Speed rifle side match

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Is a lightning considered as in the same class as a lever action ?

thanks

—Dawg

[Griff]

Ask the match director... but technically is the speed match for "main match" rifles, or just pistol cartridge lever action?

[Assassin]

If one can run a Lightnin' as quick as a lever doubt there would be any complaints.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

1 hour ago, Assassin said:

If one can run a Lightnin' as quick as a lever doubt there would be any complaints.

 

I am faster with a Lighting than I am with any levergun.   BUT, I am not a top tier shooter.   That being said, I have seen some really great shooters who run run off 10 rounds from a Lightning in less than 3 seconds.

General speaking, the speed rifle matches are done with main match rifles, and the the Lightning is legal for that.

Of course, unless you've got a dump target, in the hands of an expert, I'd say the best lever shooter and the best Lightning shooters would be on par with each other.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

2 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

That being said, I have seen some really great shooters who run run off 10 rounds from a Lightning in less than 3 seconds.

What exactly do you mean by "Some"?

 

Phantom

[Kid Rich]

9 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

What exactly do you mean by "Some"?

 

Phantom

More than one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

kR

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

2 hours ago, Kid Rich said:

More than one.

 

Yeah, that would be a good definition of "Some."   Other possible ways to put it would be "a few."

Heck, when shooting at a large dump target, I can do 10 rounds in about 3.something seconds.   But that's highly unusual!

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

3 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

Yeah, that would be a good definition of "Some."   Other possible ways to put it would be "a few."

Heck, when shooting at a large dump target, I can do 10 rounds in about 3.something seconds.   But that's highly unusual!

Yes...a generic definition.

 

However, I ask what "YOU MEANT" when you said " I have seen some really great shooters...".

 

So...what did you mean?

 

Phantom

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

3 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Yes...a generic definition.

 

However, I ask what "YOU MEANT" when you said " I have seen some really great shooters...".

 

So...what did you mean?

 

Phantom

 

I have seen some Lighting shooters handle the rifle very fast.   Some on video, some live standing right on the line as I watch.   It's always fun to watch.   I've probably seen about a dozen or so over the years.  It's a good gun, but you either love it or hate it.  Those who love it do well, those who hate it, use a lever gun and do well with that.    I understand it's more popular in Ohio, which makes sense as that is where Lassiter is from.  Around here in New England, I don't see very many of them.   I am one of the few that uses one on a regular basis.  I get told that I run it well, whatever that means.   

That's all there is to it.   You can take what I say literally.   At times I do admit to being "generic" in my descriptions, as I don't want to get the details wrong, but am always happy to clarify if specifically asked for specifics.    

That last sentence brought to you by the department of redundancy department.   

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

5 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

I have seen some Lighting shooters handle the rifle very fast.   Some on video, some live standing right on the line as I watch.   It's always fun to watch.   I've probably seen about a dozen or so over the years.  It's a good gun, but you either love it or hate it.  Those who love it do well, those who hate it, use a lever gun and do well with that.    I understand it's more popular in Ohio, which makes sense as that is where Lassiter is from.  Around here in New England, I don't see very many of them.   I am one of the few that uses one on a regular basis.  I get told that I run it well, whatever that means.   

That's all there is to it.   You can take what I say literally.   At times I do admit to being "generic" in my descriptions, as I don't want to get the details wrong, but am always happy to clarify if specifically asked for specifics.    

That last sentence brought to you by the department of redundancy department.   

 

The lightning rifle is far from ideal for the vast majority in this game. Few folks shoot them well...

 

Often times new people will get on this forum and gather info. that can be extremely biased and sometimes just plan wrong and think all is good. These new folks will look at a member's SASS number and think...based on how "low" it is, that the responder is knowledgeable. 

 

I personally can only think of a small handful of competitive shooters that make the Lightning Rifle run well.

 

Phantom

PS: My initial post was specific.

[July Smith]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thing Prairie Dawg is asking if Lightnings are given their own category in the scoring breakdown within the speed rifle side match.  Sort of like how fastest shotgun gets broken down into fastest SxS, 97, and 87.

 

To answer the OP's question I have never seen the Lighting given its own category.  Why would anyone want to compete in a side match with one or two competitors?

 

I believe I have only ever seen two Lightnings used at SASS matches in person.  They functioned but were not fast compared to even a middle of the pack 66/73 shooter. 

 

 

[Frontier Lone Rider]

I have shot with Lassiter and yes, he can run a lightning.  This Spring he had one malfunction, no problem, he just pulled out another to shoot while he was fixing the 1st one.

 

I agree that the lightning is a main match rifle, therefore it should be in the same category as a lever action rifle.

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

1 hour ago, July Smith said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thing Prairie Dawg is asking if Lightnings are given their own category in the scoring breakdown within the speed rifle side match.  Sort of like how fastest shotgun gets broken down into fastest SxS, 97, and 87.

 

To answer the OP's question I have never seen the Lighting given its own category.  Why would anyone want to compete in a side match with one or two competitors?

 

I believe I have only ever seen two Lightnings used at SASS matches in person.  They functioned but were not fast compared to even a middle of the pack 66/73 shooter. 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Frontier Lone Rider said:

I have shot with Lassiter and yes, he can run a lightning.  This Spring he had one malfunction, no problem, he just pulled out another to shoot while he was fixing the 1st one.

 

I agree that the lightning is a main match rifle, therefore it should be in the same category as a lever action rifle.

 

Thanks guys for your answers to the original question.
It will help at our annual match, when 2 shooters who shoot lightnings will compete in the side matches.

--Dawg

[Griff]

8 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

...These new folks will look at a member's SASS number and think...based on how "low" it is, that the responder is knowledgeable. 

Hey!!!... I resemble that remark... but... only resemble... I'm knowledgeable, just not fast.  The ultimate "do as I say, not as I do".  Practice MORE... BETTER... Get a coach, video yourself, correct what you're doing wrong.  Then practice a LOT MORE!  When you think you've practiced enough... you HAVEN'T!  If you're not practicing EVERYTHING, you're not practicing enough.  If you don't practice at speed...  There's a theme here...   

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

12 minutes ago, Griff said:

Hey!!!... I resemble that remark... but... only resemble... I'm knowledgeable, just not fast.  The ultimate "do as I say, not as I do".  Practice MORE... BETTER... Get a coach, video yourself, correct what you're doing wrong.  Then practice a LOT MORE!  When you think you've practiced enough... you HAVEN'T!  If you're not practicing EVERYTHING, you're not practicing enough.  If you don't practice at speed...  There's a theme here...   

That's all well and good...I'm more referring to the folks that have really very little practical knowledge that make strong statements. New folks assume that because they have a low badge number that they must know what they are talking about.

 

Oy...Social Media...

 

Phantom

[Kid Rich]

Ya got the other side of the coin also, some folks think the only thing that makes ya knowledgeable is if ya shoot fast. I have seen folks that are fast with high member numbers that think they know everything. If they stay in the game they MIGHT learn something later on but first they got to realize they don't know diddly.

kR

PS No I'm not referencing anyone that's in this conversation so far.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Kid Rich said:

Ya got the other side of the coin also, some folks think the only thing that makes ya knowledgeable is if ya shoot fast. I have seen folks that are fast with high member numbers that think they know everything. If they stay in the game they MIGHT learn something later on but first they got to realize they don't know diddly.

kR

PS No I'm not referencing anyone that's in this conversation so far.

Shooting fast is meaningless...in and of itself.

 

But there are folks here that either have shot just a few matches or no matches in years. Basically their the SASS version of the 40 year old living at home in the basement. Nobody know this...new shooter takes their advice thinking they must know something about the game...and they really don't.

 

Let's not make this about Fast/Gamer vs. Others.

 

Phantom

[Hoss]

20 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

The lightning rifle is far from ideal for the vast majority in this game. Few folks shoot them well...

 

Often times new people will get on this forum and gather info. that can be extremely biased and sometimes just plan wrong and think all is good. These new folks will look at a member's SASS number and think...based on how "low" it is, that the responder is knowledgeable. 

 

I personally can only think of a small handful of competitive shooters that make the Lightning Rifle run well.

 

Phantom

PS: My initial post was specific.

What exactly do you mean by "few "?

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

2 minutes ago, Hoss said:

What exactly do you mean by "few "?

Subtleties...I know you're trying to be cute Hoss...

 

I didn't say I know Few that use the Lightning...though this would have been true as well. And then...of course when compared to the word "some" which can mean "many" or "Few"...the word "few" does not have this wide quantity definition.

 

You...as much as anyone...should know that Words matter.

 

Phantom

[Griff]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

What exactly do you mean by "few "?

Why Hoss... you know that a few is more than a couple, but less than several.  It usually takes less than 2 hands to illustrate.  BTW, I'm still enjoying that Lightning I got off you!

[Hoss]

2 hours ago, Griff said:

Why Hoss... you know that a few is more than a couple, but less than several.  It usually takes less than 2 hands to illustrate.  BTW, I'm still enjoying that Lightning I got off you!

Glad you are enjoying the lightning I fobbed off (oops I meant sold) to you. I liked shooting it, but had others I wanted more. They are interesting rifles. They work really well until they don’t. A jam is much harder to clear than one in a 73. 
I’ve seen quite a few shooters who shoot them really well. 
 

For the record quite a few is more than some but less than many 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

2 hours ago, Hoss said:

For the record quite a few is more than some but less than many

The word "some" is inclusive of "many".

 

Guess words don't matter...

 

Phantom

[Kid Rich]

21 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Shooting fast is meaningless...in and of itself.

 

But there are folks here that either have shot just a few matches or no matches in years. Basically their the SASS version of the 40 year old living at home in the basement. Nobody know this...new shooter takes their advice thinking they must know something about the game...and they really don't.

 

Let's not make this about Fast/Gamer vs. Others.

 

Phantom

Not trying to make this about fast versus slow. Just saying that fast does not mean you know stuff that some slow shooters do. I have shot with some of the best shooters in our game and not all of them are fast. I have also shot with some fairly fast shooters that really have no clue wth is goin on.

kR

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

I guess it all comes down to this...

Is the Lightning a good speed rifle side match gun?   Depends on the shooter.
Is it in general, a good main match rifle?  There are those who will say yes, there are those who will say no.   All a matter of preference.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

3 hours ago, Kid Rich said:

Not trying to make this about fast versus slow. Just saying that fast does not mean you know stuff that some slow shooters do. I have shot with some of the best shooters in our game and not all of them are fast. I have also shot with some fairly fast shooters that really have no clue wth is goin on.

kR

I...have no idea why "Fast" shooters are even a point of conversation...??

 

Phantom

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

2 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

I guess it all comes down to this...

Is the Lightning a good speed rifle side match gun?   Depends on the shooter.
Is it in general, a good main match rifle?  There are those who will say yes, there are those who will say no.   All a matter of preference.

And this response is kinda what I was referring too.

 

The percentage of folks that would say that the Lightning Rifle is a good main match rifle is infinitesimally small. To say that it's just preference whether one shoots a Lightning or a Lever rifle would imply that they are on par with each other. 

 

I will say this, that if you have no concern on performance and you weight HEAVILY the ever present and non-existent "Style Points", then perhaps yes, the Lightning Rifle is a matter of preference.

 

Phantom

[Blackwater 53393]

I shot with a posse, last summer at a large annual match, that more than half of the shooters used one or another version of the “Lightning” rifle.  It was impressive!  I even shot one myself for a stage!

 

I used to own and shoot one of the Taurus versions and enjoyed shooting it.  It was thoroughly gunsmithed and was pretty reliable, and I won my category in a few monthly matches with it. 
 

I sold it during a period when I needed the money more than I needed the rifle, (along with several other rifles that I wish I had back) and someone offered me more than I had in it.

 

So! I wasn’t unfamiliar with the operation of the gun. I did okay, shooting the rifle portion of the stage clean.

 

There were at least three current or former category SASS World Champions shooting Lightning rifles of one or another variety on that posse! There were others shooting them that won their category at this match and I have seen them do very well at other matches as well!

 

Just like everything else, if you’re willing to work at something and practice well and efficiently, I’ll say that shooting the Lightning rifle well is no different than any other endeavor. I have seen too many good shooters do it well AND FAST to say or think otherwise!

 

 

 

[Sedalia Dave]

When it comes down to it the gun doesn't matter. What matters is are you faster with your chosen firearm than anyone else that enters the competition. 

 

Above my liquor cabinet sits an award for Fastest Rifle.  I won it at Trailhead this year shooting a Rossi 92. Rounds were 357s loaded with a 147 gr RNFP bullet over a well compressed load of FFFg. 

 

I am fully aware that the only reason I won is because the weather was crappy and only a few people bothered to shoot the side matches. The point is I won because I took the time to enter. There were plenty of shooters at the match that I'm sure were faster than me. However they didn't bother to enter and you can't win anything if you don't enter.

[Rye Miles #13621]

On 9/10/2024 at 4:27 PM, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said:

 

 

Thanks guys for your answers to the original question.
It will help at our annual match, when 2 shooters who shoot lightnings will compete in the side matches.

--Dawg

So what’s the consensus? Are they in a different category? I’m not doing the side match but it’s an interesting question. 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

23 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

So what’s the consensus? Are they in a different category? I’m not doing the side match but it’s an interesting question. 

Oh, right!   

They would be in the same category.   73, 92, Marlin, 66, Henry, Lightning, even the Spencer, are all "Main Match" rifles and would be in the same category.

Love to see someone try a speed match with a Spencer!   That would be...    Weird!

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

So what’s the consensus? Are they in a different category? I’m not doing the side match but it’s an interesting question. 

I've never seen them separated...I mean...with so few of them around it just doesn't make sense.

 

Phantom

[Hoss]

3 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

Oh, right!   

They would be in the same category.   73, 92, Marlin, 66, Henry, Lightning, even the Spencer, are all "Main Match" rifles and would be in the same category.

Love to see someone try a speed match with a Spencer!   That would be...    Weird!

I’ve never even seen a Spencer at a match.  Would like to, but then I’d likely have to get one. Often at our 5th Saturday matches I’ll shoot something different. A 1860 Henry, 10G shotgun, etc. I’d definitely give a Spencer a whirl!

 

last 5th Saturday I shot buckaroo. 22s and a 410 double. Was kinda fun. Won my category! 
 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

43 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I’ve never even seen a Spencer at a match.

I've used a Spencer.   Genuine GI.   I like to take it out once a year or so and shoot a match with it.   Most recently, I used it for one stage at the MA/CT/RI Tristate for one stage.   Shot a clean match!

[Kid Rich]

20 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I...have no idea why "Fast" shooters are even a point of conversation...??

 

Phantom

Well it is obviously beyond my somewhat limited capabilities to understand why you don't have an idea or to explain it.  So I'll just have to live with that.

kR

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

3 hours ago, Kid Rich said:

Well it is obviously beyond my somewhat limited capabilities to understand why you don't have an idea or to explain it.  So I'll just have to live with that.

kR

Why did you bring up the sub-category of shooters...I have no idea why...wasn't part of my comments which you were referencing.

 

Phantom