Philosopher Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 I’ve got a Remington SPR 210 shotgun that is giving me problems. This is the Russian-made double-barreled shotgun that Remington imported from Baikal for a period of years. My gun has a single trigger and extractors. In this post I shall henceforth refer to my Remington as “the Baikal”. I apologize in advance for the length of this post but I figured it’s better to explain everything I’ve done and know at this point than to try and answer any questions piecemeal. Shortly after acquiring the gun in mint-in-the-box condition in 2019 I had Ahlman’s in Morristown, Minnesota do a quick “cowboy action job” on the gun. After getting the gun back in early 2020 it was used relatively few times as we had the COVID going on, and here up North we have a pretty short shooting season. So between 2020 and 2024 the total rounds through the gun was probably 10 boxes; these were fired without any difficulty. Everything was peachy until I was using the gun at the Idaho State shoot outside of Boise the first weekend in June, 2024 (shout-out to the great folks at the Oregon Trail Rough Riders!). I had successfully used the gun in side matches and the 4 warm-up stages. The problem surfaced on Friday, the first day of the match (of course). The gun ran perfectly until the 3rd stage where I engaged 6 knock-down targets. The first two rounds fired perfectly, as did the 1st round out of the right barrel, BUT the trigger would not fire the left barrel. The trigger had light tension on it but there was no resistance that indicated that the sear had engaged the hammer. I finished the stage by knocking down the last 4 targets using only the right barrel. Other posse members suggested that maybe the barrel selector might not be pushed fully to one side, so I moved it to fire the left barrel first. On the next stage the left barrel would refuse to fire on first pulling the trigger, and then the right barrel WOULD fire when the trigger was released and pulled a second time. My brother, aka Nels Gandy, shared his Charles Daly double gun with me so I could finish out the day. At the end of the match one of the members of the club and match participant, Miner 49er Todd, offered to help me troubleshoot my shotgun. We removed the buttplate and stock so we could inspect the action. The trigger seemed to work correctly, shifting between barrels. We noticed, however, that as the action was opened the left hammer would move back, but not all the way to the full-cock position. The right hammer WOULD come back a bit further, the right sear would engage it and the right hammer would be cocked. As you closed the gun you could see the right hammer stay cocked, while the left hammer would slowly return to the fired position. Peering into the action it looked like the coil spring that lifts the left sear was missing. This is the spring that sits in a recess on the underside of the sear, and is compressed by the trigger plate that closes the bottom of the action. THIS, I thought, was the cause of the failure. Huzzah! I searched the Wire and saw some archived posts about problems other people had had with their Baikals. There were posts indicating that failing to hold the opening lever to the right while opening a Baikal could cause trigger reset issues, so I verified that holding the opening lever all the way to the right and opening the gun fully had no positive effect. I also saw references to a website authored by a gentleman by the name of Marauder that described how to disassemble my Baikal. Found the website and read Marauder’s article on Baikals. Removed the forearm, barrels, buttstock, and trigger guard. Removed the screw that retains the trigger plate on the bottom of the action and tapped the trigger plate free. Lo and behold not one, but TWO sear springs fall out onto the floor. The spring for the left sear was probably trapped in the works somewhere and came free when the trigger plate was removed. As further evidence that miracles occur I actually locate them on the floor of my work room. CONVINCED that I am about to correct the Baikal’s problem, I put both the sear springs back into their recesses under their respective sears (springs held in place by a dab of Mobil 1 grease); I carefully position the trigger plate on the bottom of the receiver, tap it into place, and screw down the trigger plate retaining screw. I mount the barrels and forearm, break the action, and ZERO change! The right hammer cocks, the left hammer moves backward but not far enough to catch the left sear. The trigger “fires” the right barrel, but not the right. Replacing the spring under the left sear has fixed NOTHING. I again remove the trigger plate and the sear springs. I decide to see if something is interfering with the travel of the left hammer. So with the gun turned bottom side up I again open the gun fully and BOTH hammers move the same distance, and BOTH sears engage and hold the hammers stay cocked when I reclose the gun. Please note that the trigger plate is off so there is no spring pressure to push the sears up into engagement with the notches on the hammers. This seems to be a BIG clue that I’m unable to grasp the meaning of. Thinking there might be some dirt/debris in the Baikal’s action I drive out the pin that holds the sears - but just far enough to remove the left sear. I drive out the pin that the hammers rotate on, again just enough to remove the left hammer. I drive out the pin that retains cocking rod assemblies, again just far enough to remove the left cocking cam and the cocking rod assembly behind it. Everything passes inspection. The machining inside the Baikal’s receiver is a bit rough, but there appears to be no obstructions that would impact function. I completely reassembled the gun. The left hammer still refuses to cock and fire. I’m at a loss as to what to try next. and I feel I'm missing something obvious. So if you’re familiar with Baikals I would LOVE to hear your ideas. Thanks in advance. Philosopher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 Cocking cam is worn. Ck the back of the forearm for wear too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted June 14 Author Share Posted June 14 Will check as suggested. The left and right cams look interchangeable. If so, I'll switch them around and see if that changes anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 10 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Cocking cam is worn. Ck the back of the forearm for wear too. The cocking cam would also be my idea of what is causing the problem. Very common in Baikals. \ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted June 14 Author Share Posted June 14 Johnny, thanks for the response. Is my idea of swapping the left for the right cocking cam a valid test? BTW, if I can't figure this out (with the Wire's help that is!) are you still working on Baikals? Thanks again everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 (edited) Not Johnny or have his expertise, but the Russia guns are generally hand fit. So switching the cocking arm MAY be valid or may not, depending on if they are similar sized. I would compare the two and see if there is more wear on the left one. If the left cocks with the "right' arm, you likely validated the issue. but then see how the "left" one does on the right side to see if the problem moved over. I'm not sure of the availability of parts for these. Start with Remington and go to https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/baikal/shotguns-baikal/side-by-sides/izh43-2 They have some parts but all in stock. Edited June 14 by Marauder SASS #13056 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted June 14 Author Share Posted June 14 (edited) Marauder! Thank you for joining in! To bring everyone up to date, I just swapped the left cocking cam for the right and reinstalled. The malfunction remains the same: Right barrel "fires', left barrel does not. I'm thinking about removing the left cocking cam and then pressing the now-exposed end of the left cocking rod against a punch. That way I can push the cocking rod deeper into the receiver. IF the sear then catches the hammer then I'll know if I have a problem with the cocking cam and cocking rod, or if I have a problem with the sear and hammer interface. As for swapping the left and right cocking rods I don't believe they're interchangeable(?). At least they have different part numbers on the parts diagram. Edited June 14 by Philosopher Corrected typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 16 hours ago, Philosopher said: I again remove the trigger plate and the sear springs. I decide to see if something is interfering with the travel of the left hammer. So with the gun turned bottom side up I again open the gun fully and BOTH hammers move the same distance, and BOTH sears engage and hold the hammers stay cocked when I reclose the gun. Please note that the trigger plate is off so there is no spring pressure to push the sears up into engagement with the notches on the hammers. This seems to be a BIG clue that I’m unable to grasp the meaning of. Right here is the answer. If the sear will fall into place when assisted by gravity but it fails to engage when it needs spring assist, this is where I would look. With the gun assembled see if it will cock the left barrel when held correctly. Then try again holding the gun upside down. Something is preventing the sear from engaging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted June 15 Author Share Posted June 15 (edited) I've got the Baikal apart again. I retested the following condition but I CANNOT get it to cock both hammers after repeated attempts: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I again remove the trigger plate and the sear springs. I decide to see if something is interfering with the travel of the left hammer. So with the gun turned bottom side up I again open the gun fully and BOTH hammers move the same distance, and BOTH sears engage and hold the hammers stay cocked when I reclose the gun. Please note that the trigger plate is off so there is no spring pressure to push the sears up into engagement with the notches on the hammers. This seems to be a BIG clue that I’m unable to grasp the meaning of. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What I CAN see is that the left hammer does not travel back enough for the left sear to drop into place. Again, I can't get both hammers to cock with the trigger plate removed and the Baikal turned upside down. It was either a fluke or I made a mistake in what I was seeing. Sorry for the false lead. So the left hammer is not moving back enough for the left sear to capture it. This is shown in the following picture where I'm applying pressure so the Baikal is fully open. The right hammer has the sear engaged and the left sear is just shy of the clearance it needs to drop into the left hammer notch. So we're back to the idea that either the cocking cam or the left cocking rod has a problem. I will now try to perform a test of whether I can cock the left hammer by forcing the left cocking cam against my wooden workbench. If that fails I'll remove the left cocking cam, and use a brass rod to press directly against the exposed end of the left cocking rod to try and cock the left hammer that way. Edited June 15 by Philosopher clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted June 15 Author Share Posted June 15 (edited) UPDATE: I was SUCCESSFUL in cocking the left hammer by pressing the left cocking cam against my workbench and leaning into it. Should have tried this sooner...... So at this point it looks like the first thing to try is to get a new cocking cam. Any suggestions where this part can be acquired? Numrich is out of stock. Edited June 15 by Philosopher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted June 15 Author Share Posted June 15 And a big thanks to those who helped me finally recognize the problem. OLG and Johnny Meadows knew immediately what the problem was, as I suspect everyone else would have, had I not laid down a false trail! If you have a lead on Remington SPR 210 parts please shoot me a message. Numrich is out of stock, and I'll try EAA, but if you know any way I can get a new cocking cam quickly I'd appreciate it. This is my only cowboy double so I can't shoot until this is repaired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Mulo Vaquero, SASS #55942 Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 Check for wear here, inside forearm where the cocking cam makes contact too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted June 15 Author Share Posted June 15 El Mulo Vaquero, Thanks for the suggestion. I checked my forearm, and there is a bit of wear to the bluing on the pins where the cocking cams bear, but it's really slight. How recently were you able to get that treasure trove of cocking cams from EAA? Here is a picture of the cocking cams I took out of my Baikal. You can see how much they've been reprofiled, I'm certain in the pursuit to get the gun to open and stay open more easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Mulo Vaquero, SASS #55942 Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 36 minutes ago, Philosopher said: El Mulo Vaquero, Thanks for the suggestion. I checked my forearm, and there is a bit of wear to the bluing on the pins where the cocking cams bear, but it's really slight. How recently were you able to get that treasure trove of cocking cams from EAA? Here is a picture of the cocking cams I took out of my Baikal. You can see how much they've been reprofiled, I'm certain in the pursuit to get the gun to open and stay open more easily. Yes, reprofiling was the common method to get them to stay open. I have had these and other parts for many years...when Baikals were readily available. EAA no longer stocks the parts, obviously. Papa Dave used to sell cockers, which were profiled differently then yours. I used to reprofile them different as well. I still occasionally get Baikals in for action work. You could weld them in and reprofile them? Or.....you can pm me your address and ill send you a couple. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted June 16 Author Share Posted June 16 (edited) I actually sent an email to Papa Dave using the address in Marauder's document that described tuning Baikal doubles, but the message came back as undeliverable. And I'm afraid I don't have the skill of equipment for welding. I sent you a message with my mailing address. Thank you! Edited June 16 by Philosopher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 I believe Papa Dave is no longer with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted June 16 Author Share Posted June 16 I feared that might be the case, but hoped otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dacotua Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 You can always weld to the cam and then re-profile it with a file. Once you get it to work, you need to take it all apart again, heat the cam red hot and quench it in oil (To make it hard) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 Am I the only one on here who doesn't own a welder? I need to step up my game. Imagine the havoc I can inflict on my firearms with a welder instead of just slowly grinding away at them with a dremel! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 The two go together. If you dremel away too much, just weld it back up. If you weld up too much, just dremel it away. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Creek,5759 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Drill a couple of small holes in it. Build it up with J B Weld. Then a Dremel tool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted July 12 Author Share Posted July 12 (edited) Final report. El Mulo Vaquero sent me a pair of new cocking cams which I CAREFULLY reprofiled to match the good, fully functioning cocking cam from the right barrel of the Baikal. To mark the profile of the good, original cam to the new cams I placed the original over the new cam, held them together with a magnet, and then sprayed the assemblage with white paint. Let the paint dry and pulled them apart. Did the initial grinding with a cylindrical stone in my dremel. When I got close I switched to fine needle files and progressively finer grits of sandpaper, testing for function several times along the way. Did a final polish and cleanup of residual paint, and reinstalled. Success! My Baikal is working correctly and my shooting season is saved. Thank you again to El Mulo Vaquero for generously providing the new cams - he refused all offers of payment or reimbursement! And a special thanks to Johnny Meadows for his detailed advice. This is a fantastic community. Thank you all! Edited July 15 by Philosopher Corrected autospell typo 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.