one of those rifles. Please ignore my issues with the shotgun. For comparison, here is a video of me shooting a pre-safety Rossi 92 in the same caliber. Again, please ignore my shotgun issues. This is as close as you will get to an apples to apples comparison if the 2 rifles. Both are in the same caliber, both have 20" round barrels, and both have not had their designs "messed with" but modern features. The Winchester is stock, the Rossi has had minimal action work done to it by Happy Trails to smooth it out a little. As you can see, I am equally slow with both rifles, but didn't have any issues with either. It has been said that the 94's issues begin to arise when you try to run it too fast. So maybe, that'll never be an issue for me. It'll never be my go to gun, but I didn't have any problems with it. But, finding one of these pre-83 94's is not exactly easy. But using "cheapest" to mean least expensive, not lowest quality, and keeping the historically accurate criteria, I'd still recommend a used Rossi 92, pre-safety. (Which of course, is what you see in the second video.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Hazzard, SASS #23254 Posted October 21 Share Posted October 21 (edited) I'd certainly agree with the folks suggesting the Rossi 92 is your best bet. They're reasonably priced and mechanically up to the demands of the game. I'm not sure the pre or post safety thing is a thing since the safety is easily made irrelevant. Buy one in your chosen caliber, get it "slicked up" and you're in business. You'll know soon enough when the rifle is holding back your progression and then you can almost certainly sell or trade it toward something "better". Edited October 21 by Major Hazzard, SASS #23254 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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