Shotgun powder for 45 colt cowboy loads

[Ike the butcher Tuckerson]

It appears that the reloading powders I prefer to use like trail boss or clays is getting hard to find. I am curious if any one has ever used shotgun powder to reload 45 colt 200 g for cowboy loads? It appears to be big and flaky and seems like it might do ok for the light loads. So I am wondering if anyone else has used it before and what your results were? Maybe there is a reason not to use it?

[Three Foot Johnson]

Well yeah... Clays IS a shotgun powder. What are you referencing when you say "shotgun powder"?

Clays isn't particularly hard to find, ya just gotta have deep pockets.

 

Red Dot is probably the next "fluffiest"/least dense powder after Clays. Clay Dot is a good choice for that big case too. I picked up an 8 pounder of Red dot six weeks ago for $367.98, shipped, from Midsouth - $46/pound... none of it is cheap anymore.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

There are MANY shotgun powders that are suitable in .45 Colt light loads.   Most are at least worth using in a pinch.

 

Trail Boss has been long-term discontinued (at least the last 5 years).   Clays has been declared not to be produced due to the Ukraine demand for artillery rounds, so the line for all the "clays family" has been turned over to making artillery powders.     

 

Here's some that are often used:

 

700X              F

Red Dot         F

Green Dot    F

Unique          F

Bullseye        F

Clay Dot        F

WST

ExtraLite       F

TiteWad

TiteGroup  

e3                   F

American Select    F

Perfect Pattern

Nitro 100 New Formulation

Competition

231

 

Yes, the flake powders are easy to load for pistol use because they are less dense than the flattened ball powders that are available.  So, the powders marked with F are flake powders.   However, they are made by Alliant's contractor, which has to fight for production time with the military, so right now they are harder to find.

 

The flattened ball powders are mostly made by Hodgdon contractors, and are cheaper (usually) and a lot more available.

 

I've used TiteGroup (which is now also called High Gun - exactly the same powder)  a lot in .45 Colt.   Winchester WST also.   I'd recommend either of those without hesitation, and you have at least some chance of finding either of them. 

 

good luck, GJ

Edited August 4 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

my go-to 45 Colt powder is Red Dot

 

also have had success with Bullseye (dirty), and Unique

 

 

[Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655]

A2 and Nitro 100 work

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

You can load any cartridge or shotgun ammo used in this game with Unique. 

[Ike the butcher Tuckerson]

Thank you everyone for the feedback. I am new to this and have acquired some things like reloading equipment and powders. I stumbled upon some 800x which was with my shot gun loading equipment. I assumed that it would be ok to use but I wanted to check with pros such as all of you. Thank you again. You all are mighty kind!

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

1 hour ago, Ike the butcher Tuckerson said:

Thank you everyone for the feedback. I am new to this and have acquired some things like reloading equipment and powders. I stumbled upon some 800x which was with my shot gun loading equipment. I assumed that it would be ok to use but I wanted to check with pros such as all of you. Thank you again. You all are mighty kind!

Ike, 800x is not suitable for pistol or shotgun for our game, it is for heavier shotgun loads.

[Ike the butcher Tuckerson]

Thank you

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

In my sordid past, when I dabbled in that Fad Heathen Smokeless stuff, my "Go To" was/is TightGroup.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Ah Poop.  I forgot to include:  My fave load was 4Gr TightGroup, Barnstormer Bullet.  Or a wallopin great 160Gr RNFP.

[Ike the butcher Tuckerson]

I just ordered some tight group to try out.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

8 hours ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

my go-to 45 Colt powder is Red Dot

 

also have had success with Bullseye (dirty), and Unique

 

 

Bulleye is still being stocked in 8-lg jugs.  Yes, it is dirty but cleaner than the black powder many of us shoot.  You can get through six stages shooting Bullseye.

[Ike the butcher Tuckerson]

@Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971I would like to try reloading black powder. I am assuming I would need a different type of bullet and some added additions to my press?

Edited August 5 by Ike the butcher Tuckerson

[El Chapo]

27 minutes ago, Ike the butcher Tuckerson said:

@Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971I would like to try reloading black powder. I am assuming I would need a different type of bullet and some added additions to my press?

 

Talk to people at your local matches about shooting black.  I load it on a single stage and I use the same powder coated bullets I use with smokeless.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

18 minutes ago, Ike the butcher Tuckerson said:

@Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971I would like to try reloading black powder. I am assuming I would need a different type of bullet and some added additions to my press?

Reloading real black powder or Pyrodex is best done with a bullet lubed a black powder-compatible lube such a SPG.  You can buy these, but not as easily as cast bullets lubed for smokeless powder.  An easy entry into the Frontier Cartridge categories is to buy a bottle of APP and load with the bullets you already have.  If you enjoy the experience, you can later buy real black powder and SPG-lubed bullets.  I shot real black powder today and love the fire, boom and smoke.  However, real black powder is hard to purchase locally, and you may have to buy more online than you might ultimately want.  Thus, APP is the cheap, easy entry into the "Dark Side."

 

I meter my real black powder with a Lyman Black Powder measure.  If you lack a compatible measure, you can dip powder for individual charges.  American Pioneer Powder says you can use any powder measure with their product - another reason to first give their product a try.

 

You will enjoy shooting black powder.  It is closer to an Old West experience than shooting smokeless powder.

[Major Hazzard, SASS #23254]

20 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

You can load any cartridge or shotgun ammo used in this game with Unique. 

Absolutely!  I've been settled on Unique for shotgun, .45 Colt and .44-40 for many, many years.  It can also load well in limited applications in .30-30.  

["Big Boston"]

On 8/3/2024 at 8:14 PM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

There are MANY shotgun powders that are suitable in .45 Colt light loads.   Most are at least worth using in a pinch.

 

Trail Boss has been long-term discontinued (at least the last 5 years).   Clays has been declared not to be produced due to the Ukraine demand for artillery rounds, so the line for all the "clays family" has been turned over to making artillery powders.     

 

Here's some that are often used:

 

700X              F

Red Dot         F

Green Dot    F

Unique          F

Bullseye        F

Clay Dot        F

WST

ExtraLite       F

TiteWad

TiteGroup  

e3                   F

American Select    F

Perfect Pattern

Nitro 100 New Formulation

Competition

231

 

Yes, the flake powders are easy to load for pistol use because they are less dense than the flattened ball powders that are available.  So, the powders marked with F are flake powders.   However, they are made by Alliant's contractor, which has to fight for production time with the military, so right now they are harder to find.

 

The flattened ball powders are mostly made by Hodgdon contractors, and are cheaper (usually) and a lot more available.

 

I've used TiteGroup (which is now also called High Gun - exactly the same powder)  a lot in .45 Colt.   Winchester WST also.   I'd recommend either of those without hesitation, and you have at least some chance of finding either of them. 

 

good luck, GJ

 

Choosing a suitable powder is one thing, choosing and adapting an available powder can be another thing altogether, IMHO. 

 

CJ tagged the "F" or flake powders, an important consideration for low loading density. Low density reloads tend to have ignition issues which will show up as larger Es/Sd numbers on the chrono. In addition is the sensitivity to powder position, and again, easy to check with a chronograph. Flake powders tend to "sail" under the turbulence of the jet of hot gases from the primer. Flake powders also tend to contain a good percentage of nitroglycerine, which makes the powder easier to ignite from flake to flake. However, when higher nitroglycerine powders are used, you have to accept the fact that they do burn a bit dirtier than nitrocellulose powders. 

 

Additionally, if you have a choice, choosing the least dense powder will increase the loading density, for the same charge. Here's where I use a bushing chart, lets me easily compare volumes. Say to obtain a target velocity one powder uses 3 grains and another uses 4.5 grains, look up what bushing you'd need. whichever uses the bigger bushing # will fill the case the most. 

 

Now begins the testing, and selecting the other components. Powders tend to prefer specific primers based on load density and bullet weight and to a lesser extent crimp and neck tension. If you test with a chronograph, and check for powder position in addition to raw velocity, and Es/Sd, that task is fairly easy. Even a simple 5 shots powder forward vs 5 shots powder rearward will give you enough data to rate one primer against another. Obviously the data will be more accurate with more data, but you don't  want to use up all your powder and primers just to get a couple of percentage points better data.

 

If you only use one primer, say a Federal with it's softer cup, and find the chrono numbers to be poor, increasing the powder is an option, or seat the bullet deeper or further out can be tried, or go to a heavier (or lighter) bullet. 

 

The criteria I've come to base the suitability of a load are for a Standard Deviation of less than 10 fps for a 5 shot string powder forward, and the same numbers for powder rearward. And for the difference between the powder position average velocity to be no more than 10 fps. I refer to such a load as a 10-10-10-10 load. A 10-10-10 load gets my "Good"  stamp. This is doable, but sometimes this goal is a bit hard to get. In many cases I'll lower that standard to 20-20-20, and my rating for a load that gets those numbers is "Acceptable". A load that will not meet one of those numbers may still be OK. In a rifle the powder usually just sits flat, powder position difference in velocity less of a factor. In a revolver your first shot out of the holster has its powder forward, and if you have bad Sd for powder forward, a miss with your first shot may be the result. You'd be better off having good numbers for that than for powder rearward. If you a poor pistol shot like I am, missing my first shot really messes me up, more misses likely to follow. Hit the first shot and my brain just repeats what worked, or at least I hope it does. 

 

Powder position sensitivity is likely the most telling number. A good number there tells you that the powder and primer are working as a team with good ignition no matter where the powder is in the case. 

 

I'm not sure who posted the powder position testing first, but someone on this site did a few years back and that one hint sure helped with my load development. 

 

BB

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

21 hours ago, Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 said:

A2 and Nitro 100 work

 

Are you trying to abbreviate Accurate #2 as A2?    Never have I seen that done, and it's quite confusing, especially to a new reloader.

 

And, since Nitro 100 powder is no longer made, I would guess you are trying to call out Nitro 100 NF  (new formulation).

 

The mention of 8 pound jugs of Red Dot made me go check stock at several on-line vendors.  Nope, none were in stock wherever I checked.  One site has one-pound bottles though.

 

And, anymore, the shotshell powders made are ALL double-base powders, regardless of Flake or Ball.   That means they all have some nitroglycerin in the powder, all often burn a little dirty in light loads, but since nitroglycerin is a cheap way to add energy to a higher-cost nitrocellulose base in powders, we are going to be using double-base powders from here on out (some European powders are still single-base, if you can find them).

 

good luck, GJ

Edited August 5 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

[Griff]

21 hours ago, Ike the butcher Tuckerson said:

Thank you everyone for the feedback. I am new to this and have acquired some things like reloading equipment and powders. I stumbled upon some 800x which was with my shot gun loading equipment. I assumed that it would be ok to use but I wanted to check with pros such as all of you. Thank you again. You all are mighty kind!

The Hodgdon website lists 800X loads for the 45 Colt, but... note, it's listed as "discontinued".  Also, you would probably want to reduce the minimum charge listed as it's over 800 fps from a 7.25" bbl.  There are some on-line calculators for reduced loads if you know a target fps you'd like.  If you do, I recommend doing the position sensitivity testing described above by Edward R S Canby.  I would also recommend that you purchase a traditional chronograph or radar type like the Garmin for such testing, rather than relying on simply felt recoil.  

 

I'd also recommend that in addition to the great information on the Hodgdon website, I'd, at minimum invest in a couple of Lyman's reloading handbooks.  Volume 51 of their Reloading Handbook, and 4th Edition of their Cast Bullet Handbook.  If you're mainly loading cast bullets, the later would be my 1st purchase.

14 hours ago, Ike the butcher Tuckerson said:

@Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971I would like to try reloading black powder. I am assuming I would need a different type of bullet and some added additions to my press?

I've loaded real BP on my Dillon since I first bought it in 1987.  Prior to that loaded on a single stage RCBS Jr. II.  For the 45 Colt I just use the "rifle" powder slide (larger capacity) as the smaller one is pretty maxed out the 45 Colt case.  Several bullet suppliers provide bullets with a lube suitable for BP.  However, about 3 years ago I got my first case of APP when I realized that my supply of real BP was finite.  Using APP renders the lube type a non-issue, as it compatible with smokeless lube & actually creates its own.  Making use of a powder-coated bullet feasible.   Ergo, I prefer APP when using PC bullets.  For even more efficient loading, use the Cowboy45Special case.  This will nearly halve the amount of BP or APP needed, still giving similar performance.  I use the same die set up as with 45 Colt but substitute the RCBS 45 Auto Rim seater/roll crimp die #18942.  I've been using this setup since ~2004 when I got my first C45S cases from the originator of the round, Adirondak Jack.  Some folks have experienced "clumping/bridging" of APP when run thru a powder measure such as on a Dillon.  I haven't, but I tend to load when humidity is low, since my loading room is out in my non-heated/air conditioned barn.  Plus, I don't usually load over about 500 rounds at a single sitting, nor leave powder in the measure from one session to the next.

 

[Rough 'N Ready Rob]

I load 700X in all my cowboy loads, 38 spl. both 45s and my 38-55 all for cowboy shooting. They have all work good for me. Only thing I can say bad is it shoots a little dirty, a little more brass cleaning.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Well Hi there again Ike 

 

I suddenly had a thought (Oh! the Pain).  Since you asked about using Shotgun Powder for 45 Colt.  Allow me to suggest, since you also seem interested is shooting some smoky stuff.  SO:

 

A BIG PLUS ONE FOR GRIFF !!

 

Instead of your original question, why not switch up and use APP for both???  The loading recipe is super simple.  The clean-up is super easy.  The availability of APP is primo.  Just give Scarlett Darlin call/missive and it'll arrive at yer front door.  I've been loading APP thru my two DILLON 650s for years now.  So just FYI, 2F APP DOES NOT meter well thru ANY powder measure.  I reserve 2F APP for my ALL BRASS 12Ga loads which I scoop.  3f APP meters thru my DILLON powder measures just fine although I do prefer the larger powder bar and do rely on the powder alarm to keep me honest.  Yule only ever have to keep track of one powder.  Just super simple.

 

I also strongly SECOND the suggestion from Griff.  Give Cowboy 45 Special cases a try.  160Gr bullets with an easy load are an absolute JOY to shoot.  If you have any questions in that regard, just shoot me a PM. 

[SHOOTIN FOX]

Pistol 45 Colt 200 gr RNFP

Starting Load

Maximum Load

Availability

Manufacturer

Powder

C.O.L.

Grs.

Vel. (ft/s)

Pressure

Grs.

Vel. (ft/s)

Pressure

Hodgdon

800-X

1.600"

7.2

842

8,700 PSI

9.3

1,042

13,500 PSI

Discontinue

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

You can use Unique powder to load just about anything.