Uberti '73 Competition Rifle - Advice Please

[Quiet Burp]

I have .357 Uberti '73 Competition Rifle which has Whisper springs and been shooting it for three years, its beautifully slick to operate.

 

At the weekend match in the last two stages the action started to feel like it was sticking/dragging. Just didn't feel 'normal'.

 

Took it apart when I got home and cleaned it and put it back together and the problem was still there.

Took it apart again and looked and looked and noticed that this pin was pushed more through to the loading gate side and I could see feint rub marks on the inside of the loading gate side cover.

I tapped it back a few millimetres so that the pin was now equal and put the  rifle back together and it was 'as normal' and slick again.

 

Question is - after years of zero problems what could have caused that pin to move to the right and rub against the right hand plate?

 

[Idaho Gunslinger]

My rifle is shortstroked and an 1866 but on mine those pins are pretty loose and the side covers are the only thing that keeps them from falling out. Makes it a pain to reassemble but there are tricks to help.

 

If those pins are a tight fit on yours then it is just common for pins to slide over time just like screws will keep loose. Some of the high level shooters have screw drivers at the loading table and check all their screws before loading their guns. I check all my screws and pins as I am packing up my guns the day before a match. Having pins creep is a common issue on modern guns too. 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Nickle, hard chrome, in the white? Shiny!  Have you had the side covers off before?  Wondering if there used to be some grease there that wore off.

[Griff]

A dab of grease is your friend.  Both around the pin and on the ends.  I use Lucas' Red EP2 synthetic.

[Quiet Burp]

33 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Nickle, hard chrome, in the white? Shiny!  Have you had the side covers off before?  Wondering if there used to be some grease there that wore off.

 

No sorry, I googled for a pic. My gun was back together. 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

I never use grease. It collects...stuff.

 

If you need grease, there's a problem with your rifle...In my opinion.

 

Phantom

[Quiet Burp]

On the loading side plate, the rub mark(s) were very feint, but definitely enough friction to make the action feel like it was dragging. 

[Dusty Devil Dale]

 My rifles all have loose lever pins that shift back and forth and rub both side plates.  I mirror polished  the side plate insides to get rid of the rough machining marks, but rub marks quickly come back, even with the sides and pins well lubed.  I normally use a very light coating of cheap red grease, which seems to work OK.   But Phantom is right about grease mess,  requiring more frequent disassembly and cleaning.  

I really can't say I've ever felt any consequential levering drag from the side plate friction. 

 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

After years of use, the pin has worn enough to drift to the side a little. 

 

Reassemble it and put some red locktite (removable) on both ends of the pin - just a drop is plenty.   Will help hold the pin from drifting.  You could order a new one that MIGHT fit more tightly, then again, the wear may be in the holes of the toggle links.

 

And, one could just polish the points on the side plates where the pin ends have been dragging.  End round the pin ends slightly.   That would reduce the feeling of friction.

 

good luck, GJ

[Lassy LaRock]

It is possible that the side plate was simply not inserted correctly, which allowed the pin to move out.

[Lucky R. K.]

11 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Reassemble it and put some red locktite (removable) on both ends of the pin - just a drop is plenty.   Will help hold the pin from drifting.  You could order a new one that MIGHT fit more tightly, then again, the wear may be in the holes of the toggle links.

I believe red locktite will require either heat or a good solvent to release it's hold.

Lucky 

[El Sobrante Kid]

3 minutes ago, Lucky R. K. said:

I believe red locktite will require either heat or a good solvent to release it's hold.

Lucky 

This has always been my experience when doing assembly work on equipment. I generally use the Blue locktite to keep things from turning/moving on their own, but still be able to disassemble them if/when I need to.

[El Chapo]

14 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I never use grease. It collects...stuff.

 

If you need grease, there's a problem with your rifle...In my opinion.

 

Phantom

 

If it slides, it needs grease.  That pivoting joints need lubrication is not a problem.

 

The pin in question freely slides back and forth in its hole and is supposed to "rub" on the side plates.  Which is why a small amount of grease at the wear points can make all the difference.

I think a lot of people are resistant to using grease on guns because they're used to using a little bit of oil on surfaces that don't need much lubrication, but oil doesn't stay where you put it.  Oil works great when there's a pan to hold it and the means to pump or splash it where it needs to be.  I have been using grease on guns for decades and it seems to have solved me a lot of problems.

 

The grease I use is this one:

 

https://www.lubriplate.com/Products/Grease/Multi-Purpose-Greases/FGL-00,-4-6-LB-TUBS/FGL-00

 

If you can get it in a little 1 pound container, it'll last a lifetime.  Use an acid brush to apply.

Edited August 26 by El Chapo

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

4 minutes ago, El Chapo said:

 

If it slides, it needs grease.  That pivoting joints need lubrication is not a problem.

 

The pin in question freely slides back and forth in its hole and is supposed to "rub" on the side plates.  Which is why a small amount of grease at the wear points can make all the difference.

I think a lot of people are resistant to using grease on guns because they're used to using a little bit of oil on surfaces that don't need much lubrication, but oil doesn't stay where you put it.  Oil works great when there's a pan to hold it and the means to pump or splash it where it needs to be.  I have been using grease on guns for decades and it seems to have solved me a lot of problems.

 

The grease I use is this one:

 

https://www.lubriplate.com/Products/Grease/Multi-Purpose-Greases/FGL-00,-4-6-LB-TUBS/FGL-00

 

If you can get it in a little 1 pound container, it'll last a lifetime.  Use an acid brush to apply.

Well...I've been doing the wrong way all these years...and a gazillion rounds through my rifle...what do I know.

 

And grease really stays where you put it????

 

Oooookay...

 

Phantom

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

12 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Well...I've been doing the wrong way all these years...and a gazillion rounds through my rifle...what do I know.

 

And grease really stays where you put it????

 

Oooookay...

 

Phantom

 

That is because you are not using magnetic grease.

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

Oil... grease, does it really matter if you are regularly pulling off the side plates and cleaning it off and replacing it?

If you have a gun with pins that slide around a lot and are rubbing, I'd be pulling the side plates off and cleaning/re-lubing every time I shot it.

Yes, if you use grease and leave it for a while, it will pick up, who-knows-what and grind away.

Rounding the ends of the pins is a good idea, just remember, only the very end of the pins and if you feel you may not be capable of doing this, you're not; get a 'smith!    Me? I clean and oil all the moving points and only use grease (if I do at all) in the pin slots of the links.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

7 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

 

That is because you are not using magnetic grease.

How do you know...

 

😜

[Chickamauga Charlie, SASS #47963]

21 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Well...I've been doing the wrong way all these years...and a gazillion rounds through my rifle...what do I know.

 

And grease really stays where you put it????

 

Oooookay...

 

Phantom

a lot of the respected old timers used to tell me to use grease not oil

i never did, goes against my thinking but if it works for them, let it.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

30 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

How do you know...

 

😜

 

Because you are a self-confessed non-greaser.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

2 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

 

Because you are a self-confessed non-greaser.

I do have a black leather jacket...

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

If the machine work is not absolutely PERFECT, (Remember it's a Uberti) the pivot pins are going to move a bit.  Torque causes it.  If the Machine Work were perfect, taking it apart would be really really fun. 

[Captain Bill Burt]

3 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Oil... grease, does it really matter if you are regularly pulling off the side plates and cleaning it off and replacing it?

If you have a gun with pins that slide around a lot and are rubbing, I'd be pulling the side plates off and cleaning/re-lubing every time I shot it.

Yes, if you use grease and leave it for a while, it will pick up, who-knows-what and grind away.

Rounding the ends of the pins is a good idea, just remember, only the very end of the pins and if you feel you may not be capable of doing this, you're not; get a 'smith!    Me? I clean and oil all the moving points and only use grease (if I do at all) in the pin slots of the links.

Wait, the side plates come off?  

 

J/K.

 

I've heard people argue it both ways, grease, no grease, oil, no oil.  The guy who built my main match gun sent it to me greased with his special formula and instructions on where it's needed, so I go with what he told me to do.  The guy who built my prior main match gun, which was taken, given to the bunkhouse boss sent it with instructions to only use CMP Breakfree, lest I void the lifetime warranty, so that gun only gets Breakfree.  They both seem to run fine as long as we do our part.

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Could it had anything to do with the way folks, slam them down on props, on their sides on tables etc. while shooting stages... 

Nothing tp worry about, tap it back flush...

 

Jabez Cowboy 

[El Chapo]

12 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Well...I've been doing the wrong way all these years...and a gazillion rounds through my rifle...what do I know.

 

And grease really stays where you put it????

 

Oooookay...

 

Phantom

 

Grease is soap and oil mixed, and yes it does chemically adhere to where you put it.  Try it; you might like it.

 

As to whether you're doing it "wrong," there's no need to moralize everything these days.  As long as you're okay with there not being much lubrication on a surface that slides like that, use the oil.  The only thing I've found oil good for is preventing corrosion where there's a surface that'll hold oil, like a parkerized surface.  Just as I wouldn't lube a tie rod end with oil, I wouldn't do the same for the pins in my '73 either.  Maybe try a thicker oil if grease is just not an idea you can stand; maybe it'll stay there longer.  It doesn't take a huge film of oil to provide some lubrication.

 

Your concerns are why I use a very soft grease, though. SGLI 00 grease is really soft, almost the consistency of butter if you leave it out at room temperature all day.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

2 minutes ago, El Chapo said:

 

Grease is soap and oil mixed, and yes it does chemically adhere to where you put it.  Try it; you might like it.

 

As to whether you're doing it "wrong," there's no need to moralize everything these days.  As long as you're okay with there not being much lubrication on a surface that slides like that, use the oil.  The only thing I've found oil good for is preventing corrosion where there's a surface that'll hold oil, like a parkerized surface.  Just as I wouldn't lube a tie rod end with oil, I wouldn't do the same for the pins in my '73 either.  Maybe try a thicker oil if grease is just not an idea you can stand; maybe it'll stay there longer.  It doesn't take a huge film of oil to provide some lubrication.

 

Your concerns are why I use a very soft grease, though. SGLI 00 grease is really soft, almost the consistency of butter if you leave it out at room temperature all day.

Sorry...I just don't take much seriously here on the Wire when it comes to suggestions on issues directly related to the game.

 

I'll just keep doing what I've been doing...taking the word of those that I actually know and have a direct friendship with...nothing personal.

 

Phantom

[Dusty Devil Dale]

If your rifle is a Uberti, take a look at the machining marks left on the inside of the sideplates.  Mine were rough -- could have been used as a light file.  I sanded the texture off, with ordinary sand paper (down to 1000 grit), ONLY in the narrow strip where the lever pin makes contact.  I can't say it made much difference in levering, but it made me feel like I had done something, FWIW. 

[Captain Bill Burt]

10 hours ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

Could it had anything to do with the way folks, slam them down on props, on their sides on tables etc. while shooting stages... 

Nothing tp worry about, tap it back flush...

 

Jabez Cowboy 

I wouldn’t dream of slamming a long gun down on a prop…I drop them from about six inches up.

[Ya Big Tree]

I put my pin on a piece of steel and hit it in the center a couple times with a hammer and chisel until it fit snug when reinstalled.

[Idaho Gunslinger]

9 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Sorry...I just don't take much seriously here on the Wire when it comes to suggestions on issues directly related to the game.

 

I'll just keep doing what I've been doing...taking the word of those that I actually know and have a direct friendship with...nothing personal.

 

Phantom

You speak blasphemy! Even Licoln agrees with me!

[El Chapo]

On 8/26/2024 at 9:22 PM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Sorry...I just don't take much seriously here on the Wire when it comes to suggestions on issues directly related to the game.

 

I'll just keep doing what I've been doing...taking the word of those that I actually know and have a direct friendship with...nothing personal.

 

Phantom

 

Forum discussions really have value for those reading, not so much for those participating.

 

Whether you actually know someone or are friends with them has literally zero to do with whether they know what they are talking about or are telling the truth.  It is neutral on both.

Edited August 30 by El Chapo

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:54 PM, El Chapo said:

Whether you actually know someone or are friends with them has literally zero to do with whether they know what they are talking about or are telling the truth.  It is neutral on both.

Ah yes...brilliant point...well...maybe...

 

Perhaps you don't understand the subtlety in my response...that folks that participate in the Wire...particularly those that appear to have little practical knowledge of our game...are not high on my list of folks to listen to regarding my CAS equipment. 

 

Let me know when you've shot your  CAS rifle for 100's of thousands of rounds...won a few larger matches...then I might consider listening to how your equipment held up and performed.

 

Phantom

[Rye Miles #13621]

6 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Ah yes...brilliant point...well...maybe...

 

Perhaps you don't understand the subtlety in my response...that folks that participate in the Wire...particularly those that appear to have little practical knowledge of our game...are not high on my list of folks to listen to regarding my CAS equipment. 

 

Let me know when you've shot your  CAS rifle for 100's of thousands of rounds...won a few larger matches...then I might consider listening to how your equipment held up and performed.

 

Phantom

Great point!