Bad happening at loading table.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Such a shooter would not be welcome again on a range I was in charge of.  What happened to the Cowboy Way?  GJ

[Eyesa Horg]

53 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Such a shooter would not be welcome again on a range I was in charge of.  What happened to the Cowboy Way?  GJ

I believe @Phantom, SASS #54973 has pointed this out on occasion. Sad indeed.

[Texas Maverick]

On 9/16/2024 at 11:09 PM, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said:

Uncontrolled Discharge.

Uncontrolled discharge (also known as “Accidental Discharge/AD”) is defined as any discharge of a firearm that was not controlled or intended by the shooter, either by accidental discharge or by shooting a round in an unsafe manner (e.g., over the berm). - - A round over the berm carries varying penalties.  Site specific match & range rules establish the penalty, up to and possibly including a Match Disqualification. Uncontrolled discharges have penalties: o Any discharge that hits the ground or non-expendable stage prop 5 – 10 feet from the shooter: Stage Disqualification. o Any discharge that hits the ground or non-expendable stage prop less than five feet from the shooter, any discharge at the loading or unloading areas, any discharge off the firing line, or any discharge that is deemed unsafe result in a Match Disqualification. SHB page 27

Doesn't really matter why, only that it happened.

Hope everyone is ok

Regards

    

Gateway Kid

That brings up a question in my mind since the TO usually hands off a broken gun to another shooter at our matches to assist in unloading and assessing the problem. What happens if there is a accidental discharge while that person is handling the gun trying to unload it? Does that person get the MDQ?

 

TM

Edited September 18 by Texas Maverick

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

1 minute ago, Texas Maverick said:

That brings up a question in my mind since the TO usually hands off a broken gun to another shooter to assist in unloading and assessing the problem. What happens if there is a accidental discharge while that person is handling the gun trying to unload it? Does that person get the MDQ?

 

TM

 

"Any discharge in a safe direction after stage engagement during the process 
of correcting a malfunction by a gunsmith or reasonably competent person 
will not be penalized." 

SHB p.28

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

Anyone who thinks a gun can't go off by "itself" while being handled, and thinks you have to pull the trigger, REALLY needs to look closely inside their firearm. Hammers are held back by basically a sliver of metal on the sear/trigger. As much as most of us shoot, this part wears quite a bit compared to most firearms. This usually makes the trigger pull lighter and lighter until it just won't hold the hammer any longer, and bumping the gun may be enough to release the hammer.  Which is why, as I told my kids and wife, you must NEVER point a gun at anything you don't want to destroy. YOU are the main safety on any firearm.    OK, semi-rant over.

[Rip Snorter]

A gun on a table or in a rack free from human or other physical manipulation just does not go off.  Fire is about the only possibility.

[Texas Maverick]

19 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

"Any discharge in a safe direction after stage engagement during the process 
of correcting a malfunction by a gunsmith or reasonably competent person 
will not be penalized." 

SHB p.28

thanks

 

TM

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

Rip: no kidding, but the OP and I said while working on the gun, in this case, to clear rounds. Certainly a lot of motion going on during this action. Lever being levered, hammer being shoved back, sear engaging and dis-engaging. LOTS of human induced movement.

[Hoss]

1 hour ago, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

Anyone who thinks a gun can't go off by "itself" while being handled, and thinks you have to pull the trigger, REALLY needs to look closely inside their firearm. Hammers are held back by basically a sliver of metal on the sear/trigger. As much as most of us shoot, this part wears quite a bit compared to most firearms. This usually makes the trigger pull lighter and lighter until it just won't hold the hammer any longer, and bumping the gun may be enough to release the hammer.  Which is why, as I told my kids and wife, you must NEVER point a gun at anything you don't want to destroy. YOU are the main safety on any firearm.    OK, semi-rant over.

As my Uncle taught me, and I’ve taught my kids and wife YOU ARE THE ONLY SAFETY ON ANY FIREARM 

[Hoss]

Here are some pictures of the damage. Shooter did not think his bullet would/could have caused this damage. 
 

[Rip Snorter]

It wasn't the pixies!  If I have a gun I am handling go off, I am responsible for the damage!  Safe direction always, people and other living creatures first, stuff second. but relevant.

[Texas Lightning McQueen]

Thanks @Hoss I was wondering on the question. If as a Cowboy Action Shooter with Knowledge of The Sprit of the Game. when a person would do this to your rifle accidently while unloading a rifle at the loading table because the current stage we were at was not the next stage. would you? 

 

A. Pretend nothing happen.

B. Not tell the owner of the rifle and hope they would not notice.

C. If asked if they think the Match DQ and the unattended miss fire may have done this damage the rifle that was laying next to him at the table? Say I don't think it was my shot'

D. Offer not to pay? 

E. Agree with the person that maybe it was a ricochet from a near by target.

 

I was the one that hear the shot approached the table as the smoking cartridge was ejected and informed the Timer Operator or Posse RO and was the causer of his DQ. I just did not notice the rifle loading magazine until it was time to load, By then the person had already picked up and left toward his vehicle. 

Edited September 18 by Texas Lightning McQueen
added picture

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Texas Lightning McQueen said:

Thanks @Hoss I was wondering on the question. If as a Cowboy Action Shooter with Knowledge of The Sprit of the Game. when a person would do this to your rifle accidently while unloading a rifle at the loading table because the current stage we were at was not the next stage. would you? 

 

A. Pretend nothing happen.

B. Not tell the owner of the rifle and hope they would not notice.

C. If asked if they think the Match DQ and the unattended miss fire may have done this damage the rifle that was laying next to him at the table? Say I don't think it was my shot'

D. Offer not to pay? 

E. Agree with the person that maybe it was a ricochet from a near by target.

 

I was the one that hear the shot approached the table as the smoking cartridge was ejected and informed the Timer Operator or Posse RO and was the causer of his DQ. I just did not notice the rifle loading magazine until it was time to load, By then the person had already picked up and left toward his vehicle. 

Heyya Lightning!

 

The guy/gal should pay...that rifle if used on the previous stage would not have allowed the 10 rounds to be loaded. Therefore the damage happened...when? Best and most reasonable conclusion would be when the negligent discharge happened.

 

Unless it was a friend of mine...then he's innocent...😜

 

All kidding aside...which is always hard for me, I would press him/her for the money.

 

Phantom

[Dapper Dave]

I would have sold something to pay for that, if I didn't have cash on me at the time. I make the mess; I clean it up. 

Edited September 18 by Dapper Dave

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Lightning, so it was your rifle that got damaged?  Bummer.  Hopefully you can find a charcoal blue mag tube somewhere, that could be difficult.  But at least Uberti uses the same size magazine for all calibers, so that might help.  

 

Hopefully the perpetrator didn't realize the damage he had done and will do the right thing when he finds out.

[Texas Lightning McQueen]

@Abilene, SASS # 27489 It was the slick up 1873 Cimarron rifle Tha Kid and I share. It a 18 inch barrel so the loading tube is a rare 17 inch. Sarah Hennessey help me in getting at lest a 20 inch replacement, Will see how it looks once it arrives and hopefully it will all work out before Regionals. I tried to fix it but the barrel also had a aluminum center tube from factory and it was hard to get the ding out.

[Texas Lightning McQueen]

It all happened at almost the last stage after a very hot morning, so we all were kind of dazed and confused. As a shooter it bombed me out that the person would no acknowledge hat maybe it could have been his unattended mis fire. But he was adamant it was not his fault even after I showed him the rifle. Can make some people be responsible, just move on lesson learned (not posse with the fellow anymore) 

 

 

Edited September 19 by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
remove quoted text

[Eyesa Horg]

2 hours ago, Hoss said:

Here are some pictures of the damage. Shooter did not think his bullet would/could have caused this damage. 
 

Yup, lotsa Pards bring rifles like that to line! How da heck did he think it happened and where'd the bullet ricochet to?

[Eyesa Horg]

I'm truly in disbelief over the Pard that had the AD, not doing the right thing. Wow!

[Cypress Sun]

Lets see. 

 

Shooter discharges a round that strikes another person's rifle at the loading table and then denies causing the damage to the rifle. I would call this person negligent, dangerous, irresponsible and a few other things that can't be printed here.

 

I sure as hell wouldn't want to shoot with this person and if I had anything to do with the range and/or match, this person would be banned from the match/range for life.

[Scarlett]

On 9/17/2024 at 8:23 AM, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

This makes unloading much safer. 

Thanks Barleycorn! I was gonna say that this is one way to easily avoid issue - AND makes it easy to clear jams…AND makes it easy to keep mag tube clean because you can get to it easily. 
 

I have been present at two matches recently where OLD ammo - one cartridge - was stuck in mag tube unbeknownst to shooters…. They finally “came loose” at loading table… MDQ and HUGE scare to those involved. Mag tubes MUST be kept clean! And, when I worked the ULT this weekend at Heluva Ruckus, I looked for the follower of EVERY rifle in addition to shooter racking lever. 
 

My

husband calls the negligent too.
 

Hugs! 
Scarlett

[Cholla]

I am hoping the person gets over their embarrassment and does the right thing. Was he a long time shooter, well known, or a newbie?

[John Kloehr]

I would pay for the damage. I would feel worse about pointing my rifle where it could even do the damage in the first place. I sure would not deny doing it. How the [expletive] else would it have happened?

 

Not sure this fits in Spirit of the Game or the Cowboy Way. More simply a matter of honor and personal responsibility. Denying it prevents owning it which further prevents improvement. A matter of attitude and approach to life. But I'm getting old, I have had a chance to learn and understand these things.

 

Getting ready for a local club gun club event today, .22lr rifle. Time to go inspect my target, I remove the magazine, visually inspect the chamber, install the mag block, and point the rifle down range but NOT IN LINE WITH THE TARGET! This because that is where I am going to walk.

 

The main difference in my mind between an AD and an ND is pulling the trigger. Intention does not matter. And where a round goes does not matter either. But there is a sport I shoot in which calls a round sent safely into the berm between targets as a result of pulling the trigger an AD. It is not and AD, it is an ND.

 

I believe in "owning" the arms under my control. Still concerned about a round going off when levering them out of the magazine, this should be fine and safe. But one more reason to keep the gun in a safe direction. Absolutely when manipulating it, I even do the same even when leaving it sit on the bench. Like today.

Edited September 19 by John Kloehr