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Caliber question


Dapper Dave

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9 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:


That's an old one   The cross-bolt safety actually predates Remlin.   It goes all the way back to the final years of Marlin.   But, if I wanted a Marlin, this is one that I'd want, a pre-safety one.  But it's prolly also got a microgroove barrel, which does not work so well with cast bullets.   Or so I understand.

Hogwash, MG bbl works just fine in this game.

Been run'n a MG .44 for 21+ yrs.

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So, I talked to him on the way in to work, and we discussed loads within SASS velocity limits. She apparently likes 158 grain RN or SWC, of course, and Unique powder...that I am low on, but I have a lot of AA#2, and 4 grains of that in the Smith 64-3 chronos out to about 800FPS or so - I don't have my load data in front of me right now. He commented that he has used powder coated lead for many years with no issue, and when I looked at the bore, it's bright and clean - it will be as clean if not cleaner when I return it! I mentioned that she might get some handling wear, and he laughed - that was his brush gun for javalina, so there are already some "character marks" to go with the sling mounts and scope mount holes. I am just to be as careful as possible, and we both understand that feces occur. 

He said the number one thing is to remember - let people know she's not for sale. :D

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5 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Did you try .38 Special or .357 Magnum? 

Not yet - haven't had a chance to hit the range yet. I have multiple guns I need to check new loads in this coming weekend...IF the car gets fixed on time and in budget. 

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9 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

Not yet - haven't had a chance to hit the range yet. I have multiple guns I need to check new loads in this coming weekend...IF the car gets fixed on time and in budget. 

Just see if the mag tube will hold 10, .38's

Stay with RNFP for bullet shape for smooth feeding.

Use 3.7-4.0 gn of Unique with 120-158gn bullets with a firm roll-crimp. 

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i shoot both 45colt as well as 38spcl . most of the fast guys ive seen are shooting 38s depending on your goals , but the secon part of your post caught my attention the most ---

 

when i started this i had a reloading friend set up my reloaders and get them regulated to the rifles and revolvers i was shooting , an old timer told me to buy the best i could afford after checking out what was available and what others were shooting atr our club , 

 

when my friend asked similar questions i told him - i bpought the guns oi use as tools , i dont abuse but they dont get babied either , i would not use a collectible or something i treasured for this game , i bought the best i could afford at the various times i  bought and never looked back - i also dont ever think about wear and tear in use , they were bought as TOOLS to be used for this game 

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Absolutely - I have no safe queens either. 

As to the bullet question, I have three molds for 38 right now, IIRC, RN and SWC. I will hopefully get everything out to the range to get familiarized this weekend. 

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Yep  .38 is less strain on the wallet to shoot fer' sure but for me anyways they are pesky little things to handle... I personally  prefer the bigger calibers..that's just me ...everyone's choice is  for  different reasons.

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8 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

Absolutely - I have no safe queens either. 

As to the bullet question, I have three molds for 38 right now, IIRC, RN and SWC. I will hopefully get everything out to the range to get familiarized this weekend. 

While there are round nose molds, there are also "rounder" nose molds, There are molds out there that are described as "round nose", but have a very distinct point to their ogive.  These are best avoided for tube magazines .  I have an older Lee mold that casts a very round nose and found that moderately light loads, it isn't a problem in the tubular magazines of my Rossis.  However, for BEST results a Round Flat Nose will be safest in said magazine.  The rounded ogive aids feeding from either carrier style, angled as inthe mdl 1894 Marlin, or 1892 Winchester (& clones) to the straight feed of the toggle link rifles. 

 

But, I'll typically recommend a truncated cone.  These usually have a wider meplat for the nose, than the typical  RFN & carry a bit more weight forward for better low speed stability.  (This last bit is strictly my opinion, as found in my rifles, albeit 45 Colts).

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I own and shoot 38,357, 44-40 ,44 spec, 45 cowboy,44 Russian . Which one I use depends on what category in a sass match I’m shooting at the time. I love them all and don’t feel any more cowboy with one over the other, and your gonna ding up whatever you shoot so get used to it!

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10 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

Absolutely - I have no safe queens either. 

As to the bullet question, I have three molds for 38 right now, IIRC, RN and SWC. I will hopefully get everything out to the range to get familiarized this weekend. 

Don't bet on that rifle like'n SWC profile. 

Look seriously at RNFP profile. 

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Just spent $1100 fixing the car - a new mold will be a payday away. 😟

The RN I have is the Lee 158gr RN. The SWC is a Lee 158 gr mold as well. I also have options like the Lee 124gr Tumble Lube mold I usually use with 9mm, and I am pretty sure I have at LEAST one or two more molds out there in that diameter that I haven't used in some time...

 

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2 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

Just spent $1100 fixing the car - a new mold will be a payday away. 😟

The RN I have is the Lee 158gr RN. The SWC is a Lee 158 gr mold as well. I also have options like the Lee 124gr Tumble Lube mold I usually use with 9mm, and I am pretty sure I have at LEAST one or two more molds out there in that diameter that I haven't used in some time...

 

Remember, that Marlin needs to hold 10 rnds in the magazine tube. ;)

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Are all courses of fire with rifle 10 rounds? I can't modify the spring, since it's not mine, but I will experiment this weekend with the bullet profiles/loads I have right now to see how many I can stuff in there. 

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1 hour ago, Dapper Dave said:

Are all courses of fire with rifle 10 rounds? I can't modify the spring, since it's not mine, but I will experiment this weekend with the bullet profiles/loads I have right now to see how many I can stuff in there. 

 You can't modify the original spring. But if it means you could load 10 rounds in the magazine, couldn't you purchase a replacement spring and shorten that one? Would be an inexpensive part.

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I have never worked on a lever action rifle - is swapping the spring as easy as a pump shotgun? If so, I could see doing that. 

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11 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

Are all courses of fire with rifle 10 rounds? I can't modify the spring, since it's not mine, but I will experiment this weekend with the bullet profiles/loads I have right now to see how many I can stuff in there. 

Yes, 10 rnds for rifle.

Have you attended any shoots yet? 

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I believe the shortest .357 Marlin is the 1894C, which has a stated magazine capacity of nine rounds of .357 Magnum.  They will usually hold ten .38 Special cartridges.

 

You really have to try a rifle and different ammo to determine what it will feed.

 

I bought a used 1894C that fed my .38 Special cowboy ammo (1.44” OAL) just fine but I could not get it to feed any type of .357 ammo.  I’m sure it was an aberration.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

If it ain't your rifle, you should leave it alone.

That was what I said earlier. 

Quote

I can't modify the spring, since it's not mine

 

Edited by Dapper Dave
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14 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Yes, 10 rnds for rifle.

Have you attended any shoots yet? 

One match with the Rio Salado Cowboys. I had to leave early for my wife, but I will be back out early next month for new shooter orientation and get started. If it only holds nine, it only holds nine, I'll live with reloading one round. I am not going to win any prizes, just want to have fun with a like minded group of folks. I apologize that I didn't notice how many rounds were fired in each stage - I was walking and talking to members, and trying to soak it all in like a sponge. :)

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Posted (edited)

OK, good news/bad news. Using my safety loading barrel, (55 gallon barrel filled halfway with sand), and after spending some time online learning about lever action rifles, I tried loading it. 

OK - she holds ten 38 Specials, no problems. 

But...

When the round comes up on the lifter, about 30-40% of the time it is cockeyed, with the bullet pointing towards the left side, and the rim towards the ejection port. This of course causes a jam. However, rocking the lever back to full open and then close would allow the round to chamber every single time. The bolt does not have hold of the case rim at this point. I stared with 158gr SWC, and at first thought it was the bullet profile, but trying three different profiles including round nose didn't solve the issue. 
I do not know enough about lever action rifles to correctly diagnose the issue - is the rim supposed to slide up under the extractor prior to chambering, or does the extractor snap around the rim as the round is slammed home in the chamber? 
Thank you for any helpful replies. I will of course call my buddy in the morning - that guy can fix any gun.

Edit to add - my firearms experience for the last 41 years has been semi auto handguns/rifles, bolt action rifles, and DA revolvers, mostly, with a couple of oddballs thrown in. This is new territory, trying to go slow so I don't screw anything up. Thank you. 

Edited by Dapper Dave
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And a chat with my buddy says that is kinda normal when angled down. I tried it with 357 mag and everything ran better, but I guess the proof of the pudding will be on the firing line on Friday. I will find a load that works. 

What issues do you have with lever action rifles?

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8 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

OK, good news/bad news. Using my safety loading barrel, (55 gallon barrel filled halfway with sand), and after spending some time online learning about lever action rifles, I tried loading it. 

OK - she holds ten 38 Specials, no problems. 

But...

When the round comes up on the lifter, about 30-40% of the time it is cockeyed, with the bullet pointing towards the left side, and the rim towards the ejection port. This of course causes a jam. However, rocking the lever back to full open and then close would allow the round to chamber every single time. The bolt does not have hold of the case rim at this point. I stared with 158gr SWC, and at first thought it was the bullet profile, but trying three different profiles including round nose didn't solve the issue. 
I do not know enough about lever action rifles to correctly diagnose the issue - is the rim supposed to slide up under the extractor prior to chambering, or does the extractor snap around the rim as the round is slammed home in the chamber? 
Thank you for any helpful replies. I will of course call my buddy in the morning - that guy can fix any gun.

Edit to add - my firearms experience for the last 41 years has been semi auto handguns/rifles, bolt action rifles, and DA revolvers, mostly, with a couple of oddballs thrown in. This is new territory, trying to go slow so I don't screw anything up. Thank you. 

Was the rifle in a horizontal position, or pointed way downwards?

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On 8/18/2024 at 4:07 PM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Hogwash, MG bbl works just fine in this game.

Been run'n a MG .44 for 21+ yrs.

This! Besides, Marlin has made a few gazillion .22 rifles with MicroGroove barrels that shoot lead bullets just fine…

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10 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Was the rifle in a horizontal position, or pointed way downwards?

Down. I will take it out to the range tomorrow morning and see if everything is good under recoil/live fire.

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And we have the proof in the pudding. Who shoots pudding, anyway, seems messy :D 

50 yards, standing, various loads tried. Malfs were very few, and mostly with unfavorable bullet profiles. I will need to adjust the sights slightly, but since 50 yards is the max range, that's what I went for, with a 5 inch grapefruit target. She really liked full house magnums, but that's only 9 rounds, and I am really short on magnum brass anyway. 

We only shot for an hour - the heat and humidity were pretty bad. 

First rounds with Marlin.jpg

Marlin at 50 yards 2.jpg

Marlin at 50 yards.jpg

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30 minutes ago, Dapper Dave said:

And we have the proof in the pudding. Who shoots pudding, anyway, seems messy :D ...

 

Some people get confused between ballistic gelatin and jello gelatin. :)

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You'll find "50 yards maximum" to be grossly over estimated.  While that's a stated maximum, you'll find most rifle targets well inside 25 yards.  More like 10 yards, with pistol targets between 3 & 5 yards.  Some places the pistol targets will be positioned so as to interfere with a buntline's maneuverability.  😉

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 63 posts 24 beers , 12 NANNA SPLITS and 5 pounds of popcorn just to figure out that 38 is the best most economical round for SASS😉

.

 

Best wishes.

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4 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

Jeez, Texas Jack, you've been busy!!!

 This thread is causing severe weight gain.🍨🍺

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8 hours ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 This thread is causing severe weight gain.🍨🍺

Don't put so much butter & salt on the popcorn!

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1 hour ago, Griff said:

Don't put so much butter & salt on the popcorn!

 Does that mean more ice cream and beer?

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2 hours ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 Does that mean more ice cream and beer?

Silly question... of course it does!

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