Caliber question

[Dapper Dave]

I know the cowboy calibers of 45 Colt and lesser known ones like 44 Russian and 44-40 are probably popular - how many people like .38 Special/.357 mag? I only ask because I think that's the direction I might go, after actually TRYING what I have, first, of course. I cast several bullet types for 38 Special/357 Mag already, and only one good one in 45 Colt. My buddy is loaning me a Marlin .357 Mag carbine, (I thought it was a Rossi, whoops), and I will pick it up tomorrow to do some familiarization. 

Here's a funny for you - he asked that I don't abuse it, like on an "action" course. I told him from what I've seen, and in the rules, this isn't a run and gun action type match, and his rifle will be gently used.  

Now I have four people actually excited for me to try this discipline out. 🤠

Thank you again!

[paradiddle]

You should get this book.  And read it twice.  Especially before you spend any money.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Captain-Baylors-Cowboy-Action-Shooting-ebook/dp/B0C6X2H6ZS/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1GYY6F550F3LT&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.RgxYmnJdXx5HyYgGuTWt4PcgiOj2VtqNRrzZBjLq1LNd2CPdAfbRpLFncXZFAC-nROP_QwqHouMUeUk8b-BSGd-GtfKHkIStUO197PbF0uGLK4LJLkNzKBu3AIBgkIsDZBmdruewskAYzXjepvxJZx_fn0okr0Py6lEzipz9j5f-OF5q1M1AUEbOJVfMcI8GzKWqA2zGHF4yGi1doY9x2dmwdGFzxJQVWslkJWjLGrg.G2EbD3I70eXczFQK7ibIUdPZchDB0QMBd40g7XP2IWI&dib_tag=se&keywords=big+book+of+cowboy+shooting&qid=1723882822&sprefix=big+book+of+cowboy+shooting%2Caps%2C189&sr=8-1

 

I'm a newbie, but 38 is incredibly popular and from what I've seen and read the most dominant caliber used in SASS right now.

Edited August 17 by paradiddle

[Captain Bill Burt]

The most used caliber in SASS is .38 special followed by either .45 or .32. 
 

I’m sure you will treat your friend’s rifle gently, but FYI, it’s been my observation that SASS guns are NOT treated gently. 
 

Your typical competitive SASS shooter doesn’t want his guns on the ground (obviously) but other than making sure they’re restaged safely isn’t ’treating them gently.’

 

Cart wear, holster wear, impact on prop edges, rain, brass and hulls falling. It adds up.
 

All my SASS guns are in 100% mechanical shape, but all show significant cosmetic wear.

In CAS you can have cosmetically pretty guns or you can be competitive, but not both.

Edited August 17 by Captain Bill Burt

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I might add that Capt BB is ugly on the outside..... like most of us, but he is mechanically sound with a heart

made with Silver and Gold in it.   😀

 

..........Widder

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Just make sure the category you chose to shoot doesn't have a minimum caliber requirement. 

.38 Special is a excellent choice and cheap to load.

[DeaconKC]

I shoot .45 Colt and love it. However, unless you are slightly masochistic [like me] .38s make a lot more sense if your Category doesn't require a larger caliber. It cost about 2/3 to reload .38s as .45s. That difference will add up.

[Griff]

And probably 75% of those shooting .38Spl, started out with 45 Colt or .44-40 guns BECAUSE they didn't hear, act on, or bother to listen to the advice to "come to a match before you buy anything!"  (I would count myself among those, except I'd owned the necessary guns for over 10 years before I came to a match).  (Took me nearly 3 years after I first read about it to actually find out where EOT was; article in 1982 didn't list any location except "Southern California").  

[Dred Bob]

A buddy and I started shooting SASS last year with .45 Colt which was great and a lot of fun but I soon realized that Large Pistol Primers were very difficult to get, I haven't seen them at our local shop in over 3 years, they say they get'm but I never see them.  You will run through a lot of ammo shooting SASS and I quickly ran out of my reserve of LPP.   So we've switched to .38 mostly because of reloading.   I have to say all things being equal I like the feel of shooting .45 but all things aren't equal right now so .38 it is.   I will also say that I believe we are faster with .38's although part of that is that we are new shooters and we're just getting a little better at this.  There is less recoil to the revolvers with .38, noticeably so if you're at the range and comparing but I can't say that in the throes of a stage I notice.  Another consideration is that you're going to lose brass, and if you shoot at big shoots (annuals, state, regional, national, EoT) and I strongly suggest you do, amazing fun.  You're really going to lose brass because they don't pick it up, that was an unwelcome surprise when we shot at EoT this spring.  Everything through your rifle / shotgun is gone and needs to be replace.  .38 brass is cheap, .45 Colt not so much and sometimes backordered and harder to get.   Don't ignore the expense and availability of components when deciding.  At the end of the day running the stages is pretty much the same either way.  I would like to get back to .45 Colt (for the same reason I'd rather ride a Harley and not a Honda).

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Attend EOT and see the bags of brass scouts picked up and are selling.  There are many bags of 38 Specials but few or no bags of other calibers.  This sends a clear message on favored calibers for CAS.

 

Also, check online gun auction sites for once-fired brass.  Again, plenty of 38 Specials with other revolver calibers less available.

 

Taylors sells revolvers and rifles chambered in 9mm Luger.  These are legal for most SASS smokeless categories.  If I was starting out I would buy these as 9mm Luger once-fired brass is more available than 38 Special,

[Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409]

I do load .38 spcl for my wife and do occasionally shoot that when shooting smokeless. That said I shoot 44-40 for my rifle depending on which pistols I shoot it might also be .38 loaded with real BP or 44-40 or 44 Russian. Shooting .38 will be the most economical way to go in the long run.

[McCandless]

We did a poll on this a couple of years back:

.38 special is by far the most used caliber in SASS

followed by .45 Colt

then .44-40 a distant third.

 

After that, there is a wide range of other calibers in use .32H&R Magnum, .32-20, 38-40, .44sp, 44 Magnum, 9mm, .36 percussion, 44 percussion, 45acp, 7.62 Nagant, and many more...

[Bingo Montana]

I started out shooting 45's and quickly switched to 38's as a matter of economy when I started shooting 4 matches a month.  To answer your question "how many people like .38 Special/.357 mag?" Count me as one.  Easy to source Small Pistol Primers, brass is easy to find, more bullets per pound than 45.  Cowboy Action guns do get banged up, if he wants it back in pristine condition that may not happen, you are bound to ding up the wood for sure.  

 

Welcome to the game!

[ORNERY OAF]

Don't let anyone talk you into the little caliber, you shoot what ya want to, if 45 colt or 44-40 feels more old west, then shoot to your hearts content. Reloading takes a ton of the monetary sting out of it and it will be YOU shooting what ever you load, make sure you decide what you like.......my preference, and just mine only, not advocating for anyone else, is 45 colt or 44-40 load pale Rider style. I know if I get stuck with my pistols, I can use my loads for about anything that presents itself....make this game fun for you!

[McCandless]

I solved the problem by having guns of just about every caliber, and shooting what I'm in the mood for that week! 

 

By the way, be careful how you store "Cowboy" guns.  They tend to spontaneously multiply while you're not looking.  

[John Kloehr]

I chose .44 because of Cowboy feel. Also the historical John Kloehr's rifle was an 1873 in 44-40. Then chose .44 Special revolvers and collecting the brass from .44 Russian ammo I bought for it for future black powder (APP) fun.

 

.38 Special seems to be the most popular caliber.

[John Kloehr]

15 minutes ago, McCandless said:

I solved the problem by having guns of just about every caliber, and shooting what I'm in the mood for that week! 

 

By the way, be careful how you store "Cowboy" guns.  They tend to spontaneously multiply while you're not looking.  

I have a vague memory of buying a backup Uberti 1873 rifle in .38 Special. An Evil Roy slicked by Grimes. Forgot all about it until I read your post. 

Edited August 17 by John Kloehr

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

.38 Special is probably the most popular caliber in our sport, for various reasons that have been stated, and probably more.

So, what do I shoot?

 

.45 Colt

.32-20 (A not at all popular one, but one that is really nifty)
.44-40.   

Those are my top three calibers in order of personal preference.   Why?   Just because.  

I also have main match guns in...

.44 Special

.44 Magnum

.32 S&W

.38 Long Colt
and even 56-50 Spencer.

I have these guns because I found them to be interesting and the price was right.   

Notice that I don't have a single .38 Special or .357 Magnum in the bunch.   Why?   It just didn't interest me.   It's a great caliber, but it wasn't "for me."

(Oddly, when my brother was still alive, he was never into CAS, but he always talked about how much he liked .357 Magnum.   Over the years, I got him a 2nd Gen Colt, a Rossi 92 and a Ruger in that caliber when he said the Colt was too nice for a knock around gun.   He always said he'd try the game some day...)

Anyway...   When all is said and done, don't worry about what anyone else tells you makes for a good caliber.   Go with what you like, can afford, and will enjoy.  Don't get a gun because you think it'll make a good "starter" and you switch to something "better" later.  Get what you want, even it takes you a little longer.  Let's say, for the sake of discussion, that you are in love with the idea of shooting a .45s out of a real Colt SAA.   That's great.  But even a used Colt will cost you a lot of money.   So, you may have to get a used clone.  If you do, get one that's in good mechanical condition, without regards to what it looks like.   Or, if you really want to run .38's in Rugers because the Rugers are built like tanks, go for it.  This is about what YOU will enjoy.  Sure, you can go to a match, and people will let you try stuff.   Maybe a friend will loan you some guns to try out.   But in the end, you want to have fun.  Since you don't have any guns yet, you are wide open as to what you can obtain.  But be forewarned, this game has the potential to make your gun collection GROW at an exponential rate.  

Take it with a grain of salt, and happy shooting!

 

[Captain Bill Burt]

8 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

I might add that Capt BB is ugly on the outside..... like most of us, but he is mechanically sound with a heart

made with Silver and Gold in it.   😀

 

..........Widder

 

I just want to say for the record that all the people laughing at your post are definitely laughing at the idea that I’m ugly and NOT laughing at the idea I have a heart of silver and gold.

Edited August 17 by Captain Bill Burt

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Hey Deacon KC 

 

Hate to tell ya this (No I Don't), but I shoot .45s almost exclusively.  I shoot the .45 almost a cheaply as the .38.  Within PENNIES of the .38s.  Funner you betcha!!

 

Forgot:  A also must include I shoot exclusively APP 3F

Edited August 17 by Colorado Coffinmaker
Forgot a POINTE

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

Yes it is possible to shoot 45s nearly as cheaply by essentially turning them into 38s, other then the diameter of the bullet. 

[El Sobrante Kid]

This is one of those, "Think with your head, or think with your heart" questions. Practical experience has shown without a doubt that .38/.357 is the "smart" caliber to shoot. It is less expensive by almost every measurement (whether you reload or not) and using it will allow you to be more competitive. BUT... and this is the big question, does shooting that caliber float your boat? Are you shooting to be competitive, to just have fun, to bring out your inner cowboy, etc., and is the cost of shooting going to be an issue. EVERY match you shoot will be at least 50 rounds of rifle, 50 rounds of pistol, and 20+ rounds of shotgun ammo. As an example, in 44-40 and 12g (.45 Colt should be about the same), if you don't reload, that would cost about $108.00 per match in ammo. That can add up real fast if you plan on going to a lot of matches and/or the long-term cost of shooting has to be a consideration.

 

For me, I decided to shoot 44-40. Not because it is easier, less expensive, or gives me a competitive edge. I will never be competitive in CAS so I picked the caliber that I thought would make me smile the most... and it does.

[Dapper Dave]

Wow, you'd think I started something, almost as bad as the famous "45 vs 9mm" or the Arfdotcom "chili with beans/no beans" 

 

I know guns multiply - since my divorce and marriage to someone special, they finally get to multiply and not leave. I'm good with that - I think I bought more guns in the past 2 years than the past 20.

I've been reloading for almost 20 years, and casting, so bullets are dang near free. I have a few buddies who like to berm mine and keep me stacked with range lead. I DID think about the 9mm revolvers, since that was actually the very first caliber I ever loaded OR cast for. I just got some molds for 45 Colt, but as people stated, LPP are harder to find, and my stash of them is not nearly so deep. I will have to look for more 38 Special brass - I am down to only a few hundred. 

I used to shoot at least once a week, but with the wife's cancer treatments and such, that has fallen by the wayside the last couple of months. No worries, she's on the backside, reconstruction is done, the whole nine yards - she's like the South after Reconstruction, and twice as testy. 🥰

El Sobrante Kid, I agree - I don't think I'll ever be competitive, I just wanna have fun with like-minded folks. 

I picked up the loaner today - she's a 16 inch Marlin 1844 .357 carbine with the Micro Groove barrel - before Remington bought them out. She has the usual "use" wear, character lines we'd call 'em. Apparently, this was a hunting rifle back in the day, as he said he removed the scope, and it has sling swivels. He clarified that he thought this was a run and gun style thing where rifles get dropped in weird places to switch to pistol during a match, etc. He's also an incredible pragmatic and sensible gent who really does have a heart of gold - allow me to share the 50 cal. Traditions Kentucky percussion rifle kit he is building for his grandaughter, the best guarded little girl in the Desert Southwest. It's a work in progress. This pic is after he cut down and recrowned the barrel and cut the stock to fit. If need me he can show me how to reblue a carbine.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 17 by Dapper Dave

[Dapper Dave]

15 hours ago, paradiddle said:

You should get this book.  And read it twice.  Especially before you spend any money.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Captain-Baylors-Cowboy-Action-Shooting-ebook/dp/B0C6X2H6ZS/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1GYY6F550F3LT&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.RgxYmnJdXx5HyYgGuTWt4PcgiOj2VtqNRrzZBjLq1LNd2CPdAfbRpLFncXZFAC-nROP_QwqHouMUeUk8b-BSGd-GtfKHkIStUO197PbF0uGLK4LJLkNzKBu3AIBgkIsDZBmdruewskAYzXjepvxJZx_fn0okr0Py6lEzipz9j5f-OF5q1M1AUEbOJVfMcI8GzKWqA2zGHF4yGi1doY9x2dmwdGFzxJQVWslkJWjLGrg.G2EbD3I70eXczFQK7ibIUdPZchDB0QMBd40g7XP2IWI&dib_tag=se&keywords=big+book+of+cowboy+shooting&qid=1723882822&sprefix=big+book+of+cowboy+shooting%2Caps%2C189&sr=8-1

 

I'm a newbie, but 38 is incredibly popular and from what I've seen and read the most dominant caliber used in SASS right now.

I will do so as soon as I can. 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

5 minutes ago, Dapper Dave said:

LPP

LPP?

[Dapper Dave]

Large Pistol Primers. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Make sure that Marlin will hold 10 rnds in the magazine tube. 

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

Rifles and shotguns do regularly get placed on tables or whatever gets used by clubs. They can get marked up and dinged depending on how carefully you put them down. Can be on carpet or bare wood. SASS has movement between shooting positions and sometimes you're taking your long gun with you and putting it on the table at the next position. They are often dropped a couple of inches even if you intend to be more careful.

SASS isn't run and gun like modern 3 gun but you aren't just standing in one place slowly shooting and gently putting your guns down either.

[Dapper Dave]

Understood.

I think it holds 7. 

Edit - 9. 

Edited August 18 by Dapper Dave

[Dapper Dave]

I'll advise my buddy - this classic is well out of print, the old style with no cross-bolt safety prior to Remlin.  Thank you for your help. 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

8 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

I'll advise my buddy - this classic is well out of print, the old style with no cross-bolt safety prior to Remlin.  Thank you for your help. 

That's an old one   The cross-bolt safety actually predates Remlin.   It goes all the way back to the final years of Marlin.   But, if I wanted a Marlin, this is one that I'd want, a pre-safety one.  But it's prolly also got a microgroove barrel, which does not work so well with cast bullets.   Or so I understand.

["Big Boston"]

On the magazine capacity issue. The capacity depends on the OAL of the cartridge. The OAL is a factor in smooth feeding as well. 

 

Capacity can be gained by trimming the spring in the magazine to no longer than is needed. Once trimmed the springs stacked length is less, and the magazine space will be longer. I have a '66 with a 16" barrel. With a trimmed spring it holds ten 38s if I keep the OAL to 1.5" or a bit shorter. Feeding issues can happen is the OAL gets below 1.45", so I've got a bit of margin to work with. 

 

I've dabbled with most of the Cowboy calibers, 38/357 is a pretty tough combo to beat. I have old arthritic hands, light recoil lessens fatigue. Even better would be a pair of revolvers in 9mm. IMHO it is a winner in the low recoil, easy to load and about as cheap to shoot as you can get. Even in the real world, a 9mm revolver is pretty handy to have, and ammo of all different types is readily available.

 

The only disadvantage to going with a 9mm is that you can't buy a '73 rifle in 9mm, at least not yet.  That lets you choose a rifle in a larger caliber. The 44-40 feeds and shoots pretty nice in a rifle. 

 

Microgroove with cast? I'd likely try a Hi-Tek or powder coated bullet a bit on the harder side. The issue with cast in a microgroove barrel is more at the higher velocity loads. The only Marlin I have owned was a 44 Mag with 6 groove micro-Ballard barrel. That barrel was picky on what it would shoot, I couldn't sell it fast enough. The 44 Spl/Mag Mag microgroove spec is rather unique in that it is also oversized compared to a Revolver barrel and had a slower twist as well. That made it hard to have a load that worked well in both. YMMV, but that was my experience.

[Griff]

MIcrogroove works fine with cast bullets... IF you use the RIGHT diameter bullet.  Slug the barrel to determine its true groove diameter, that's you're minimum bullet diameter, but adding a thousandth or two will be better.

[Texas Jack Black]

Simple answer 38 cheapest to load and mild to shoot.

This is not rocket science .The Targets are so big and close you could use a smoothbore and still hit them.

 Powder  ,so many options out there. Read.

 

Go to a few matches talk , and handle a few of the toys and watch and watch again. Watch as many CAS videos as you can.

 

Best Wishes and enjoy this is FUN

Edited August 18 by Texas Jack Black

[Dapper Dave]

8 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

That's an old one   The cross-bolt safety actually predates Remlin.   It goes all the way back to the final years of Marlin.   But, if I wanted a Marlin, this is one that I'd want, a pre-safety one.  But it's prolly also got a microgroove barrel, which does not work so well with cast bullets.   Or so I understand.

Yes it is a microgroove barrel. He's shot it with all kinds of bullets without issue, betting that powder coated cast lead will do OK...but I'll ask. 

Yes, I've been loading 38 Special for many years now, to feed this baby, among others. Yes, I've carried this as a CCW sidearm. Loading and casting/powder coating, BTW, the same guy who loaded me the rifle is the guy who got me into casting and powder coating. 

 

Edited August 18 by Dapper Dave

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

17 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

I'll advise my buddy - this classic is well out of print, the old style with no cross-bolt safety prior to Remlin.  Thank you for your help. 

Did you try .38 Special or .357 Magnum?