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Can a 92 be made to work with shorter shells?


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Posted (edited)

Simple question, is there a way to allow a Winchester 92 to reliably run shorter shells?

 

What I mean is pretty straightforward   A .44 Magnum 92 can at least supposedly run .44 Specials, but in my experience, it is an iffy proposition.  (240 grainers with a slightly longer overall length work fine, but 200 grain bullet cartridges, with a slightly shorter OAL tend to stovepipe)  I'd assume trying to run .44 Russians will not work at all.

My brother's Rossi 92 in .357 Magnum would usually run .38 Specials okay, but had problems with .38 Long Colt jamming the gun and .38 Short Colt feeding 2 rounds at once.

I'd assume one in .45 Colt would have similar problems with .45 S&W or .45 Cowboy Special.    To say nothing of one chambered for .454 Casull.  

Would any theoretical fix make the longer cartridges no longer fit?  Or can it be done at all? 

 

 

Edited by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619
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think how the cartridges come from the mag tube into the receiver

 

they come onto the carrier and the length of the cartridge keeps the next one from also ending up on the carrier.

If the cartridge is too long it will jam up the action--carrier can't go up as part of the cartridge, the bullet will still be in the tube

if it is too short then the cartridge will be on the carrier and part of the one in front of this one will also be on the carrier, again a jam

 

the length needs to be just right so the cartridge will be carried up to the chamber.

 

some rifles have aftermarket carriers available that would be set up for longer or shorter cartridges.  

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Actually, the 1892 design has a positive spring loaded cartridge stop on the left side of the receiver that catches the rim of the last cartridge in the magazine to keep it from going onto the carrier.  It gets released when the action is closed, allowing a single cartridge to exit the magazine onto the carrier.  The fly in the ointment will be if the cartridge stop moves back into the block position once carrier is fully down.  the left upper corner of the carrier could be modified to make that happen... but it would entail a lot of trial and error, which includes assembly and disassembly to test.  Then, there's also the position, length and width of the slots in the guides.

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Posted (edited)

 

How much money you got??  How much of it you wanna spend??  There are posable modifications of the cartridge stop that can mitigate double feeding.  Then the cartridge guides have to be modified to reliably (almost) feed shorter rounds from the carrier, and the carrier has to have its timing modified.  Once all these considerations have been worked out, the rifle will probably only work with a specific cartridge/bullet combination, and not necessarily 100% reliable.  Personally, when I had my shingle out, I was asked several times to do it, but didn't think the return was worth the time it would take in a single job.  I also estimated the cost, whether successful, would be at least double the original cost of the rifle.  Really not worth the time and effort.

 

PS:  Griff has a good start but there are lots of flies in the ointment and in every step.  No one single change will make it work.  Everything in the action has to work in concert.  Takes enormous amounts of trial and error.

Edited by Colorado Coffinmaker
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I'm a 92 man myself. 

I started with a 44magnum 92 years ago .

I have very successfully loaded and used 44 special for many years .

I load a long load 44 special. 

I use a 200gr  Lee casted bullet .

I pan lube the bullet too the first lube groove and seat the bullet at the second lube groove .

This makes the 44 special just a hair shorter then the 44 magnum. 

And it will cycle just as well as the 44 magnum cartridge. 

So your answer is YES .

Rooster 

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JUST SHOOT WHAT THE GUN IS DESIGNED FOR!!!!!!

 

This is a very funny statement, considering most every gun we use in SASS, if you want to be competitive, has been heavily modified. Short stroke rifles and pistols, lowered hammers, aluminum parts replacing brass parts, larger front sights, lever wraps, holsters with most of the gun exposed, extremely light loaded cartridges, removed safeties, light springs, the list goes on and on. So to tell this guy to just leave it alone seems a bit hypocritical.

 

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Posted (edited)

Yes it can be done. 
 

Modify the cartridge stop tab on the carrier. 
 

If it’s a rimed cartridge, then you have to weld up the slots in the cartridge guides and then cut new ones of the proper width and angle to support the shorter cartridge. 
 

If a rimless cartridge like 45 ACP or 9 mm the cartridge guide slots are immaterial. 
 

Bolt face including extractor will have to be modified to fit the cartridge if it is now rimless. 

Bullet profile will be critical. Has to feed into the chamber at the new angle created by using a shorter cartridge. 
 

BTW a 92 was modified for use by either the Brazilian military or national police to shoot 45ACP. Don’t remember much about it but I’m sure it existed. 
 

 

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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17 hours ago, Dilli GaHoot Galoot said:

Not sure if this is what you were thinking of, but relevant anyway 

 

 

Yeah, I almost bought one of those once.   Lost on Gunbroker at the end of the auction.  After my bid held for many days, the bid price shot way up at the end, and I passed.

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Well, it sounds to me like a gun in the Magnum caliber can probably run the Specials as long as you load 'em long.   But getting it to run even shorter cartridges would require a lot of work and modifications.   Perhaps a .38 Special could run Long Colts, but I am more interested in the 44s.  All sounds reasonable to me.   

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On 5/30/2024 at 10:31 PM, Sedalia Dave said:

Yes it can be done. 
 

Modify the cartridge stop tab on the carrier. 
 

If it’s a rimed cartridge, then you have to weld up the slots in the cartridge guides and then cut new ones of the proper width and angle to support the shorter cartridge. 
 

If a rimless cartridge like 45 ACP or 9 mm the cartridge guide slots are immaterial. 
 

Bolt face including extractor will have to be modified to fit the cartridge if it is now rimless. 

Bullet profile will be critical. Has to feed into the chamber at the new angle created by using a shorter cartridge. 
 

BTW a 92 was modified for use by either the Brazilian military or national police to shoot 45ACP. Don’t remember much about it but I’m sure it existed. 
 

 

 

Yes, what Dave said.

Just going for slow aimed fire , which I know none of us are, you don't need anything but a competent fitting of the guns internals. The spring loaded cartridge stop will allow that to work fine but as you outrun that stop the oal length of the cartridge is what holds the next round back so the stop can catch it. For speed with shorter cartridges of the same dimensions other than length, modify the lifter cartridge stop as mentioned. You will be limited then to the shorter cartridge length which is why most choose to simply load a longer oal in specials.

 

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