Silver Dollar Drifter Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 (edited) Regardless of variables, can a 45 Colt 1873 rifle be shot as fast as one in 38? I don't think so, but what to hear others thoughts. - The question is NOT about cost or availability of components. Availability comes & goes & most report the 38 is cheaper. I suspect that if same shooter invests same time with each, he/she will shoot the 38 faster at a match. Edited August 31 by Silver Dollar Drifter Clarification after reading some responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 2 minutes ago, Silver Dollar Drifter said: Regardless of variables, can a 45 Colt 1873 rifle be shot as fast as one in 38? I don't think so, but what to hear others thoughts. Yes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Most shooters find the .38 spl cycles faster (lighter ammo) and moves off target less between shots) than a .45 Colt rifle. good luck, GJ 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 As light as a 45 Colt rifle can be loaded these days how much difference could it make? Obviously if you were talking about standard 38 and 45 loads there would be more of a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 There are a MIRIAD of variables. However, the short answer is a YES. the simple expedient of installing a carrier for Cowboy 45 special cases and the physics become very close indeed. There is also the problem of overcoming Blow-By from the 45 Colt case. One can also run 45 Schofield cases. Many contributing factors. The biggest misconception is brought about by the sheer popularity of running 38 Special cases with very light bullets. Much more popular than .45s. Trying to make the comparison "Regardless of Variables" is actually oxymoron. All depends on whom is running which. Variables again rear their ugly head. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho Gunslinger Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: There are a MIRIAD of variables. However, the short answer is a YES. the simple expedient of installing a carrier for Cowboy 45 special cases and the physics become very close indeed. There is also the problem of overcoming Blow-By from the 45 Colt case. One can also run 45 Schofield cases. Many contributing factors. The biggest misconception is brought about by the sheer popularity of running 38 Special cases with very light bullets. Much more popular than .45s. Trying to make the comparison "Regardless of Variables" is actually oxymoron. All depends on whom is running which. Variables again rear their ugly head. When he said variables aside I assume he meant the best case scenario for both, ie fastest variables for both. Although I don't know if they intended 45 colt to 45 Schofield/C45S being one of those variables. Edited August 31 by Idaho Gunslinger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 (edited) Short Answer - (in a perfect world) Likely No. Explanation of short answer: Lighter recoil, lighter rounds, less moving mass (when cartridge weight is considered) (and assuming equal effort applied) all these factors will add up to affect "speed" of operation. Longer answer - No, but realistically if both rifles are optimally equipped/ modified - If ammo is optimized for both firearms - the differences in "speed" would be so marginal that the behaviors and abilities of individual shooters would be a far greater differential. The differences between 45 and 38 are myriad, with weight, feel of swing, economics of reloading, historical caliber (even though 45 Colt was never an old west rifle caliber), etc. and so on. But SPEED as an objective, measurable, repeatable measurement will not be a consequential difference. Yes, a tuned 38 special rifle will out run a stock 45 Colt rifle - but with all things being equal (or as equal as real life ever can be) - caliber is not that big of a deal. Pick whichever holds the most attraction to you. Edited August 31 by Creeker, SASS #43022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Null N. Void Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 What do the fastest shooters use? There's your answer. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beartrap SASS#57175 Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Do we figure in the "edgers" from the larger diameter bullets or the misses from 100 gr 38s some blind spotter didn't see?😆 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho Gunslinger Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 36 minutes ago, Null N. Void said: What do the fastest shooters use? There's your answer. I think most of fastest shooters use 38 because it's cheaper to shoot and therefore they can practice more. Not necessarily because it is the fastest. A pound of lead is generally the same price whether they make it into 38's or 45's but you can make a lot more 38 bullets out of a pound of lead than you can 45's. 38's also take less powder, the brass is cheaper and more plentiful and at least lately the small pistol primers are also cheaper than the LPP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 I'm going to say no. We've all seen (in person or video) the '73 guys shooting .38's who make it sound like a machine gun. Classic Cowperson shooters have to shoot the larger caliber. Do the champion Classic shooters shoot at that same machine gun speed? If so, I haven't seen it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 3 hours ago, Silver Dollar Drifter said: Regardless of variables, can a 45 Colt 1873 rifle be shot as fast as one in 38? I don't think so, but what to hear others thoughts. I think Smokestack put to rest the answer that a smaller caliber is faster. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Shooters who already own 45s are more likely to try to load their 45s closer to the 38 loads and do their best with them. The fastest shooters, even if they started with 45s are more likely to spend the money to transition to 38s because they want the best and don't want to make do with 45s. They want every tenth of a second they can get. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 19 minutes ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said: I think Smokestack put to rest the answer that a smaller caliber is faster. The only thing the video proves is that a rifle of unknown caliber can be unloaded at a posted rate of 1.57 seconds. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leroy Luck Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 (edited) I’ve never timed how fast I can shoot 10 rounds through my 45 colt 73s (3 different setups). But I’d be willing to bet that the same setup in both calibers(38 & 45) I could probably be darn close with either one. “Remember, what you practice is what you’ll be good at” -Longhunter in an old YouTube video Edited September 1 by Leroy Luck 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Coroner Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 (edited) 2 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: I'm going to say no. We've all seen (in person or video) the '73 guys shooting .38's who make it sound like a machine gun. Classic Cowperson shooters have to shoot the larger caliber. Do the champion Classic shooters shoot at that same machine gun speed? If so, I haven't seen it. 45 Colt. Am I as fast as the Uber guys, no. 5952ECC2-C881-452C-8497-9AEDB659E434.mov Edited September 1 by Dutch Coroner 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho Gunslinger Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 38 minutes ago, Dutch Coroner said: 45 Colt. Am I as fast as the Uber guys, no. 5952ECC2-C881-452C-8497-9AEDB659E434.mov Looked pretty uber to me! What bullet weight are you shooting? And any idea what you velocity or PF is in the rifle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 3 hours ago, Matthew Duncan said: The only thing the video proves is that a rifle of unknown caliber can be unloaded at a posted rate of 1.57 seconds. He beat that record in 2018...1.55 seconds with a .44-40 https://youtu.be/n68PJM5bazM?si=_Uhhak2dWGG1EdcQ 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 3 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: I'm going to say no. We've all seen (in person or video) the '73 guys shooting .38's who make it sound like a machine gun. Classic Cowperson shooters have to shoot the larger caliber. Do the champion Classic shooters shoot at that same machine gun speed? If so, I haven't seen it. 3 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: He beat that record in 2018...1.55 seconds with a .44-40 https://youtu.be/n68PJM5bazM?si=_Uhhak2dWGG1EdcQ Okay, I take it back. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 Just a thought..... If the smaller caliber equated to faster shooting (assuming everything else is equal in the rifles), then you would think the top gunners would use a .32 Simply put, the good Marlins that Deuce and Bogus Jim use are rifles they have practiced hard with, whether it be the .38 of Deuce or the .32 of Bogus Jim. And the various calibers that Smokestack has videos seem to be properly setup 73's that he uses with lots of practice. My opinion, regardless of caliber, the performance capabilities of your rifle probably correlates to the amount of effort you put into your practice to get its top performance levels. Have you ever seen Jackalope shoot his 73 chambered in .45 Colt....... with black powder? He can run his rifle probably faster for 10 shots than 90+ % of other shooters using smaller caliber rifles. ..........Widder 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choctaw Jack Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 I converted from .45 Colt to C45S, and the difference is noticeable. Will it outrun a .38 ? Not with me at the controls! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 5 hours ago, Matthew Duncan said: The only thing the video proves is that a rifle of unknown caliber can be unloaded at a posted rate of 1.57 seconds. I can’t swear to it because it wasn’t mentioned in the comments but unless I’m badly mistaken he was shooting a 44-40 when he did this Randy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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