12 ga 7/8oz light load with #8.5 shot, 14.2grn of TiteWad

[Tall John]

Hi,

 

I just got a new Mec 9000 and I am working up a light load using the Mec #502078 (7/8oz) Charge Bar, #8.5 shot (what's available),  #23 powder bushing which is dropping 14.0-14.2 grains of TightWad, and using the Grey 7/8oz (CB0178-12) wad of which I have about 1,000. 

 

Problem #1 is that my shot weights are 0.92 oz due to the smaller size shot which is not unexpected.

Problem #2 is that my final crimps are a bit concave.  (But they were perfect when I was loading a 1 1/8oz load and the White CBCB1118-12 load).

 

I've read in the manual that I can adjust the crimp but I've also read somewhere here that I can change my wad to increase the internal height to fix the crimp.

 

Thoughts on the best suggestions to fix my crimp?

[Eyesa Horg]

You could try slightly less wad pressure, a much easier adjustment. I've found this last time I loaded that the new STS hulls are slightly taller and do the same. Only a few had a hole though. I run them thru a Quick loader taper tool which pretty much closes them. My old loaded many times STS and Nitro hulls crimp a little different as well. Some have a pun PIN hole and some get the swirl. If the hole is too big, a dab of Elmer's will do ya!!

Edited August 7 by Eyesa Horg
Otto

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Drop a dried red kidney bean in the shot cup before loading the shot.

[Eyesa Horg]

1 minute ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Drop a dried red kidney bean in the shot cup before loading the shot.

Or a Cheerio

[Sam Sackett]

Or one Cheerio!

 

Sam Sackett 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Just now, Eyesa Horg said:

Or a Cheerio

Such a waste 

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

19 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Or a Cheerio

I use a 1/2-inch square of thin cardboard.

 

#8 1/2 shot works well for CAS shotgun targets.  If the shot bounces back it hurts less than larger shot.  It breaks pop-up clays well.

 

I too load CB0178-12 wads.  I load with Alliant Extra-Lite but will switch to Hodgdon Perfect Pattern when the Extra-Lite is consumed as PP has lower cost and better availability.

[Eyesa Horg]

1 hour ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

I use a 1/2-inch square of thin cardboard.

 

#8 1/2 shot works well for CAS shotgun targets.  If the shot bounces back it hurts less than larger shot.  It breaks pop-up clays well.

 

I too load CB0178-12 wads.  I load with Alliant Extra-Lite but will switch to Hodgdon Perfect Pattern when the Extra-Lite is consumed as PP has lower cost and better availability.

I basically do that with Ellie's currently to avoid adjusting the machine, an old Grabber. Due to a bad shoulder she needed some real light loads. I'm using old one piece AAs which are taller and some shorter than STSs; so many had holes I just punched out a crap load of thin cardboard 9/16" dia. overshot cards and drop one on each whether it needs it or not.

[Tall John]

Are any of you using TiteWad?  If so how much for a light 7/8 load or 0.92 oz load.  The book says 15.1 grn for a 1oz load at 1125fps.  Am I too light with 14.2 grains?

 

p.s.  I’ve been shooting 1 1/8oz loads but am told by many that it is overkill and shot isn’t cheap.

Edited August 7 by Tall John

[Sedalia Dave]

48 minutes ago, Tall John said:

Are any of you using TiteWad?  If so how much for a light 7/8 load or 0.92 oz load.  The book says 15.1 grn for a 1oz load at 1125fps.  Am I too light with 14.2 grains?

 

p.s.  I’ve been shooting 1 1/8oz loads but am told by many that it is overkill and shot isn’t cheap.

 

I don't think you are too light.  Drop a dried bean into the shotcup before dropping the shot. 

 

My load is a Remington STS or Gun Club Hull, CB0175-12 wad, 13.2 grains of 700X and 3/4 oz of shot. Less felt recoil than the AA LNLR and it still takes down any KD I hit.

 

Last time I was loading shotshells I ran out of the CB0175-12 wads so I substituted a CB0178-12 wad. Adding a dried bean was all it took to get a nice crimp.

 

BTW the CB0175-12 and the CB-0178 wads are the exact same height. The CB-0175 has a raised plastic button inside the cup to reduce the shot charge.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

57 minutes ago, Tall John said:

Are any of you using TiteWad?  If so how much for a light 7/8 load or 0.92 oz load.  The book says 15.1 grn for a 1oz load at 1125fps.  Am I too light with 14.2 grains?

Take your 14.2 grain loads out on a cold morning and try them.  If they all perform as you hope, keep loading them.  If not, load 15.1 grains.

p.s.  I’ve been shooting 1 1/8oz loads but am told by many that it is overkill and shot isn’t cheap.

I keep a couple 1 1/8 oz game loads on my belt for shotgun targets out of calibration that need extra shove.  However, 7/8 oz or 3/4 oz loads work better for CAS.

 

[Shepherd Book]

I have used a 20 gauge overshot card from Ballistic Products with great success in 12 gauge loads.     SB

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Overshot-Cards-500bag/productinfo/OS/20/

 

Also have used felt filler wads:

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Felt-Wad-20ga-1_4-250_bag/productinfo/1221420/          

[Sam Sackett]

2 hours ago, Tall John said:

Are any of you using TiteWad?  If so how much for a light 7/8 load or 0.92 oz load.  The book says 15.1 grn for a 1oz load at 1125fps.  Am I too light with 14.2 grains?

 

p.s.  I’ve been shooting 1 1/8oz loads but am told by many that it is overkill and shot isn’t cheap.

I’ve been using about 14 grains of Titewad behind 3/4 oz of shot. Seems to work OK so far. 
 

Sam Sackett 

[Wild Eagle]

I run a different powder, but still a #23 powder bushing.  What fixed my problem with the stack height was, first just a little pressure seating the wad, only about 10#, just enough to move the scale so I know I'm bottomed out.  But, the biggest thing I did was to start using a 3/4 oz wad.  Since we use so much less powder than a full power shell, we need to increase the stack height.  7/8 oz of shot in a 3/4 oz wad worked out about perfect for me.  I know several others that are doing the same thing.  To me it's easier since I don't have to do anything extra like adding over shot cards or beans, just change the wad and run shells.

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

I know this doesn’t use the wads you have but I’m loading 7/8oz loads in STS hulls with 9.5gr. Of Perfect Pattern powder (MEC #12 bush) and use a pink 3/4oz wad to bring up the column height and get a good crimp. For 1oz loads I use the grey 7/8oz wads and for 1 1/8oz loads I use the 1oz. Wads.  It works good for me.

 

Randy

Edited August 8 by Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903
Added content

[Silver Creek Jack]

11 hours ago, Tall John said:

Are any of you using TiteWad?  If so how much for a light 7/8 load or 0.92 oz load.  The book says 15.1 grn for a 1oz load at 1125fps.  Am I too light with 14.2 grains?

 

p.s.  I’ve been shooting 1 1/8oz loads but am told by many that it is overkill and shot isn’t cheap.

Myself and several of my Cowboy pardon’s have been using 12 gr. Of Tite-Wad with 1 oz of 7 1/2 shot STS hulls with excellent results for a long time now with no problems.

[Tall John]

10 hours ago, Wild Eagle said:

I run a different powder, but still a #23 powder bushing.  What fixed my problem with the stack height was, first just a little pressure seating the wad, only about 10#, just enough to move the scale so I know I'm bottomed out.  But, the biggest thing I did was to start using a 3/4 oz wad.  Since we use so much less powder than a full power shell, we need to increase the stack height.  7/8 oz of shot in a 3/4 oz wad worked out about perfect for me.  I know several others that are doing the same thing.  To me it's easier since I don't have to do anything extra like adding over shot cards or beans, just change the wad and run shells.

I’ve heard that.  Even though im using a 7/8oz bar, my shot load is closer to an ounce at .0.92 due to using 8.5 shot.  I may try adding a shot card or an cheerio until I go thru the 1,000 wads I have on hand and then try the 3/4 oz wad.

 

thanks for the tip!

[Tall John]

1 hour ago, Silver Creek Jack said:

Myself and several of my Cowboy pardon’s have been using 12 gr. Of Tite-Wad with 1 oz of 7 1/2 shot STS hulls with excellent results for a long time now with no problems.

So what size powder bushing are you using? And what size wad?

[Wild Eagle]

4 hours ago, Tall John said:

I’ve heard that.  Even though im using a 7/8oz bar, my shot load is closer to an ounce at .0.92 due to using 8.5 shot.  I may try adding a shot card or an cheerio until I go thru the 1,000 wads I have on hand and then try the 3/4 oz wad.

 

thanks for the tip!

It's not the weight of the charge that matters, it's the volume.  I'm talking only about stack height on this comment.  Weight is an obvious concern for load development, although less of an issue for our cowboy loads.

Edited August 8 by Wild Eagle
add info

[Silver Creek Jack]

8 hours ago, Tall John said:

So what size powder bushing are you using? And what size wad?

The wads are the white Claybusters CB2100-12, My shotgun shell reloader is a Pacific DL 155 I bought many years ago that had custom made bushings made of delrin, no markings you just have to go through them and weigh until you find the bushing that throws the right amount of powder.

[Sedalia Dave]

@Tall John  If you're interested I have a Multi-Scale adjustable charge bar that I would part with. 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Loading 12 gauge light loads -

You probably can get rid of your sunken crimps by raising your MEC 9000 wad ram/shot drop tube to expose 5 (or even 6) lines on the tube, and adjusting your main crimp die center punch up just a touch.    No, you are not loading really light loads like some cowboys use. 

 

If you feel the need to get shot weights closer to the 7/8 ounce level, you can get aluminum foil tape from hardware store used for sealing ductwork.  It has pre-applied adhesive with a paper backing.   A small strip of that cut to put 1 layer of thickness inside the shot measure cavity will cut down the weight of shot you drop.    Remove extra adhesive that gets on the bar with some brake cleaner.

 

Anytime you change a load on your reloader, you can expect to have to SLIGHTLY tune the wad rammer tube, the crimp starter head, the main crimp die and sometimes even the finish taper crimp die.   Thus, I don't change my loads more often than maybe every 2 years after getting things tuned in.

 

good luck, GJ

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

3 hours ago, Silver Creek Jack said:

custom made bushings made of delrin, no markings you just have to go through them and weigh until you find the bushing that throws the right amount of powder.

 

Might be useful to you to take a vernier caliper and measure inside diameter of those bushings, then write with a sharpie on the outside of the bushing the measurements in thousandths of an inch.  Then your numbers will match exactly what bushing number Pacific (now Hornady) would have stamped on the bushing if they made it.  All my Hornady bushings have such a number on them, even if they are factory stamped with the bushing number.

 

good luck, GJ

[Silver Creek Jack]

Thanks GJ, been meaning to do that forever ,another one of those “ I should do that” jobs that I don’t think about until I need to load a shell! You coming to National’s this Oct?

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

20 minutes ago, Silver Creek Jack said:

coming to National’s

Nope, closer to and like Bordertown a LOT.   I just get one trip in Oct.  Sigh

GJ

[Tall John]

17 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

@Tall John  If you're interested I have a Multi-Scale adjustable charge bar that I would part with. 

Dave,

 

I had one on my Sizemaster which was nice but I only reload for CAS so not sure the cost benefit is there but send me a PM with your asking price and I’ll consider.

[Tennessee River]

Tall John, I’m going through a transition from Clays (now totally out) to 14.1 gr TiteWad, 7/8 oz Coyotes Widow Maker reclaimed shot, CB0178 gray wads, AA Win hulls, Universal Charge Bar on a Mec600Jr. The Titewad is “finer” than the Clays and seems to cause more leakage.   
 

TJ what are you seeing with leakage on a standard bar and are you happy at 14.2gr?

Edited August 11 by Tennessee River

["Big Boston"]

On 8/7/2024 at 7:57 PM, Shepherd Book said:

I have used a 20 gauge overshot card from Ballistic Products with great success in 12 gauge loads.     SB

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Overshot-Cards-500bag/productinfo/OS/20/

 

Also have used felt filler wads:

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Felt-Wad-20ga-1_4-250_bag/productinfo/1221420/          

 

It's been my experience that using a card wad works well for adjusting the internal space, which puts the shell in the zone for a decent crimp. Either over the shot or in the shot cup. Lately I seem to have gone with placing it in the bottom of the shot cup. IMO it works best there. Not that pattern uniformity is all that important for our game, but it gives me a bit of confidence to know if pointing isn't dead on I still get a hit. 

 

Component availability is an issue, so I just use a AA wad, and adjust accordingly. 

 

BTW, instead of buying cards I bought several Arch Punches and I make my own. I use a size that just fits in the bottom of the cup. 

 

 

These are for my 20.

 

BB

["Big Boston"]

On 8/7/2024 at 3:54 PM, Tall John said:

Hi,

 

I just got a new Mec 9000 and I am working up a light load using the Mec #502078 (7/8oz) Charge Bar, #8.5 shot (what's available),  #23 powder bushing which is dropping 14.0-14.2 grains of TightWad, and using the Grey 7/8oz (CB0178-12) wad of which I have about 1,000. 

 

Problem #1 is that my shot weights are 0.92 oz due to the smaller size shot which is not unexpected.

Problem #2 is that my final crimps are a bit concave.  (But they were perfect when I was loading a 1 1/8oz load and the White CBCB1118-12 load).

 

I've read in the manual that I can adjust the crimp but I've also read somewhere here that I can change my wad to increase the internal height to fix the crimp.

 

Thoughts on the best suggestions to fix my crimp?

 

Problem #1 can be overcome by using Skeet bars. They are calibrated for smaller shot. 

 

BB

[Tall John]

4 hours ago, "Big Boston" said:

 

Problem #1 can be overcome by using Skeet bars. They are calibrated for smaller shot. 

 

BB

 

So if I’m using #8.5 shot and I want a 7/8pz load, should I get the 1oz bar since the shot is slightly larger than #9

[Tall John]

On 8/11/2024 at 3:16 PM, Tennessee River said:

Tall John, I’m going through a transition from Clays (now totally out) to 14.1 gr TiteWad, 7/8 oz Coyotes Widow Maker reclaimed shot, CB0178 gray wads, AA Win hulls, Universal Charge Bar on a Mec600Jr. The Titewad is “finer” than the Clays and seems to cause more leakage.   
 

TJ what are you seeing with leakage on a standard bar and are you happy at 14.2gr?

get this and your “snowing” will stop.  Best $10 you can spend if using TiteWad.  He also has a real bearing that replaces the plastic bushing on the charge bar release mechanism and upgraded knobs that make switching charge bars tool free.

 

also make sure that the top of the powder funnel under your bar is flush.  I had a Sizemaster that had this problem and I wrapped a pipe cleaner around the base of the funnel to lift I 1/16th of an inch.  both of these fixes made a huge difference on my Sizemaster and I’ve added the washer kit to my 9000 with good results thus far.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/235341031099?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=KeP_OENNT5i&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=q9TWyRgLRJy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Edited August 13 by Tall John

[watab kid]

now thats a solution i could see working well , once installed you can forget it , the added card and bean /cherio ideas i get no problem but another thing to remember in the process 

["Big Boston"]

On 8/12/2024 at 8:33 PM, Tall John said:

 

So if I’m using #8.5 shot and I want a 7/8pz load, should I get the 1oz bar since the shot is slightly larger than #9

 

Skeet loads typically use #7.5, #8 or #9. For any given cavity, #9 will give the heaviest load. A skeet bar for 7/8 oz will drop 7/8 oz of chilled shot. Extra hard will be lighter. 8.5 and 9 are pretty close, I wouldn't worry about it. The issue with the normal bar is that it will be heavier by enough that the skeet ammo would likely be illegal. Illegal for skeet competition, not cowboy. If you want to drop 7/8 oz, use a 7/8 oz skeet bar. 

 

Bottom line, weigh the shot to verify the what the bar drops, same as what you do for powder. For our game +/- a bit isn't a big deal. I have a few skeet bars because I used to shoot skeet. They aren't that precise because chilled shot is heavier than extra hard and #2 shot will be light and #9 will be heavy for a standard bar. My 1 3/8 bar drops 1 1/4 of #2 extra hard. 1/8 oz is 55 grains. 

 

 

 

BB