Pat Riot Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 13 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: Maybe you can also post a screen shot of the 240 grain bullets. Here ya go. By the way, I wasn’t posting to prove your loads. I was posting to show El Chapo that Hodgdon doesn’t start at 10% low. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted September 26 Author Share Posted September 26 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Pat Riot said: Here ya go. By the way, I wasn’t posting to prove your loads. I was posting to show El Chapo that Hodgdon doesn’t start at 10% low. My bad PR. My previous post wasn't in response to you or any thing you said. Sorri! I'm trying to understand why others find it necessary to disparage my test, The shooting results are what they are, plain and simple. If someone don't like the manner in which I test or the results, it still doesn't change the facts of those results. Thanks for posting the extra screen shot. Have a good day. ..........Widder Edited September 26 by Widder, SASS #59054 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Chapo Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 9 hours ago, Pat Riot said: Here ya go. By the way, I wasn’t posting to prove your loads. I was posting to show El Chapo that Hodgdon doesn’t start at 10% low. I never said they did, in fact, I said just the opposite. H110 isn't loaded like a normal powder with a 10% reduction for a start load and a maximum load. It has published loads in a narrow range based on very specific component selection. Which is all the more reason why shortening a piece of brass meant to operate at 65,000 PSI and putting a 45 Colt load in it, even a Ruger Only one, is dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted September 27 Author Share Posted September 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, El Chapo said: Which is all the more reason why shortening a piece of brass meant to operate at 65,000 PSI and putting a 45 Colt load in it, even a Ruger Only one, is dangerous. Howdy El Chapo. Your concern is a valid concern. And, its is one I verified years back when I started using shortened Casull brass in my .45 Colt hot loads. Here is my data concerning the case capacities which many who are following this thread will be surprised. I used a powder trickler to OVERFLOW each case, and then I skimmed off the top with a straight edge so that each case was full to its maximum WITHOUT being a compressed powder charge. Each charge was weighed using my Ohaus 1010 scale, which is a very accurate scale. The brass was not weighed...... only the powder capacity. For H-110 powder in the .45 Colt brass, full case capacity was 42.6 grains. For H-110 powder in the shortened .454 Casull brass, full case capacity was 43.4 grains..... an advantage of .8 of a grain. For Lilgun powder in the .45 Colt brass, full case capacity was 39.9 grains. For Lilgun powder in the shortened .454 Casull brass, full case capacity was 41.0 grains.....an advantage of 1.1 grains. EDIT: All the brass was resized using the same Redding, carbide die. This eliminated any variances in the brass in resizing. In reality, there is more capacity inside the shortened Casull brass than the .45 Colt brass. So any excessive pressures that might have been a concern from using the shortened Casull brass has been no concern for me. In the past 50 years, I've done a lot of testing with my reloads, including powder capacity, bullet seating depth, crimp security, flash hole uniformity and many other aspects of reloading. Like I've stated before, I don't get into Wildcat loading but rather try very hard to check out all aspects of my reloads, ESPECIALLY when working with loads such as Hot .45 Colt fodder and my .460 Rowland reloads. Thanks for bringing up the 'case capacity' topic, which has allowed me to post my information on the brass. ..........Widder Edited September 27 by Widder, SASS #59054 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted September 27 Author Share Posted September 27 More info on the brass: If you look down inside Starline .454 Casull brass, you will see the brass has a small recess in the bottom, around the primer flash hole area. This is probably why the Casull brass has more volume than .45 Colt brass. The numbers above indicate that LESS pressures are likely obtained using Casull brass than with .45 Colt brass when using the same data for 'HOT .45 Colt' loads. ..........Widder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 8 hours ago, El Chapo said: I never said they did, in fact, I said just the opposite. H110 isn't loaded like a normal powder with a 10% reduction for a start load and a maximum load. It has published loads in a narrow range based on very specific component selection. Apologies. I apparently misread your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Chapo Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 9 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: Howdy El Chapo. Your concern is a valid concern. And, its is one I verified years back when I started using shortened Casull brass in my .45 Colt hot loads. Here is my data concerning the case capacities which many who are following this thread will be surprised. I used a powder trickler to OVERFLOW each case, and then I skimmed off the top with a straight edge so that each case was full to its maximum WITHOUT being a compressed powder charge. Each charge was weighed using my Ohaus 1010 scale, which is a very accurate scale. The brass was not weighed...... only the powder capacity. For H-110 powder in the .45 Colt brass, full case capacity was 42.6 grains. For H-110 powder in the shortened .454 Casull brass, full case capacity was 43.4 grains..... an advantage of .8 of a grain. For Lilgun powder in the .45 Colt brass, full case capacity was 39.9 grains. For Lilgun powder in the shortened .454 Casull brass, full case capacity was 41.0 grains.....an advantage of 1.1 grains. EDIT: All the brass was resized using the same Redding, carbide die. This eliminated any variances in the brass in resizing. In reality, there is more capacity inside the shortened Casull brass than the .45 Colt brass. So any excessive pressures that might have been a concern from using the shortened Casull brass has been no concern for me. In the past 50 years, I've done a lot of testing with my reloads, including powder capacity, bullet seating depth, crimp security, flash hole uniformity and many other aspects of reloading. Like I've stated before, I don't get into Wildcat loading but rather try very hard to check out all aspects of my reloads, ESPECIALLY when working with loads such as Hot .45 Colt fodder and my .460 Rowland reloads. Thanks for bringing up the 'case capacity' topic, which has allowed me to post my information on the brass. ..........Widder I was actually going to try to shorten an old 454 case to check for you before you posted this. a 2-3% difference in volume isn't a big deal. Usually I use water to do the same type of test with a dropper. I'm honestly surprised they're that close, but that's why it's good to measure, as sometimes the truth is a surprise. I may very well do the same with my future "Ruger Only" loads as the small primer and brass designed for higher pressures gives a margin of safety. I suppose if Elmer Keith was shooting these loads in old Colts we have little to worry about? Sixguns is a good read. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted September 27 Author Share Posted September 27 El Chapo, if you can, let me know if the .454 brass you have also has the slightly recessed area around the flash hole. I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing its designed that way because of the smaller primer pocket. I once read that original .454 Casull brass used large pistol primers but Dick Casull decided that small primers were better suited for the higher pressures generated by the .454 My guess is that my Hot .45 loads generate LESS pressures than my .44 Mag loads. ..........Widder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted September 28 Author Share Posted September 28 Hey PatRiot, when are you gonna load up some 'thunder boomers' and let us know what you think about em? ..........Widder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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