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Old VS New Uberti 73 Rifles?


Cholla

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I was told by a well-known cowboy gunsmith that an older Uberti 73 is not made the same as a new 73, so parts will not interchange, and making it run smoothly and fast would cost a great deal more than I would want to spend. What is the dividing line between old and new, serial number-wise? How can a person know the difference without taking it apart?

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Posted (edited)

I don't know dates exactly, but I am pretty sure if you have a Uberti 1866 or 73 that has a serial number beginning with a "W" it is considered a newer one.

Edited by July Smith
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Is there merit to the claim that parts are different?  Which parts have been changed?

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From what I have read one of the easiest ways is to check the firing pin diameter, the old ones were 10 mm and the new ones are 8 mm. Simple test for this is to take an empty 38 or 357 case and if it will slip over the hammer side of the firing pin, it’s 8 mm

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I have a 73 carbine that does not have the firing pin follower retracter

                                                                                                                                 Largo

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Posted (edited)

As far as I know the firing pin extension retainer pin is the only difference.  I have a '73 made in 1985 (ser # 508xx) and one from 2014 (ser # W568xx).  The short stroke kits I bought both fit either model.  The same short stroke kit also fits my 2007 Uberti 1860, (ser # 279xx). but I haven't checked its FPE pin to compare.  I got the PGW "Super Short Stroke Kit".  ISTR that the earlier bolt can be drilled to accept the new, larger diameter pin.

Edited by Griff
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None of it is really rocket science. 

It just takes a little more fitting of the new parts in a old rifle. 

The new rifles are more standardized and most parts will drop in and run .

The old rifles the parts need to be fitted to your rifle .

 

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I find that opening statement attributed to "A Well Know Cowboy Gunsmith" to be somewhat suspect.  There have been some changes to the '73, none of which pertain to its geometry.  The "older" Uberti toggle link rifles had the Firing Pin Extension Rod retained by a small cross pin, which was prone to fail at an Out Of Battery discharge.  Uberti changed to a bit larger pin.  Subsequently. Uberti dropped the cross pins and went to a retaining plate similar to the Retractor of a Winchester.  Uberti DOES NOT support obsolete parts.  The New Breach Block (Bolt) cannot be interchanged with the old one.  It takes a "kit, including the Breach Block, the little rocker plate and a new Extension Rod.  I am unfamiliar with a Change to the Firing Pin itself??  Uberti also changed the Cartridge Guide  Tab to be replaceable in the new Breach Blocks.  If you have a rifle built in the last 10 - 15 years, ALL of the After-Market Go Fast parts will work nicely.  It ALWAYS take some judicious rubbin-n-buffin and a change of the springs.  You will only run into a Hic-Up if an older Breach Block needs replaced.  The old cross pin breach blocks are unavailable.

 

It is possible to go back far enough to get into the really old guns with "short" Carrier Blocks and "short" Breach Blocks but we should be talking REALLY old guns.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

It is possible to go back far enough to get into the really old guns with "short" Carrier Blocks and "short" Breach Blocks but we should be talking REALLY old guns.

CC, IIRC, that was only on the '66s, the '73 were always built to accept the .44-40.  Yer right about the FPE retention method,  None of mine have the  new style, just the newest has the larger pin.  .

Edited by Griff
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Posted (edited)

I recall some past posts from @Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 indicating that at some point the size of the groove in the bottom of the frame opening that the bolt rides in changed.  So to fit a newer bolt in one of these older frames, that groove needs to be milled wider.  Or something like that?

 

Edited by Abilene, SASS # 27489
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37 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I recall some past posts from @Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 indicating that at some point the size of the groove in the bottom of the frame opening that the bolt rides in changed.  So to fit a newer bolt in one of these older frames, that groove needs to be milled wider.  Or something like that?

 

 

This was in a post about carriers.  The newer bolts have wider guides on the bottom and this requires a carrier with a wider bottom slot.  Old carriers need the groove to be milled wider to accept the newer bolts.  Don't recall if I measured the groove in the frame but logic would dictate that also needs to be larger.

 

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P4082998.thumb.jpeg.ec5ec758a944238b365d562088519275.jpeg

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I believe this is what he was talking about: "The "older" Uberti toggle link rifles had the Firing Pin Extension Rod retained by a small cross pin, which was prone to fail at an Out Of Battery discharge.  Uberti changed to a bit larger pin.  Subsequently. Uberti dropped the cross pins and went to a retaining plate similar to the Retractor of a Winchester.  Uberti DOES NOT support obsolete parts. "

 

Both of my Uberti 73 rifles have that little cross pin.

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Uberti only sells the new style retaining plate bolt parts.  For the old guns the bolt, firing pin extension and retainer plate come as a kit.  The old style cross pins are super simple to replace.  Piano wire or a drill bit are as good as the original pins.  Not an issue that would have anything to do with "making it run smoothly and fast would cost a great deal more than I would want to spend."  He was more likely talking about the old Navy Arms 66s.  They are different and there are no replacement parts.  73s were never made with the old 66 short style carrier.  (And links and other parts.)  At any rate without "him" being here to explain what he meant the guesses have been pretty well exhausted.

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Hmmm. No one has mentioned the earlier 66's with the larger diameter firing pin extension. I know those are not made any longer. A new bolt can be fitted very easily with the smaller diameter hole.

kR

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Posted (edited)

Well I've been tuning these guns since the early 90's. I use to do the old Cut, Bend and Weld method but stopped that when the aftermarket parts became available. IMO the differences don't make tuning up a new gun any different that an old one. If you need a new bolt and can't fix your old one, then yeah... you will have to buy the new bolt assembly. For the most part they are a drop in. I have a carrier from one of my early 66 38 special only rifles. As far as I know that was the only gun that was available as 38 special only. Still, no big deal. I think that my early Navy Arms 73 has had every set of after market toggles ever made put in it at some point, That included the 4th Gen kits. They all worked. the gun is still in use and set up with a 3rd gen C/I. 

 

Just a after thought comment. I did prefer some of the earlier after market toggles to some I've gotten more recently.  

 

Snakebite

Edited by Snakebite
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The old Navy Arms guns are completely different, and I have ran into a 66 that had some newer style parts, and older style parts. My main match 73 does not have the W in serial number, and I have used all factory and aftermarket parts for it with the exception of an aluminum carrier which was too tight in the window, and the lower tang is not interchangeable with W and newer H guns.

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I bought a new '73 at Winter Range years ago that broke the small cross pin the first day and stage of the match. A quick trip to Jim Bowie fixed it with a piece of piano wire and has worked ever since. He indicated the soft wire was more forgiving while the original was kinda brittle. Thank you Jim for your service to me and others. 

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I have seen in other posts here that there are certain Navy Arms rifles even though made by Uberti, cannot use the newer Uberti rifle parts. I am sure that this will be elaborated on by people more knowledgeable than I as to the dates. 

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I have a old Navy Arms Uberti 66 .

The rifle runs great .

The only thing that is really different from my point of view is the shooter is a hell of a lot older then he used to be .

And have parts fitted to him cost a hell of a lot more then the rifle !

Screenshot_20240218_192345_Photos.thumb.jpg.650af613a96371eafc991ef2b28cc076.jpg

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DISCLAMER!!

 

I've been retired six or eight years now and can't really speak for the "newest" iterations.  It is quite possible a change to the "new" replaceable cartridge guide tab Breach Block (bolt) may also require a new Carrier Block??  Pettifoggers Tin Types would indicate that may be the case.

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17 hours ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

I have a old Navy Arms Uberti 66 .

The rifle runs great .

The only thing that is really different from my point of view is the shooter is a hell of a lot older then he used to be .

And have parts fitted to him cost a hell of a lot more then the rifle !

Screenshot_20240218_192345_Photos.thumb.jpg.650af613a96371eafc991ef2b28cc076.jpg

Haven’t had any replaced yet, but had a few removed battling cancer. Did get some stints put in from a couple of heart attacks. 
I remembered a post a while ago that was saying your Navy has no replacement parts for it. If I am wrong my bad. Enjoy your 66, and that Remington you beat me out of!  I had wanted it as a souvenir relating to my Great Grandfather being kidnapped y the James gang and taking a bullet out of Frank James!  Have to keep looking

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2 hours ago, Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 said:

Haven’t had any replaced yet, but had a few removed battling cancer. Did get some stints put in from a couple of heart attacks. 
I remembered a post a while ago that was saying your Navy has no replacement parts for it. If I am wrong my bad. Enjoy your 66, and that Remington you beat me out of!  I had wanted it as a souvenir relating to my Great Grandfather being kidnapped y the James gang and taking a bullet out of Frank James!  Have to keep looking

You are right there are No Drop in replacement parts for the older rifles. 

But that don't mean with a little elbow grease and some flat stones you can't make thing still work .

Just Sayin. 

Sorry about the Remington. 

If I ever decide to let it go I will let you know .

Don't be in a hurry they do come around. 

God bless. 

Rooster 

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Thanks, I will, I believe I need a .44-40, saw Frank’s in a collection that Bill Koch had on exhibition once in West Palm Beach, but can’t remember for sure if it was a .44-40. 
You are right as well in doing an action job, I was talking about replacement parts. I don’t understand why your parts don’t match current Uberti parts?

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On 7/2/2024 at 7:36 PM, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

The latest 73’s start with an H

"H" is probably the newest series. All other serial numbers are older models. Here in Germany we hear about the same problems. Does anyone here have a rifle from the "H" series that has a "race-ready" tuning and can report on it?

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8 hours ago, Lassy LaRock said:

"H" is probably the newest series. All other serial numbers are older models. Here in Germany we hear about the same problems. Does anyone here have a rifle from the "H" series that has a "race-ready" tuning and can report on it?

 

Lassy shoot Shotgun Boogie an email.  His website is https://sbgwllc.com

 

He had Uberti run off a batch of rifles with all of his speed parts installed in them.  They are easily recognizable as they have gold plated hammers, triggers and loading gates.  Several local shooters are using guns from this special batch.  Some of his parts on his website are labelled for "W" and "H" series guns only.

 

34_1.jpg.c7db63ec1131b4427581bd005d02e1ec.jpg

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