Take THAT! High School English Teachers!

[Subdeacon Joe]

 

I firmly believe that high school English teachers did more to drive people away from an appreciation of literature, poetry, and theatre than any five other reasons combined.

[Rip Snorter]

I learned to read and to love to read at home before any school.  I was fortunate, in a different era, to have several wonderful teachers / professors along the way.  Basic skill and advancing that is important, but some direction in things to read moving forward is invaluable.  Apparently I was lucky and your experiences were less so.

[Subdeacon Joe]

2 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

I learned to read and to love to read at home before any school.  I was fortunate, in a different era, to have several wonderful teachers / professors along the way.  Basic skill and advancing that is important, but some direction in things to read moving forward is invaluable.  Apparently I was lucky and your experiences were less so.

 

True.  I was in high school in the mid-1970s, so it may have been a bit different.  I mostly learned to read, believe it or not, from working my way through Rick O'Shay comic strips every day.

But the emphasis shouldn't be on the "What did the author mean by this?" garbage for every sentence.  "Why did the author say it this way rather than some other way?"  

And in poetry, hammering on the meter rather than paying attention to the phrasing and punctuation.  
For example, our English teachers would have you:
 

It is an ancient Mariner,

(pause)

And he stoppeth one of three.

(pause)

'By thy long grey beard and glittering eye,

(pause)

Now wherefore stopp'st thou me?

(pause)

 

The Bridegroom's doors are opened wide,

(pause)

And I am next of kin;

(pause)

The guests are met, the feast is set:

(long pause)

May'st hear the merry din.'

(pause)

He holds him with his skinny hand,

(pause)

'There was a ship,' quoth he.

(pause)

'Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!'

(pause)

Eftsoons his hand dropt he.

(pause)

He holds him with his glittering eye—

(pause)

The Wedding-Guest stood still,

(pause)

And listens like a three years' child:

(long pause)

The Mariner hath his will.

 

Beating the rhyming words to death and not reading it in a natural, flowing way.  

Not as bad as Prof. Prichard, but close
 

 

 

[Rip Snorter]

Gimme a break.  Every literate person has filters.  I can recall, as a college athlete, calling out a Prof who was never in athletics, trying to interpret a WW story about a champion level athlete who was handicapped to the extent that what was past was gone in future.  I'm sure he was enraged, but decent enough that I got a B+ for A- work.

Edited June 17 by Rip Snorter

[J-BAR #18287]

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[Subdeacon Joe]

11 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

Gimme a break.  Every literate person has filters.  I can recall, as a college athlete, calling out a Prof who was never in athletics, trying to interpret a WW story about a champion level athlete who was handicapped to the extent that what was past was gone in future.  I'm sure he was enraged, but decent enough that I got a B+ for A- work.

 

I recall only one English teacher,  a substitute we had for 2 weeks in 10th grade, who didn't stop correct students who didn't hammer poetry that way.   

[Rip Snorter]

1 minute ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

I recall only one English teacher,  a substitute we had for 2 weeks in 10th grade, who didn't stop correct students who didn't hammer poetry that way.   

Did you ever write a poem?  I have, hundreds, Did you ever have a teacher who was a nationally known poet who gave you private tutoring?  Did you have the good fortune to have a coaching session with a guy like Steven Spender?  Or Lotte Lenya? Or Allen Ginsberg?  Different days, and more folks than I can recall.  BTW, I can shoot with either hand and chew gum at the same time.

[Alpo]

All the way through school, English teachers would harp on the literature.

 

WHY DID THE AUTHOR WRITE THIS POEM? WHY DID THE AUTHOR WRITE THIS SHORT STORY?

 

And I pretty much gave them the same answer every year and every year, and it pissed them off right and left.

 

He wrote that story because it was his job and he did it to make money.

 

Nobody liked that. That wasn't what they wanted to hear.

 

I read that Edgar Poe did not like scary stories. But that's what people were buying, so that's what he wrote. It was his profession. He wrote stuff like The Raven, or Pit and the Pendulum, because that's what people wanted to read so that's what people were buying.

 

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

11 hours ago, Rip Snorter said:

Did you ever write a poem?  I have, hundreds, Did you ever have a teacher who was a nationally known poet who gave you private tutoring?  Did you have the good fortune to have a coaching session with a guy like Steven Spender?  Or Lotte Lenya? Or Allen Ginsberg?  Different days, and more folks than I can recall.  BTW, I can shoot with either hand and chew gum at the same time.

 

 

Nope.  None of that, other than what was required in English classes.   Mostly because the teachers drove all the joy out of it.  I've always loved reading.  I don't know when I first started, but by the time I was 10 I was reading several science fiction books a week, throwing in some westerns, Hardy Boys, Power Boys, Mark Twain, Robin Hood, all the various colors of Fairy Books, and Max Schulman for variety.  

But my English teachers, as the textbook in that video clip, and in Alpo's post drove any desire to read "the classics" and most poetry from me.  That bit by Hemmingway in the OP I think sums up most literature, at least until recently - they write because they enjoy writing and there are no secret meanings that must be winkled out of how they phrased something.  "What did the author mean when the protagonist walked over and opened the window?"  "Teach....it means he walked across the danged room and opened the danged window!"

My wife had almost the opposite-her English teachers, or at least one of them, taught kids to enjoy the magic of our language without having to dissect every word and phrase, trying to discern "what the author really meant." And taught them that poetry isn't a slave to a forced meter, hammered out like a stamp mill.  It should flow, lilt, drift.

 

EDIT TO ADD:

 I think that is why a 50 page, or 150 page, court decision isn't daunting for me to read.  Sometimes tedious.  Sometimes infuriating.  But not usually difficult, other than having to go dig out referenced decisions.  

Edited June 17 by Subdeacon Joe

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

I graduated from high school in 1960 and went on to college where I had dual majors.  One was English literature the other was the most valuable because I became a school teacher.  I had some difficult English instructors in school but only two who hammered on the crap some of you experienced.  One lasted only one year and the other moved to another district and vanished.

[Pat Riot]

I had teachers that taught the subject of English. I had teachers that taught the subject of literature. 
I had a teacher and a student teacher at the same time my last 6 months of my Senior year in high school that taught English and Literature.

All others paled in comparison. 

[Eyesa Horg]

9 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

And sometimes a humidor is a humidor, just ask Bill Clinton

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I was taught:

 

"The dog stood on the burning deck,

a ring of fire was around his neck.....

Hot Dog".

 

I hated my English classes..... but I know the difference between There, They're, Their.

And I kinda know the difference between TO, TOO and TWO.

 

And I know a preposition is the worse word to end a sentence............ with.   (I had to do it).  

 

 

..........Widder

[Chantry]

I don't recall any English teacher motivating me to read anything more than the assigned class work.   My father certainly encouraged me to read and there were plenty of science fiction paperback books on a bookcase in the basement.

 

The earliest book I remember reading was Anthony Preston's 'Illustrated History of Navies in WWII' at 8 years old.  We were camping and stopped to get some food /supplies and I was encouraged to go get a book from one of those old wire spinning racks, that 'The Road Past Mandalay' by John Masters, I was 10 at the time.  I worked my way the Lord of the Rings by the time I was 12.

 

Due to space issues I bought a Kindle and use that as much as I can, but anything picture heavy or unavailable on Kindle, I'll by the actual book.

[J-BAR #18287]

I'm trying hard to think of any of the "great works of literature" that I was forced to read in class, that I would enjoy reading again.

 

 I got nothing.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Is the statement...... "I got nothing" a paradox or oxymoron?

 

Is the statement...... "I have nothing" a correct statement?

 

To imply you "got" or "have" indicates ownership or possession of 'something'.    If you 'got' nothing or if you 'have' nothing,

contradicts the usage of "nothing".

 

Our English language is strange...... yet fully understandable to those of us who speak it..... 

 

..........Widder

 

[Gracos Kid]

14 hours ago, Alpo said:

All the way through school, English teachers would harp on the literature.

 

WHY DID THE AUTHOR WRITE THIS POEM? WHY DID THE AUTHOR WRITE THIS SHORT STORY?

 

And I pretty much gave them the same answer every year and every year, and it pissed them off right and left.

 

He wrote that story because it was his job and he did it to make money.

 

Nobody liked that. That wasn't what they wanted to hear.

 

I read that Edgar Poe did not like scary stories. But that's what people were buying, so that's what he wrote. It was his profession. He wrote stuff like The Raven, or Pit and the Pendulum, because that's what people wanted to read so that's what people were buying.

 

 

In college I made a flat "F" on a book report on of all things Huckleberry Finn.  I read that story many times as a young boy, but the professor wanted it to be dissected from the viewpoint of the author.    Guess he didn't like my perception of Mark Twain's viewpoint.......

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

I hope I have not posted this before…. I still think he was a pedantic a-hole.

 

It was eighth grade and I had changed school systems. The subject was prepositions. He said learn these.  Well, BFD, I learned them last year, so what! Came in one day and there was a quiz, list the prepositions. OH, he meant by rote. So I failed but he offered a makeup since passing this was required for passing eighth grade. So I learned them, aboard, about, above across, …, all 67 words and phrases. I scored 100.  Looking back I believe he thought I cheated because he called on me in class to give him the list aloud. Which I again did flawlessly.

 

I wish I had the internet in those days because I would have added another 70 or so just to show him that his sacred list was incomplete.

[Dantankerous]

2 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

I'm trying hard to think of any of the "great works of literature" that I was forced to read in class, that I would enjoy reading again.

 

 I got nothing.

 

How about Owen Wister's The Virginian?

 

Yup, it IS a great work of literature,  by the way.

[Blackwater 53393]

1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Is the statement...... "I got nothing" a paradox or oxymoron?

 

Is the statement...... "I have nothing" a correct statement?

 

To imply you "got" or "have" indicates ownership or possession of 'something'.    If you 'got' nothing or if you 'have' nothing,

contradicts the usage of "nothing".

 

Our English language is strange...... yet fully understandable to those of us who speak it..... 

 

..........Widder

 

The correct statement would be, “I do not have anything.”  

You can reduce the “do not” to the contraction “don’t” and still convey the proper meaning.

 

If you’re talking to TW, then you should say, “I ain’t got nothin’!” He’ll understand!

 

 

Edited June 17 by Blackwater 53393

[Subdeacon Joe]

It isn't a huge sample, but judging from this thread a goodly number of people had the same unfortunate experience with English teachers that I had.  Teachers who seemed determined to drive any love of reading - much less Great Literature or Poetry - out of every student.  

Most did a reasonable job on parts of speech, grammar, and the mechanics of the English language, but, frankly, I learned more about English grammar in my Russian, Latin, and Spanish classes than I did in English classes.  

[Trailrider #896]

I went to a boarding prep school my Dad had attended. My junior year English teacher, Miss S..., was a lover of Shakespear.  She would attend the festivals in Stratford, Ontario, every year. For the final exam she asked why William S. had written MacBeth. My answer was that I thought he wrote it to entertain people (and make money), and if he knew we were analyzing his works three-hundred years hence, he wouldn't have written it! I got a 72 for the course. (70 was passing)! I still believe what I wrote! 

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

1968 Senior year of HS English Class.  The teacher announces that we will be reading Shakespeares Hamlet. An audible groan followed. But it ended up being the most remembered and enjoyed moment of "English" I ever experienced.

Our teach was a kind man who also taught drama so....

He started off by explaining the time, the language and the play.

He'd have us read a portion and then the magic.

He would read it out load in very loud voice with enthusiasm and animation. As an actor would. He would stop and explain what the reading and the words were, old English saying. He also explained the characters and what was happening.

I anticipated each day.

I still remember most of the 'too be or not too be', soliloquy.

[Chantry]

1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Teachers who seemed determined to drive any love of reading - much less Great Literature or Poetry - out of every student.  

 

If they had driven the love of reading out of me I would have saved a LOT of money!

[J-BAR #18287]

1 hour ago, Dantankerous said:

 

How about Owen Wister's The Virginian?

 

Yup, it IS a great work of literature,  by the way.

I agree, it is great literature.  I wish it had been assigned in school, but alas...

[J-BAR #18287]

2 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Is the statement...... "I got nothing" a paradox or oxymoron?

 

Is the statement...... "I have nothing" a correct statement?

 

To imply you "got" or "have" indicates ownership or possession of 'something'.    If you 'got' nothing or if you 'have' nothing,

contradicts the usage of "nothing".

 

Our English language is strange...... yet fully understandable to those of us who speak it..... 

 

..........Widder

 

 Merely a colloquialism.  I learned that in English.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 17 by J-BAR #18287

[Subdeacon Joe]

1 hour ago, Chantry said:

 

If they had driven the love of reading out of me I would have saved a LOT of money!

 

Note that I didn't say,  "love of reading,"  only "Great  literature, "  the is, the so-called classics.

[Raylan]

Most of my English literature teachers imbued a sense of learning if not always adventure into the works we read. My worst experience reading and learning any book was the bible as taught through a variety of preachers and Sunday school teachers. It wasn't until I was an adult and going through a rough patch that someone suggested reading John and then some of Paul's letters and just reading them and then writing done my thoughts about what I read. Really opened my eyes to what was written and said. I had once detested sermons taken from the letters of Paul because they all seemed focused at least from many preachers perspectives on a long line of legalisms. But when I read the letters for myself I found Paul was preaching against legalism, the exact opposite of what had been represented to me. I will always thank that person for encouraging me to do that and for opening up a spiritual treasure for me.

Edited June 18 by Raylan

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

Senior year, 80/81 we got this peach of a poem.  Really?  This for 18 year olds?  

 

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/44212/the-love-song-of-j-alfred-prufrock

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

I was unfortunate enough to be in High School in the '60s.  I NEVER had an English teacher who knew what they were talking about.  Absolutely NOTHING stuck.  I acquired a love of reading on my own.  After running out of shelf space, I found NOOK.  Shortly after that I found KINDLE.  I read for pleasure and to escape everyday humdrum.  Also learned to read to educate myself.  My school teachers killed any interest in poetry.  Like others, they also managed to kill great literature by truing to find the true meaning of life in every passage.  THAT endeavor does NOT make reading FUN at all.  To Quote "All that Krap I was forced to learn in High School." 

[Chantry]

None of the poetry forced upon me in school ever stuck and generally I'm not a fan of poetry.   Rudyard Kipling in the about the only poet I like.  Kipling is not only a very good poet, but he is also quite good at short stories and novels as well.

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

3 minutes ago, Chantry said:

None of the poetry forced upon me in school ever stuck

 

Not the ones we were assigned to read anyway. But this was in our book and we skipped over it

 

The Death of the Ball Turret Gunner

BY RANDALL JARRELL

From my mother’s sleep I fell into the State,

And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze.

Six miles from earth, loosed from its dream of life,

I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters.

When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose.

[bgavin]

Out of them all, I had only two outstanding and memorable teachers in my education:
8th grade science, and my E-unit instructor at IBM.

Both were epiphany moments for me.
Neither were English teachers.

 

The science teacher would be considered a "failure" today, because he taught to we three who were truly interested.
And he taught with a passion I've never seen since in a teacher.
Same for my mainframe teacher so long ago.

The curtains parted, the lights went on, the fog lifted and a learning epiphany took place.
 

[Subdeacon Joe]

14 hours ago, Raylan said:

It wasn't until I was an adult and going through a rough patch that someone suggested reading John and then some of Paul's letters and just reading them

 

Ditto.   What really hit me upside the head is from the 4th chapter of St. Paul's letter to St. Timothy,  "Do thy diligence to come shortly unto me:  for Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.  Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with thee: for he is profitable to me for the ministry.  And Tychicus have I sent to Ephesus.  The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments.

 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:  of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words. "

 

Suddenly it wasn't ST. PAUL!!! proclaiming from atop a pedestal,  but  just Paul,  an ordinary person, granted with an extraordinary calling, with common, everyday problems,  talking to ordinary people,  asking his friends to bring him stuff that he had to leave behind for whatever reason.  Oh, and watch out for Alex....God'll get him for what he's done. 

[Subdeacon Joe]

14 hours ago, Dilli GaHoot Galoot said:

Senior year, 80/81 we got this peach of a poem.  Really?  This for 18 year olds?  

 

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/44212/the-love-song-of-j-alfred-prufrock

 

Still better than e.e.cummings and his avoidance of capitalization.   

 

Or the "great and influential" poets who

 

                              tRieD

m

AAA    kin   g

        POETRY       with 

 

sdrow   strown 

 

 

 

at                     random.