Is this Leading? H110 under 158 gn Hornady LSWCHP

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Many casters including Badman sell coated bullets.  Some sell nothing else.

Edited June 13 by Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971
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[Sedalia Dave]

1 hour ago, Mad Major said:

Black powder sounds better all the time...

 

I think i have most all the lead out now.  How does this look?  I know the pictures are not very helpful, but i can distinctly see the rifling grooves again and the bore is shiny again:

 

Wait a few days and see if it is still shiny. If you see dull areas that were previously shiny you still have lead in the bore.

[Mad Major]

3 hours ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

Many casters including Batman sell coated bullets.  Some sell nothing else.

 

Thanks!  I looked at Badman's website again today, all he had was sample packs in .38/.357, but not in 158 grain.  I bought a sample pack of 100 from Acme Bullet Company instead cause he had the 158 gn.  I will give them a try.  I have heard 158 grain is supposed to be most accurate.  Is that what most everybody uses for CAS?  Or is there a different weight bullet that is better that y'all know of?

 

2 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Wait a few days and see if it is still shiny. If you see dull areas that were previously shiny you still have lead in the bore.

 

Will do Dave.  Thanks again for the advice.

Edited June 13 by Mad Major

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

5 hours ago, Mad Major said:

Black powder sounds better all the time...

 

I think i have most all the lead out now.  How does this look?  I know the pictures are not very helpful, but i can distinctly see the rifling grooves again and the bore is shiny again:

Go with jacketed and all will be good 

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

1 hour ago, Mad Major said:

 

Thanks!  I looked at Badman's website again today, all he had was sample packs in .38/.357, but not in 158 grain.  I bought a sample pack of 100 from Acme Bullet Company instead cause he had the 158 gn.  I will give them a try.  I have heard 158 grain is supposed to be most accurate.  Is that what most everybody uses for CAS?  Or is there a different weight bullet that is better that y'all know of?

 

 

Will do Dave.  Thanks again for the advice.

For main match CAS 125-grain bullets are popular with 105-grain bullets often loaded for revolvers.  I load 158-grain bullets in 357 mag for long range pistol caliber, lever action rifle side matches.  They would work for main match ammo but you would have more recoil in your handguns.

[Mad Major]

8 minutes ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

For main match CAS 125-grain bullets are popular with 105-grain bullets often loaded for revolvers.  I load 158-grain bullets in 357 mag for long range pistol caliber, lever action rifle side matches.  They would work for main match ammo but you would have more recoil in your handguns.

 

So that sound opposite to what my Lee book and Hodgdon's website says.  For the lighter bullets, the book and the website say it needs more powder.  On some of them its a whole grain more.  Am I missing something?  Do lighter bullets give less recoil, even though the charge has more powder?

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

10 minutes ago, Mad Major said:

 

... Am I missing something?  Do lighter bullets give less recoil, even though the charge has more powder?

Yes!  Bullet weight affects recoil more than powder charge.  And the reason lighter bullets tend to need more powder is to build up the needed pressure to get a good burn.  Heavier bullets will be higher pressure loads to start due to the extra effort needed to push them out of the case and then down the bore compared to lighter bullets.

 

That is a generalization.  Some people will use the same powder charge for different weight bullets, but it needs to be within the proper loading range for each.

 

The lighter bullets will give all the accuracy you need for CAS.  If a 158gr load is more accurate, it won't matter.

[Mad Major]

That just seems counter to my thinking.  Makes my head hurt.... more powder = less recoil.  but I will take your word for it.  Now I need to do some test loads with 105grain bullets.  I have some 125's that I loaded, but have not shot yet.  I think that will be my primary objective on my trip to the range in the morning.

[Mad Major]

Hey, on a different note, I just signed up on the SASS website and joined SASS.  How long does it take to get your SASS number and badge in the mail?

[Bull Skinner]

You’re way too worried about accuracy for SASS competition, minute of stage coach is accurate enough. You’re shooting targets the size of a tv screen at 5 to 7 yds with pistol and usually a 16” circle of steel at 12 to 15 yds with a rifle. You could hit ‘em throwing rocks. We shoot fast and furious with minimal accuracy involved. If you can keep ‘em on a sheet of paper at 7 yds  you got all the accuracy you need. Go to a match you’ll learn and get better advice than you will posting here.

[Cholla]

3 hours ago, Mad Major said:

That just seems counter to my thinking.  Makes my head hurt.... more powder = less recoil.  but I will take your word for it.  Now I need to do some test loads with 105grain bullets.  I have some 125's that I loaded, but have not shot yet.  I think that will be my primary objective on my trip to the range in the morning.

Most of us go to the bottom of the published powder weight for any given weight of bullet. In CAS, all you have to do is make the steel target ring, not knock it over. Less powder and lead means less cost and longer case and target life.

[Rip Snorter]

All the years, in all the different games, the least I ever loaded was something I would use in a real situation.  Bullseye was the only exception.  Guns I would never carry and no reasonable expectation of being attacked in a range full of high end shooters.

[Cholla]

I recommend reading through this. The negative is they do not list minimum powder weights.

https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/cowboy-action1-1.pdf

 

Speer reloading manuals #13 and #14 have dedicated cowboy load pages, which appear to have been dropped in the #15 manual.

 

[Mad Major]

Yes I know its 1am EST.  I have the evening battle captain shift at work.  Anyway, I got my rifle cleaned up too.  I only shot a few of those Hornady's through it.  Didn't have hardly any leading at all.  

 

Thank you guys so much for all the advice.  And yeah, I need to go to a match.  I am going to try to go to one on 29 June.  I am close(1 hour drive) to the club where Palmetto Posse shoots, so I figured I would swing by and say howdy.  Maybe even shoot, but I only have one pistol and a rifle, both 38/357.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

6 hours ago, Mad Major said:

Yes I know its 1am EST.  I have the evening battle captain shift at work.  Anyway, I got my rifle cleaned up too.  I only shot a few of those Hornady's through it.  Didn't have hardly any leading at all.  

 

Thank you guys so much for all the advice.  And yeah, I need to go to a match.  I am going to try to go to one on 29 June.  I am close(1 hour drive) to the club where Palmetto Posse shoots, so I figured I would swing by and say howdy.  Maybe even shoot, but I only have one pistol and a rifle, both 38/357.

Yes, GO! 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Mad Major,

In my 20+ years as a SASS member and Cowboy shooter, the 158 grain bullets are probably the least favorites for our 

normal match setups.

As mentioned in a previous post, the 105 and 125 grainers are the most popular in the .38/.357 caliber.

 

Your loads don't have to kill the steel....... just 'ring' it.

 

Go to the match.  Ask questions.   And be prepared to shoot a little because you may be invited to shoot a stage

or two.   And if someone loans you their guns, feel free to use them....along with THEIR ammo.

Most of us don't like 'unknown' ammo to be used in our firearms.

 

..........Widder

 

[Marauder SASS #13056]

The recoil is related to momentum so Momentum = mass X velocity. 

 

So a heavy bullet will definitely recoil more than a lighter bullet at the same velocity.

For cowboy, the velocities are generally around 600 - 700 f/s.  And limited in pistols to less than 1000 f/s but we generally only keep a few loads in case we have to shoot heavier knockdown targets.  (And most clubs make sure a 22 round will drop them, but just in case.)

 

So a 105 bullet at 650 f/s will have significantly less felt recoil (30%).  And 125 will also feel a lot less.  But felt recoil is somewhat is not easily measured (without a lot of work & some equipment.) 

(Remember that the recoil is normally more rotation for us than push back.  More rotation = more time to return to target).

Best is what feels best for you.

 

Side note: Many years ago at a State match they didn't have as good of targets as they do now.  I was in a shoot off so I had some 160 grain bullets loaded at about 950 f/s.  Several were hard to knock down, but one target hardly moved as I hit it.  I know I was in trouble.  Only heavier 44 and 45 caliber pistols could knock it down - and not always.  Shooters saw that and quickly forced their competition to shoot on that side of the set up.

[Mad Major]

Well, i got out to the range early this morning and fired my pistol for the first time since cleaning the lead out.  At first, i made a classic mistake and tried to hold a steady aim.  Once I stopped trying to aim and started shooting instinctively with both eyes open and focusing more on the front sight (like my papaw taught me), I started drilling the targets.  In the Army we call this reflexive shooting.  This was at 20yds.  I am glad my pistol's accuracy is back!:

 

Edited June 14 by Mad Major

[Mad Major]

Hey Look! I am official now:

 

"Howdy Mad Major,

 

Welcome to the SASS family! We are confident you will enjoy your membership in the friendliest and most enjoyable shooting organization in the world. All we ask is that you play and have fun with a zest for “The Spirit of the Game.” 

 

Your assigned SASS number, which will also be your badge number, is 114589."

[DeaconKC]

17 hours ago, Mad Major said:

Hey, on a different note, I just signed up on the SASS website and joined SASS.  How long does it take to get your SASS number and badge in the mail?

They're pretty quick, usually for most within a couple weeks. And welcome to the joint!

Edited June 14 by DeaconKC

[Mad Major]

Hey all, over the weekend I recieved a shipment of Acme bullets' hi-tek "coated" bullets.  Is this what they are supposd to look like?  Seems to me if the coating wears off this easy in the box during shipment, it would probably burn off pretty easy and stick to my barrel too.  Most all of them have the coating worn off of the edges of the drive bands, where I think you would want the coating most of all, right?  Should I be shooting these?

 

Edit: by the way, the picture doesn't look as bad as they are in person.  lots of the coating has come off.

 

Edited June 24 by Mad Major

[Eyesa Horg]

Don't know if they are an issue, but have never bought any that looked worn as a those do. Even where they aren't worn, the coating looks pretty lame.

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

On 6/11/2024 at 6:19 PM, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

The Lewis Lead Remover is a kit that uses brass screens to remove the lead.

 

https://gunsmagazine.com/gear/lewis-lead-remover/

 

a poor man's version of this

ordered brass 1" pipe filters (Amazon, where else?)  see below for one link

run a very wet patch through the bore and let it sit for 20 minutes

then put it on a metal jag that has a point on it.  

have to bang the end of the cleaning rod with my hand a couple of times to get it started.  the filter will form fit around the jag. 

▲ a bore guide on your rod is a great idea here

Being brass it's softer than the steel barrel

then scrub back and forth in the barrel

you can put pressure on the cleaning rod to do one side or another to get any remaining lead out

couple of clean patches and Bob's your uncle

 

https://www.amazon.com/Brass-Pipe-Screens-Screen-Filters/dp/B073PC2WL4/ref=sr_1_3?crid=UDE8IBRL0RB4&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.1doO6gN7jL5xVgetIrlOr_AkW6M0jLj4Kb6H8orQ6hakqOS6Jv22xGomQgHVQjR7QDlrQ1jiKZ97TrfGuOBBQPbrk1EjFH63051wC4Zhv3FrfBKXftbg39b5s1L33aOqabHzk64CPgSKOzt9QyAohw5rEIRxxJ9aZcqWW-ikiDEGQre0DcKT8EE27fwwA1sbIubHUxGB81vC0n5ON5gs0c9z6vrTL71TmbGXG5rkSkOEdp1mTPH57z7iAIPDk5tth2-YcVxNuo2qh8TspsXwwbmnWu487YL1zDlcWOyGT6E.LwjGARntnqtYMe9PQLG7hVa3giMlNKHiArippjsUANs&dib_tag=se&keywords=brass+1"+pipe+filters&qid=1719267464&sprefix=brass+1+pipe+filters%2Caps%2C137&sr=8-3

[Eyesa Horg]

8 minutes ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

 

a poor man's version of this

ordered brass 1" pipe filters (Amazon, where else?)  see below for one link

run a very wet patch through the bore and let it sit for 20 minutes

then put it on a metal jag that has a point on it.  

have to bang the end of the cleaning rod with my hand a couple of times to get it started.  the filter will form fit around the jag. 

▲ a bore guide on your rod is a great idea here

Being brass it's softer than the steel barrel

then scrub back and forth in the barrel

you can put pressure on the cleaning rod to do one side or another to get any remaining lead out

couple of clean patches and Bob's your uncle

 

https://www.amazon.com/Brass-Pipe-Screens-Screen-Filters/dp/B073PC2WL4/ref=sr_1_3?crid=UDE8IBRL0RB4&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.1doO6gN7jL5xVgetIrlOr_AkW6M0jLj4Kb6H8orQ6hakqOS6Jv22xGomQgHVQjR7QDlrQ1jiKZ97TrfGuOBBQPbrk1EjFH63051wC4Zhv3FrfBKXftbg39b5s1L33aOqabHzk64CPgSKOzt9QyAohw5rEIRxxJ9aZcqWW-ikiDEGQre0DcKT8EE27fwwA1sbIubHUxGB81vC0n5ON5gs0c9z6vrTL71TmbGXG5rkSkOEdp1mTPH57z7iAIPDk5tth2-YcVxNuo2qh8TspsXwwbmnWu487YL1zDlcWOyGT6E.LwjGARntnqtYMe9PQLG7hVa3giMlNKHiArippjsUANs&dib_tag=se&keywords=brass+1"+pipe+filters&qid=1719267464&sprefix=brass+1+pipe+filters%2Caps%2C137&sr=8-3

Oddly, I took a look at these and in big red letters, it say they can't be shipped to my location!

[Cholla]

1 hour ago, Mad Major said:

Hey all, over the weekend I recieved a shipment of Acme bullets' hi-tek "coated" bullets.  Is this what they are supposd to look like?  Seems to me if the coating wears off this easy in the box during shipment, it would probably burn off pretty easy and stick to my barrel too.  Most all of them have the coating worn off of the edges of the drive bands, where I think you would want the coating most of all, right?  Should I be shooting these?

 

Edit: by the way, the picture doesn't look as bad as they are in person.  lots of the coating has come off.

 

I bet they work just fine at CAS velocities. 

[Mad Major]

5 minutes ago, Cholla said:

I bet they work just fine at CAS velocities. 

Probably true, but so will hard cast lead bullets and I feel like I paid for something that I did not get.  I emailed Acme about it and sent them the picture.  If they don't refund or send me some new ones, I'll buy coated bullets elsewhere in the future.

[Sedalia Dave]

2 hours ago, Mad Major said:

Hey all, over the weekend I recieved a shipment of Acme bullets' hi-tek "coated" bullets.  Is this what they are supposd to look like?  Seems to me if the coating wears off this easy in the box during shipment, it would probably burn off pretty easy and stick to my barrel too.  Most all of them have the coating worn off of the edges of the drive bands, where I think you would want the coating most of all, right?  Should I be shooting these?

 

Edit: by the way, the picture doesn't look as bad as they are in person.  lots of the coating has come off.

 

 

Those are not shootable.

 

Call them and give them a chance to make it right.  If they won't find a new supplier.

 

For conventionally lubed bullets, Outlaw Bullets has an excellent reputation. It is under new ownership but I have met the new owners and have seen their product first hand and it is excellent.

 

For powder coated bullets, Bullet Boss produces excellent Hi-Tek coated bullets. 

[Mad Major]

50 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Those are not shootable.

 

Call them and give them a chance to make it right.  If they won't find a new supplier.

 

For conventionally lubed bullets, Outlaw Bullets has an excellent reputation. It is under new ownership but I have met the new owners and have seen their product first hand and it is excellent.

 

For powder coated bullets, Bullet Boss produces excellent Hi-Tek coated bullets. 

 

Thanks Dave,  I emailed  them, I will see what they say.  Thanks for the links to the other suppliers, they didn't come up when I did my original search for coated bullets.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

H110/296 is a great powder for heavy hunting type loads. I’m not sure it has much use in this game. That lead bullet is very nearly pure lead. Much past  .38 Spl target velocities and you’re going to get leading. Load those bullets to a much slower velocity and save that powder for jacketed or hard cast, gas checked bullets. 

[Eyesa Horg]

10 hours ago, Mad Major said:

 

Thanks Dave,  I emailed  them, I will see what they say.  Thanks for the links to the other suppliers, they didn't come up when I did my original search for coated bullets.

Also, "Slippery Bullets" in NH. The whole family are great CAS supporters.

[Griff]

I shoot a lot of cast bullets,  as do most CAS shooters.  My rule of thumb for soft lead (<12 Bhn) is to keep velocity below 1400fps.  Any faster and additional tin & antimony needs to be added to the alloy.  If you want a faster load for hunting, use a gas checked bullet above 15 hn.  Best source will be to cast your own.  They get expensive to buy:  https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/g-ch-38-357-158-gr-swc-per-100-in-a-plastic-ammo-box-clone-.html

[Vail Vigilante]

Switch to a coated bullet for CAS if you are using smokeless powder.

There are many companies out there that make something suitable.

Missouri Bullet Company, Blue, Brass Monkey, Acme, just to name a few.

Use Titegroup or something similar. Choose something that gives about 900-1000fps for 4-5 grains.

 

 

 

[Vail Vigilante]

Oh, and about the ACME, those do not look like the Acme stuff I have seen. I would let them know.

 

[Vail Vigilante]

Oh, and one last thing to the OP, I feel your pain.

After the first or second match I had some guns that were so sludged up I thought they would never come clean.

 

[Mad Major]

Update on the Acme bullets, they called today and said the pic I sent looks nothing like what they have from the same batch back at the factory.  They asked me if I had tried to re-size them.  I said no, all I did was open the box.  They are sending me a new box of bullets to try.