speed

[Silver Dollar Drifter]

Regardless of variables, can a 45 Colt 1873 rifle be shot as fast as one in 38?  I don't think so, but what to hear others thoughts.  - The question is NOT about cost or availability of components.  Availability comes & goes & most report the 38 is cheaper.   I suspect that if same shooter invests same time with each, he/she will shoot the 38 faster at a match.

 

[Texas Jack Black]

2 minutes ago, Silver Dollar Drifter said:

Regardless of variables, can a 45 Colt 1873 rifle be shot as fast as one in 38?  I don't think so, but what to hear others thoughts.

 

 Yes

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Most shooters find the .38 spl cycles faster (lighter ammo) and moves off target less between shots) than a .45 Colt rifle.

 

good luck, GJ

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

As light as a 45 Colt rifle can be loaded these days how much difference could it make? Obviously if you were talking about standard 38 and 45 loads there would be more of a difference. 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

There are a MIRIAD of variables.  However, the short answer is a YES.  the simple expedient of installing a carrier for Cowboy 45 special cases and the physics become very close indeed.  There is also the problem of overcoming Blow-By from the 45 Colt case.  One can also run 45 Schofield cases.  Many contributing factors.  The biggest misconception is brought about by the sheer popularity of running 38 Special cases with very light bullets.  Much more popular than .45s.

 

Trying to make the comparison "Regardless of Variables" is actually oxymoron.  All depends on whom is running which.  Variables again rear their ugly head.

[Idaho Gunslinger]

9 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

There are a MIRIAD of variables.  However, the short answer is a YES.  the simple expedient of installing a carrier for Cowboy 45 special cases and the physics become very close indeed.  There is also the problem of overcoming Blow-By from the 45 Colt case.  One can also run 45 Schofield cases.  Many contributing factors.  The biggest misconception is brought about by the sheer popularity of running 38 Special cases with very light bullets.  Much more popular than .45s.

 

Trying to make the comparison "Regardless of Variables" is actually oxymoron.  All depends on whom is running which.  Variables again rear their ugly head.

When he said variables aside I assume he meant the best case scenario for both, ie fastest variables for both. 

 

Although I don't know if they intended 45 colt to 45 Schofield/C45S being one of those variables.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Short Answer - (in a perfect world) Likely No.

Explanation of short answer:  Lighter recoil, lighter rounds, less moving mass (when cartridge weight is considered) (and assuming equal effort applied) all these factors will add up to affect "speed" of operation.

 

Longer answer - No, but realistically if both rifles are optimally equipped/ modified - If ammo is optimized for both firearms - the differences in "speed" would be so marginal that the behaviors and abilities of individual shooters would be a far greater differential.

 

The differences between 45 and 38 are myriad, with weight, feel of swing, economics of reloading, historical caliber (even though 45 Colt was never an old west rifle caliber), etc. and so on. 

But SPEED as an objective, measurable, repeatable measurement will not be a consequential difference. 

 

Yes, a tuned 38 special rifle will out run a stock 45 Colt rifle - but with all things being equal (or as equal as real life ever can be)  - caliber is not that big of a deal.

Pick whichever holds the most attraction to you.

[Null N. Void]

What do the fastest shooters use?  There's your answer.

[Beartrap SASS#57175]

Do we figure in the "edgers" from the larger diameter bullets or the misses from 100 gr 38s some blind spotter didn't see?😆

[Idaho Gunslinger]

36 minutes ago, Null N. Void said:

What do the fastest shooters use?  There's your answer.

I think most of fastest shooters use 38 because it's cheaper to shoot and therefore they can practice more. Not necessarily because it is the fastest. 

 

A pound of lead is generally the same price whether they make it into 38's or 45's but you can make a lot more 38 bullets out of a pound of lead than you can 45's. 

 

38's also take less powder, the brass is cheaper and more plentiful and at least lately the small pistol primers are also cheaper than the LPP. 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

I'm going to say no.  We've all seen (in person or video) the '73 guys shooting .38's who make it sound like a machine gun.  Classic Cowperson shooters have to shoot the larger caliber.  Do the champion Classic shooters shoot at that same machine gun speed?  If so, I haven't seen it.

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

3 hours ago, Silver Dollar Drifter said:

Regardless of variables, can a 45 Colt 1873 rifle be shot as fast as one in 38?  I don't think so, but what to hear others thoughts.

 

I think Smokestack put to rest the answer that a smaller caliber is faster. 
 

 

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

Shooters who already own 45s are more likely to try to load their 45s closer to the 38 loads and do their best with them. The fastest shooters, even if they started with 45s are more likely to spend the money to transition to 38s because they want the best and don't want to make do with 45s. They want every tenth of a second they can get.

[Matthew Duncan]

19 minutes ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

I think Smokestack put to rest the answer that a smaller caliber is faster. 
 

 

The only thing the video proves is that a rifle of unknown caliber can be unloaded at a posted rate of 1.57 seconds.

[Leroy Luck]

I’ve never timed how fast I can shoot 10 rounds through my 45 colt 73s (3 different setups). But I’d be willing to bet that the same setup in both calibers(38 & 45) I could probably be darn close with either one. 
 

“Remember, what you practice is what you’ll be good at” -Longhunter in an old YouTube video 

[Dutch Coroner]

2 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I'm going to say no.  We've all seen (in person or video) the '73 guys shooting .38's who make it sound like a machine gun.  Classic Cowperson shooters have to shoot the larger caliber.  Do the champion Classic shooters shoot at that same machine gun speed?  If so, I haven't seen it.

 

45 Colt. Am I as fast as the Uber guys, no. 

[Idaho Gunslinger]

38 minutes ago, Dutch Coroner said:

 

45 Colt. Am I as fast as the Uber guys, no. 

5952ECC2-C881-452C-8497-9AEDB659E434.mov

Looked pretty uber to me!

 

What bullet weight are you shooting? And any idea what you velocity or PF is in the rifle?

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

3 hours ago, Matthew Duncan said:

The only thing the video proves is that a rifle of unknown caliber can be unloaded at a posted rate of 1.57 seconds.

 

He beat that record in 2018...1.55 seconds with a .44-40

 

https://youtu.be/n68PJM5bazM?si=_Uhhak2dWGG1EdcQ

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

3 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I'm going to say no.  We've all seen (in person or video) the '73 guys shooting .38's who make it sound like a machine gun.  Classic Cowperson shooters have to shoot the larger caliber.  Do the champion Classic shooters shoot at that same machine gun speed?  If so, I haven't seen it.

 

3 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

He beat that record in 2018...1.55 seconds with a .44-40

 

https://youtu.be/n68PJM5bazM?si=_Uhhak2dWGG1EdcQ

 

Okay, I take it back. 

 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Just a thought.....

If the smaller caliber equated to faster shooting (assuming everything else is equal in the rifles), then you would think the

top gunners would use a .32

 

Simply put, the good Marlins that Deuce and Bogus Jim use are rifles they have practiced hard with, whether it be the .38 of Deuce 

or the .32 of Bogus Jim.

And the various calibers that Smokestack has videos seem to be properly setup 73's that he uses with lots of practice.

 

My opinion, regardless of caliber, the performance capabilities of your rifle probably correlates to the amount of effort you

put into your practice to get its top performance levels.

 

Have you ever seen Jackalope shoot his 73 chambered in .45 Colt....... with black powder? 

He can run his rifle probably faster for 10 shots than 90+ % of other shooters using smaller caliber rifles.

 

..........Widder

 

[Choctaw Jack]

I converted from .45 Colt to C45S, and the difference is noticeable.

Will it outrun a .38 ?

Not with me at the controls!

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

5 hours ago, Matthew Duncan said:

The only thing the video proves is that a rifle of unknown caliber can be unloaded at a posted rate of 1.57 seconds.

I can’t swear to it because it wasn’t mentioned in the comments but unless I’m badly mistaken he was shooting a 44-40 when he did this 

 

Randy