Propellant and sourcing recommendations - Trail Boss, Tin Star, RS14

[Shagnasty Pete]

Howdy all, another noobie question here. Apparently Trail Boss and Tin Star have gone the way of the dodo bird and we’ll never see their return. I’m finding some interesting information about Reload Swiss RS14 as an alternative.

 

Are Trail Boss and Tin Star truly obsolete, and if not, does anyone have info on a reliable source? Anyone using RS14 and have a source in the USA? 
 

thanks!

[Sarge]

31 minutes ago, Shagnasty Pete said:

Howdy all, another noobie question here. Apparently Trail Boss and Tin Star have gone the way of the dodo bird and we’ll never see their return. I’m finding some interesting information about Reload Swiss RS14 as an alternative.

 

Are Trail Boss and Tin Star truly obsolete, and if not, does anyone have info on a reliable source? Anyone using RS14 and have a source in the USA? 
 

thanks!

I've been using N320.  Just as dirty as TB, but fills the case pretty well and is available.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

I've been using N320.  Just as dirty as TB, but fills the case pretty well and is available.

Fills the case pretty well?? How much are you using?  I use 3.2 gr of N320 in .38's on my 550 and can barely see it in the bottom of the case.

[Tyrel Cody]

Black powder(or a sub if you must) fills cases very well…

 

[Sarge]

15 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Fills the case pretty well?? How much are you using?  I use 3.2 gr of N320 in .38's on my 550 and can barely see it in the bottom of the case.

I'm using 3.5 gr of N320 behind 160 gr. in C.45 Spl.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

OP, if you are willing to load with higher density powders than Trail Boss, let us know.  There are suitable powders like HP-38, TightGroup and Bullseye available in 8-lb jugs.  A powder check die can effectively prevent double charges.  BTW, I find N320 very clean burning in higher charge weights.

Edited June 7 by Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971
another powder sold out

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Trail Boss may or may not be made in the future.  It was made by ADI (or whatever that company is now) in Australia.  Rather a difficult powder to make, and expensive, and other than Cowboy and 300 Blackout shooters, there is not a lot of demand to restart production after both manufacturing and environmental law problems came up.

 

V V could not sell enough Tin Star to make it worthwhile.  Another Cowboy niche powder.   Forget it.

 

Trying to find an elusive Swiss made smokeless right now?   Fugget-about-it.

 

If you want a European made powder, contact Scarlet and ask about her line of imported powders,

 

There are 20 or so powders made that make a nice Cowboy load.   Some (as explained above) can still be bought.   With possible supply shortages continuing into the future, I'd advise picking one of the common "fast pistol" or even a "12 gauge shotgun" powder and buying to build a stockpile to carry you forward for a while.  This is not the time to "try to be different."

 

good luck, GJ

Edited June 7 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

[Silver Creek Jack]

8 hours ago, Sarge said:

I'm using 3.5 gr of N320 behind 160 gr. in C.45 Spl.

I use the same load and powder in my 44 and 45 caliber, love it! Super accurate and almost recoil free. I also use tite- group with a 3.5 grain behind a 160 grain bullet in 44 and 45 and the same gr.with 38 sp and a 105 gr. Bullet. Great powders, easy to find.

 

Edited June 7 by Silver Creek Jack
Done

[Dantankerous]

9 hours ago, Silver Creek Jack said:

I use the same load and powder in my 44 and 45 caliber, love it! Super accurate and almost recoil free. I also use tite- group with a 3.5 grain behind a 160 grain bullet in 44 and 45 and the same gr.with 38 sp and a 105 gr. Bullet. Great powders, easy to find.

 

Recoil free? What fun is that?

[Jack Spade]

Right now with the lack of availability of components you are better off to buy what you can get.  Mid south has red dot which will load both your center fire rifle and pistol cartridges and your shotgun shells and they are running free shipping.  Natchez also has several powders available that will load both and are running free hazmat if you order today.  Buy as much as you can because it has already been announced that there is going to be another shortage. 

[Wild Eagle]

6 hours ago, Jack Spade said:

Right now with the lack of availability of components you are better off to buy what you can get.  Mid south has red dot which will load both your center fire rifle and pistol cartridges and your shotgun shells and they are running free shipping.  Natchez also has several powders available that will load both and are running free hazmat if you order today.  Buy as much as you can because it has already been announced that there is going to be another shortage. 

+1 to this.  Look around and see what you can buy.  Most of us can't buy what we actually would like to use, but we have all found something to keep us shooting.  There are many powders that will load everything for cowboy.  I was using Red Dot, but it became hard to find.  I found a large quantity of Clean Shot and am now using it for 38 special and 12 gage.  Scarlett Darling here on the wire is a Shooters World distributer and usually has Clean Shot.  If you find something that will work, buy as much of it as you can or can afford.  It probably won't get cheaper for a long while, and may not be available at all for periods of time.  I can probably load Clean Shot for about 5 years.  I really like it for metallic cartridges, but would be a happy camper if I could find a couple of 8# jugs of Nitro 100 or Promo for the shotgun.  Clean Shot works for 12 gage, but is dirty at the low pressures we shoot at.  Good luck.

[Cypress Sun]

 

Tin Star hasn't been available for years. Trail Boss can still be found on Gun Broker, and a few other places, if you have the money to spend and enough Vaseline to ease the pain As I understand it, you might as well forget TB coming back anytime soon, if at all.

 

At this point, you hopped on the bus way too late to get a good seat or to be choosy with powders and your choices are becoming more and more limited as the days go on.

 

You have some good suggestions on the various posts above. My recommendation is that you follow the advice above and not dally too long in doing it.

[watab kid]

find an available shotgun powder and work up ;loads for both the shotgun and the rifle/pistol with the same powder , buy a quantity that will keep you going without having to restart the entire process , 

 

ive used red dot and clays mostly but can adapt to 700x and a lot of others very quickly , at cowboy loading you have options but you need to settle in on something to start 

[Equanimous Phil]

On 6/6/2024 at 6:17 PM, Shagnasty Pete said:

Anyone using RS14.. 

Yes. 

On 6/6/2024 at 6:17 PM, Shagnasty Pete said:

.. and have a source in the USA?

No.

But last August I had some e-mail chat with the head of Reload Swiss. RS already produces some powders for Alliant and they also offered RS14. So, there might be a slight chance that you can buy it from Alliant somewhen in the future.

Everyone who misses Trail Boss could write to Alliant?

Or ask someone who imports other powders if they're willing to import RS14? 

 

Greetings from Switzerland

Equanimous Phil

[Rye Miles #13621]

You can use Clays for everything. I use it for shotgun. I use TiteGroup for pistol and rifles but if TiteGroup disappears I’ll use Clays for everything.

[Jack Spade]

Clays and it's siblings universal and international are just as hard to find as Trail Boss and none has been imported in several years.  Even the Alliant version Clay Dot is almost impossible to find.   When shopping for powder either in a store or online I google the powder and cowboy action load.  Usually there will be links to threads that have been posted discussing that powder and how it applies to CAS.  So for instance "Red dot cowboy action load" and that brings up lots of results with discussion about the powder and often load data for our sport. 

[Leroy Luck]

4 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

You can use Clays for everything. I use it for shotgun. I use TiteGroup for pistol and rifles but if TiteGroup disappears I’ll use Clays for everything.

There is shotshell load data out there for titegroup. It can be used for everything in cowboy. I’ve not used it in shotshells though. 

[Shagnasty Pete]

Such valuable information, thanks!

 

Found 10# of TiteGroup locally. Going to pick it up tomorrow and get the old 550C fired up.

 

Long Hunter told me you folks were the best - He was right on!!’

[Bison Bud]

I've used Trailboss and still have some that I occasionally load 45-70 loads with, but I have to say that I think there are a lot better propellants out there for most of our purposes.  I guess the one real advantage is it's bulk and that it's difficult if not impossible to double charge a cartridge, but there are other ways to prevent that from happening.  A powder check die or a visual inspection prior to seating the bullet should take care of this issue with less bulky powders and there are many that make fine light target loads in virtually any caliber/cartridge that we use in this game.  My personal favorite was Clays, because I think it is the cleanest at lighter loads, but it has been pretty much impossible to obtain and I now use Clay Dot (it was all I could find at the time) for my .38/.357 and .44 Special/Magnum loads.  I also really like Tightgroup for my rifle rounds as I generally load .357 cases to feed well in my Marlin carbine and it has proven to be less position sensitive than most other propellants.  However, I don't like it as well in the handguns because of it's sharp report and recoil impulse, but it does make a decent handgun load as well should one want to make up a single load for both handguns and the rifle.  I have also used HP38/Winchester 231, American Select, Unique, and Red Dot with good success and would use them again if available when I need to stock up again.  All in all, the component market is pretty "iffy" these days and we all need to learn to adapt and stock up whenever possible.  Should Trailboss ever come back, I would probably buy some more, but I can also get along without it and due to it's niche market, I've got a feeling that it may never go back into production again.  Only time will tell the tale.  Good luck and good shooting to all!

[Three Foot Johnson]

Trail Boss was discontinued June 1st, 2018. I've seen it sell (not just the "asking price") for as much $427.50 for a 9 oz can, PLUS shipping & hazmat. There have been rumors ever since that it's coming back "this fall" or "next year", but after six years and being such a niche powder, along with the current shortage of nitrocellulose, I doubt we'll ever see it again. There is a five pounder on Gunbroker right now for $1849.99 shipped, and a completed auction for a five pounder that sold for $1350, shipped via "Buy it Now" five weeks ago.

[El Chapo]

1 hour ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

Trail Boss was discontinued June 1st, 2018. I've seen it sell (not just the "asking price") for as much $427.50 for a 9 oz can, PLUS shipping & hazmat. There have been rumors ever since that it's coming back "this fall" or "next year", but after six years and being such a niche powder, along with the current shortage of nitrocellulose, I doubt we'll ever see it again. There is a five pounder on Gunbroker right now for $1849.99 shipped, and a completed auction for a five pounder that sold for $1350, shipped via "Buy it Now" five weeks ago.

 

Wow, I didn't realize the can I have in the cabinet is worth enough for me to retire on.  One of our shooters showed up at a local match a few months ago selling them for $20 each.  I passed so as to not be addicted to a discontinued powder.

Edited June 10 by El Chapo

[Tall John]

For those of you addicted to Trail Boss, I saw where John Barleycorn posted recently that he has a couple of 5lb jugs for sale.  See his post on the merchant wire.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

On 6/6/2024 at 12:53 PM, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Fills the case pretty well?? How much are you using?  I use 3.2 gr of N320 in .38's on my 550 and can barely see it in the bottom of the case.

Just to follow up - I was loading .38's today so I checked.  I can quadruple charge 3.2 gr of N320 in a .38 and still have about 1/4" of space at the top.  So, NOT FLUFFY! 

[BenW]

I've been loading my .38 Specials with the starting load of Win 244, seems to be widely available and not too expensive.  Has been working well for me.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

On 6/6/2024 at 4:25 PM, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

There are suitable powders like HP-38,

 

When I first started reloading, I used HP-38 with good results.   But I soon switched Trail Boss for just about everything and really loved it.  When TB became unavailable, I switched back to 38.

This happened...



I apparently double charged a couple of rounds, and two my friends were surprised by them in a very nasty way.   No one was hurt, and it is no one's fault but my own.  But I am very wary of trying HP-38 (Or Win231 which is the same stuff) again.

[Sedalia Dave]

29 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

When I first started reloading, I used HP-38 with good results.   But I soon switched Trail Boss for just about everything and really loved it.  When TB became unavailable, I switched back to 38.

This happened...



I apparently double charged a couple of rounds, and two my friends were surprised by them in a very nasty way.   No one was hurt, and it is no one's fault but my own.  But I am very wary of trying HP-38 (Or Win231 which is the same stuff) again.

 

That would have happened with almost all the fast pistol powders.  Super easy to double charge a case as it doesn't take up much space in the case.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

5 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

When I first started reloading, I used HP-38 with good results.   But I soon switched Trail Boss for just about everything and really loved it.  When TB became unavailable, I switched back to 38.

This happened...



I apparently double charged a couple of rounds, and two my friends were surprised by them in a very nasty way.   No one was hurt, and it is no one's fault but my own.  But I am very wary of trying HP-38 (Or Win231 which is the same stuff) again.

HKU, HP-38/W231 is not unique in its ability to overpressure and destroy firearms.  Most powder distributors sell pistol and shotgun powders that can cause damage like pictured.  Since Trail Boss is unavailable you could load with BP or a sub as TC suggested.  Or you could load on a progressive press with a powder check die.  Every loading session my RCBS powder check die stops the press when powder fails to drop, saving me a squib round.  It's never caught a double charge but would do so with high reliability.