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Ruger Old Army


Moe T Vator

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In Plainsman, how many more participants would there be if the Ruger old army with adjustable sights were allowed? 
 

aside from aesthetics, is there any shooter advantage for using fixed sights vs adjustable in a one handed shooting division? 

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Every time SASS loosens the rules or adds categories the net effect on shooter numbers is usually zero.  This comes up every year or so.  The C&B shooters are concerned about aesthetics and usually vote it down.  This is sort of like the argument of what would have happened if Custer had taken a Gatling gun to the Little Big Horn.  He didn't.  He is dead.  So is this proposal.

Edited by Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933
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I've always wondered about the adjustable sight rule. As they are legal in some categories, can't say I have ever seen anybody adjusting one at a match! So other than aesthetics, what is the issue?

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6 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Every time SASS loosens the rules or adds categories the net effect on shooter numbers is usually zero.  This comes up every year or so.  The C&B shooters are concerned about aesthetics and usually vote it down.  This is sort of like the argument of what would have happened if Custer had taken a Gatling gun to the Little Big Horn.  He didn't.  He is dead.  So is this proposal.

This is not a proposal, it is a question. 

It is a request for understanding because new students ask me and if I tell them ‘well that’s just how it has always been so we don’t change it because the old farts said so’ always results in them not coming back. 
 

Custer could have taken 3 gatlings and a howitzer. His firepower was not his undoing, rather his arrogance…

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It might help those who load conical bullets instead of round balls.  Shooters could adjust their sights for point-of-aim.  This would help very few shooters.  Many plainsman already dislike ROAs in that match.  Adjustable sights on any percussion revolver would just increase the hostility.  There is nothing to be gained by angering the existing plainsman.

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I'd bet money that there would be no increase in Plainsman participation.  Everyone I know that shoots Plainsman already has the guns to legally shoot Frontiersman, so the inclusion of a long out of production ROA with adjustable sights doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

If you already shoot black powder, already have a legal single shot rifle, do you really have a pair of adjustable sight ROA and not a pair of fixed sight percussion guns?  

 

 

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I don't think that allowing the inclusion of the most expensive of the percussion revolvers.  (A pair of them is required).  That have been out of production for quite a while, would do much for participation.  There has been so little interest in Plainsman in many areas, that the matches aren't even held anymore.   That's sad because I really enjoy it.  

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A lot of SASS rules are evolutionary.  There use to be a Modern category for adjustable sights.  Why is it gone?  When Senior duelist was first introduced some people switched to adjustable sights since "age" based categories are allowed to use adjustable sights.  Then SASS decided the underlying category was not age based so adjustable sights would not be allowed in Senior, Silver Senior, etc., variations of those categories.  (E.g. Duelist, Gunfighter)  Why are ejectors not allowed on SxS shotguns when they are allowed on pump and lever guns?  Why can't your crossdraw holster be set at more than 30 degrees?  Why, why, why?  If someone will not take up Chess unless the instructor can explain why each piece can only move in a particular direction or pattern they are not going to be playing Chess.

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2 hours ago, Moe T Vator said:

aside from aesthetics, is there any shooter advantage for using fixed sights vs adjustable in a one handed shooting division? 

Adjustable sights offer a far superior sight picture to fixed sight revolvers, especially when comparing the sights offered by open top percussion revolvers.  With the big and close targets that seem typical in SASS the advantage is probably less so, but yes it is still an advantage.  The last Plainsman match I shot definitely had a few handgun targets on a stage that were far enough out that an adjustable sighted ROA could be seen as an unfair advantage.

Edited by July Smith
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Yep and an empty hull in a shotgun is a 10 second penalty while a live round in a revolver is a 5 second penalty.  I am glad Moe brought this topic up.  Combined with the sad news about the passing of Wildshot's wife Mrs. Slickshot I am nostalgic for the Wild Bunch.  They owned, operated and made the rules for SASS.  I miss the Judge, the General, Hipshot, Tex, Wildshot, Coyote Calhoun and the others that were on the Wild Bunch from time to time.  Hell, I even miss Chiseler.  Life was simple then.  If the Wild Bunch said something was OK it was OK.  If the Wild Bunch said something was not OK it was not OK.  That is all anyone needed to know.

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LEAVE.   PLAINSMAN.   ALONE.  Plainsman is just fine as is.

 

OOPS!!  Sorry.  The original question.  NONE.  ZERO.  NADA.

 

PLUS ONE for Pettifogger - et ALL you betcha.

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I've never seen anyone shoot plainsman in a match I've been to or shot in.  I did shoot with one guy who shot Blackhawks because he said he couldn't hit anything with fixed sights.  I never heard anyone else complain about fixed sights or express any anxiety shooting with fixed sights.  A few trick their guns out with fat front sights. The thin front sight blade on the first generation Colt SAAs require more squinting. 

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On 6/24/2024 at 9:08 AM, Moe T Vator said:

In Plainsman, how many more participants would there be if the Ruger old army with adjustable sights were allowed? 

None. I don't know anywhere Plainsman is shot on a regular basis. I know of one club in Montana that puts on a combination Cowboy/Plainsman match once a year at a regular monthly shoot. The pistol targets are the same for Cowboy/Plainsman, but the Plainsman rifle targets are set at about 75 yards or so.

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23 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

But yet, short stroke rifles and revolvers are perfectly OK. But adjustable revolver sights, create an unfair advantage.  :wacko:

SMDH :lol:

At the time, targets were more likely to be MUCH farther away than today's setups, and often less than 1/2 the size commonly seen today.  Plus Blackhawks, New Frontiers, & the ROAs of the time had much better & more easily aquired sights, than did SAAs, clones & cap & ball pistols.  So it WAS a distinct advantage.  Short strokes were also not as widespread as today.  In fact I didn't see a single one until the 1990s.  There was a reason the first 6 or 7 winners of EOT used Blackhawks:  you had to aim!  In fact, the first winner of EOT used a Blackhawk in .30 Carbine.  Plainsman, for most of its competitors is more about the firearms of that period,  or their copies, the ROA simply doesn't fit.  It's why .45-70s, .38-55s are so popular for rifles.  Although I use an 1885 LowWall in 45 Colt, I simply find it ideal in terms of recoil & "handiness" for nearly all matches,  and more convenient than adding another rifle.  Maybe I'll take my scope off my HiWall in .32-40.  NOT!!

Edited by Griff
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I shot a plainsman at both EOT and Utah State this year- both with my ROAs that ran flawlessly.  There were shooters whose stock, Italian guns jammed and misfired constantly.  Few of the Italian clones are ready for a match out of the box.

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22 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

I've never seen anyone shoot plainsman in a match I've been to or shot in.  I did shoot with one guy who shot Blackhawks because he said he couldn't hit anything with fixed sights.  I never heard anyone else complain about fixed sights or express any anxiety shooting with fixed sights.  A few trick their guns out with fat front sights. The thin front sight blade on the first generation Colt SAAs require more squinting. 

 

Are you saying you've never been to a match that offered a Plainsman sidematch??
(REF: SHB p.29)

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1 hour ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

Are you saying you've never been to a match that offered a Plainsman sidematch??
(REF: SHB p.29)

 

Most of my shooting experience has been local. No Plainsman that I recall. We went and watched several big multday matches but only the standard big match. They probably had Plainsman side match, but I didn't see it. 

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The New England state matches offer Plainsman as a 3 stage side match. Lots of fun!!

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19 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

The New England state matches offer Plainsman as a 3 stage side match. Lots of fun!!

Unfortunately I'd have to drive thru NY to get there... I don't like leaving the USA...:P

Edited by Griff
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