What On God's Green Earth Was THAT?

[DocWard]

On 7/19/2024 at 12:00 PM, Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 said:

,( ironic since they nominated a self professed "hillbilly" for vice pres) 

 

On 7/20/2024 at 6:33 AM, Rye Miles #13621 said:

JD Vance is far from a hillbilly!! Yea he was raised in that fashion but he’s not a hillbilly! He’s an articulate educated ex marine.

 

He is less of a hillbilly than I am. We were both born in the rust belt, of Scots-Irish, Appalachian ancestry. His grandparents on both sides moved to Ohio from Kentucky. On the other hand, my parents moved to Ohio from Kentucky.

 

Oh, and there are no "ex" Marines. Ask any Marine veteran.

 

As for the rendition of the National Anthem, it was strictly "meh." People like to sing along, to feel that they're a part of it. That can be done even with those who "make it their own" if they don't have the long dramatic pauses and syncopation as this one did.

[Blackwater 53393]

Many of the “hillbillies” that many seem to discount have proven to be some of the most intelligent, learned, individuals in our history!!  
 

From military geniuses to diplomats to presidents and leaders of nations, those “hillbillies” have represented themselves well, some with little or no formal education, but well endowed with good common sense and strict integrity!!

 

Many of our most celebrated heroes and people who were more than instrumental in the success, development, and expansion of our nation came down out of the hills and mountains of Appalachia and the Ozarks and made their presence felt!!

 

It’s unwise to underestimate them!

 

 

[DocWard]

9 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

Many of the “hillbillies” that many seem to discount have proven to be some of the most intelligent, learned, individuals in our history!!  
 

From military geniuses to diplomats to presidents and leaders of nations, those “hillbillies” have represented themselves well, some with little or no formal education, but well endowed with good common sense and strict integrity!!

 

Many of our most celebrated heroes and people who were more than instrumental in the success, development, and expansion of our nation came down out of the hills and mountains of Appalachia and the Ozarks and made their presence felt!!

 

It’s unwise to underestimate them!

 

Been reading Born Fighting; How the Scots-Irish Shaped America again? Or, if you haven't, I think you would enjoy it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not denigrating "hillbillies." I'm personally somewhat proud of my ancestry. Heck, I recently went searching for the graves of my fifth and fourth Great Grandfathers in Offutt, Kentucky. I'm simply pointing out Vance isn't quite as much a hillbilly as he may claim or seem.

[Ozark Huckleberry]

On 7/21/2024 at 10:29 AM, Subdeacon Joe said:

I don't see a performer giving hisbor her best at a traditional rendition as condescending. 

 

Neither do I. To quote (emphasis added):

 

On 7/21/2024 at 9:23 AM, Ozark Huckleberry said:

I don’t see a traditional performance as mediocre, if that’s the best the performer has. 

 

On 7/21/2024 at 9:23 AM, Ozark Huckleberry said:

A performer whose style and skill makes them capable of more than the narrow ‘traditional’ rendition, but dials back their performance, is holding back their best. That’s not respectful, it’s condescending. 

 

 

 

On 7/21/2024 at 10:29 AM, Subdeacon Joe said:

Again,  I'm not denying that her version, with a score that pays a loose homage to our National Anthem was a marvelous artistic piece. But I think it was as out of place as a temperance speaker at a Superbowl kegger. 

 

'Loose homage'? The first half was pretty much on-point, other than a little tempo rubato, but then everyone 'mis-tempos' the anthem a bit, in my opinion. The brief oratory bridge and contemporary lyrics threw the crowd off -- for most of them, the discomfiture was likely because they had no way of knowing it was a departure from the lyrics, and they felt exposed for not knowing it. Still others tried to appear they were singing along. For both, they were missing the message Ms. Millben was offering in the second part -- that the American dream is still alive, and the U.S. is still that 'City on a Hill' for those who believe in freedom.

 

Obviously you missed that part, too. I'm sorry, but it seems you were too caught up in your own self to appreciate her efforts.

 

Ms Millben offered her performance in a delivery with which she hoped to share her passion and optimism for our nation with the attendees at the republican convention. EVERYTHING at that convention was politic-centric and highly orchestrated to convey a specific message. You think the national anthem should have been the one thing that wasn't?

 

But even at ball parks, if a singer draws on his or her talent to deliver a rendition that they see as an expression of their love for our nation, it's not being a show-off, it's the entertainer hoping to draw the crowd with them.

 

On 7/21/2024 at 10:29 AM, Subdeacon Joe said:

Imagine Inserting a spectacular and  inspiring performance of something from Rent into Carmen.  It may be an artistically perfect rendition,  but it's out of place. 

 

Ad aburdum hypothetical. 

 

ETA:

 

On 7/21/2024 at 9:06 AM, Subdeacon Joe said:

But I guess that's "mediocre" because people will know what is coming and how to sing with it.

 

Why do you think it's 'mediocre'? I've heard it before and appreciate their presentation -- it's definitely truer in pacing and interpretation to what I would prefer. On the other hand, they reprise the last phrase from each verse. That would catch crowds trying to sing along in the stands off-guard. so I would think this rendition would be offensive to you rather than to me. After all, the performers are just 'showing off'.

 

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

2 hours ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

for most of them, the discomfiture was likely because they had no way of knowing it was a departure from the lyrics, and they felt exposed for not knowing it.

 

 

Ah!  So now the audience is a bunch of ignorant louts.  Got it.  Dollars to doughnuts most of them knew that what she sang after her oration were not one of the four verses of it.  

 

2 hours ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

Still others tried to appear they were singing along. For both, they were missing the message Ms. Millben was offering in the second part -- that the American dream is still alive, and the U.S. is still that 'City on a Hill' for those who believe in freedom.

 

 

FINALLY!  You are now admitting that it WASN'T the national anthem but a personal message.  

 

2 hours ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

Ad aburdum hypothetical. 

 

Not at all.  An example of how clashing it was.

 

2 hours ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

'Loose homage'? The first half was pretty much on-point, other than a little tempo rubato, but then everyone 'mis-tempos' the anthem a bit, in my opinion

 

 

Yes, they do.  But usually not to the point of making it impossible for others to join in.

 

2 hours ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

On 7/21/2024 at 7:29 AM, Subdeacon Joe said:

I don't see a performer giving hisbor her best at a traditional rendition as condescending. 

 

Neither do I. To quote (emphasis added):

 

On 7/21/2024 at 6:23 AM, Ozark Huckleberry said:

I don’t see a traditional performance as mediocre, if that’s the best the performer has. 

 

On 7/21/2024 at 6:23 AM, Ozark Huckleberry said:

A performer whose style and skill makes them capable of more than the narrow ‘traditional’ rendition, but dials back their performance, is holding back their best. That’s not respectful, it’s condescending. 

 

Arguing out of both sides of your mouth.  You are implying, strongly implying, that any singer who doesn't go into flights of fancy is somehow dialing it back.  Sort of, well, if all they are capable of is a mediocre rendition by singing it fairly straight forward, fine.  

 

I guess this guy didn't give it his all because he didn't turn it into a full blown, 10 minute long operatic piece.  Yeah, a few personal touches, but well within the usual range of large venue performances.
 

This guy pushes it a bit more at the end and makes it hard to sing along with, but still reasonably straight forward.  
But he's obviously "capable" of doing so much more to it.

 

 

Yep, both are just mediocre at best.

[Ozark Huckleberry]

4 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Ah!  So now the audience is a bunch of ignorant louts.  Got it.  Dollars to doughnuts most of them knew that what she sang after her oration were not one of the four verses of it.  

Oh for pity's sakes, you are really stretching now. I'd venture that the vast majority of good patriotic Americans know the anthem has more than one verse,  but have NO IDEA what the lyrics to any verse beyond the first are, and would assume that as long as the was melody was right that whatever was sung must be a verse they didn't know. Not knowing the words to the National Anthem isn't evidence that someone is an ignorant lout, any more than invoking pagan deities is evidence a Christian cleric is actually an apostate.

 

4 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

FINALLY!  You are now admitting that it WASN'T the national anthem but a personal message.  

 

???? Umm, for anyone who actually knows the lyrics, it would be kind of hard to ignore that the SECOND verse she offered wasn't from the Star Spangled Banner, and I haven't suggested otherwise. Ms Millben performed the first verse of the Star Spangled Banner as is commonly done, then added an inspiring message. You take exception to the way that message was presented. Again, you seem to be so caught up with indignation she didn't comply with your paradigm that you missed a beautifully offered message. Pity.

 

But you want to think you 'got me' on something, go ahead. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Arguing out of both sides of your mouth.  You are implying, strongly implying, that any singer who doesn't go into flights of fancy is somehow dialing it back. 

 

Again with the misrepresentation. Where do I say that a singer capable of flights of fancy MUST include that in their performance? Listen to any performing artist's catalogue, and you find that they don't sing every song with embellishments. So they don't sing the Star Spangled Banner with embellishments? Doesn't diminish their performance one bit. But if during their performance their love of the nation inspired them to add those embellishments but they decided not to because some grumpy old guy might not approve, then that IS condescension. How would we ever know? Probably wouldn't, unless at some later time the singer revealed they wanted to offer more but instead chose to pander to the crowd. 

 

4 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Yep, both are just mediocre at best.

 

Don't know why you think the performances were mediocre. I am a bit surprised that you considered Meacham's rendition acceptable, given the way he changed the melody a bit and performed it ritardando. The way both of them belted the anthem out and added operatic embellishments should have violated your prohibition against showing off.

[Alpo]

7 hours ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

The brief oratory bridge and contemporary lyrics threw the crowd off

I didn't watch the whole video that Joe posted. When she sang the line and then stopped - apparently so the audience could appreciate her performance - I clicked out of it. Because it obviously was not the national anthem.

 

But if I'm reading what you said correctly, at some point she stopped singing and started talking (brief oratory bridge)? And then when she started singing again she was making up her own lyrics (and contemporary lyrics)?

 

And you think this is fine?

[Ozark Huckleberry]

16 hours ago, Alpo said:

I didn't watch the whole video that Joe posted. When she sang the line and then stopped - apparently so the audience could appreciate her performance - I clicked out of it. Because it obviously was not the national anthem.

 

But if I'm reading what you said correctly, at some point she stopped singing and started talking (brief oratory bridge)? And then when she started singing again she was making up her own lyrics (and contemporary lyrics)?

 

And you think this is fine?

 

On the 'you think this is fine' bit, a few things to note:

 

- Some people think of national conventions as, 'business meetings'. While there are business meetings at the convention, the convention itself was, and has long been, more pep rally than business meeting. Primary documents as far back as the 1800s refer to party conventions as raucous and noisy, with festive atmospheres. In modern conventions there are by turns: business conducted on the floor, entertainment provided, speeches made, and empty halls. The national anthem you and others have passed judgement on was performed during the entertainment turn.

 

- She wasn't 'making up' anything during the bridge and the second verse. The oratory and additional lyrics had already been written and were well-rehearsed. That's why the accompaniment was able to follow her. 

 

- It's safe to say that nothing was performed on the RNC stage that was not rehearsed, reviewed and approved, and carefully choreographed into the evening's bill. Timing, content, message -- every nuance of anything a performer planned to do on stage would be scrutinized, nothing would be left to chance, no opening would be given for something to be turned to political advantage by competing parties. Ms Millben's performance was obviously fine with national political leaders who were well aware of what she was going to perform and sanctioned both the anthem and the uplifting message she added.

 

So yes -- I, and plenty of other people with a lot more at stake, think it was 'fine'.

 

And I infer you don't:

 

Oh well. Welcome to America. You can have your opinion, and you are welcome to it; I can have mine, and I am equally welcome to really not caring whether you agree with it or not. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

Well since it is America one can sing the Anthem however they want. As long as they have the right words and are on key I'm okay with it. I do however PREFER a nice straight version of it, in tempo and on key and no "hot dogging"., but that's just my opinion!

[Blackwater 53393]

YAWN!!!!   ZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

Are we there yet???