Coyote Cap 1887?

[The Verdigris Kid]

When I first got into SASS I bought a NIB Coyote Cap 1887 from a member. This was before I found out that there were ones that were stamped as such but were not actually worked on by Coyote Cap.

 

How can one differentiate between the two? Would be interested in if I got a deal or a snow job.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Here is how the Coyote Cap 1887s were marked.  This is an early one that I personally got directly from Cap.

 

 

I think you may be thinking of the last batch of Norinco 1897s.  Cap worked on many and they were marked CB and the serial number.  Supposedly IAC imported many that were marked CB but had not been worked on personally by Cap.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

CAP worked '87s have the hammers marked for his records.

 

[Sedalia Dave]

AFAIK any 87 CC worked on has a unique serial number and signature etched into it.   Either on the hammer or the side of the bolt. Can only be seen with the action open.

 

The very first 87 I bought was one of the ones that were stamped on the side of the receiver as shown in the OP picture. However it did not have his Drop 2 modification. 

 

IIRC, When CC was still with us if you sent one of those to him he would fix it for free. Seems like there were about 200 imported that fit this category.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

15 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

The very first 87 I bought was one of the ones that were stamped on the side of the receiver as shown in the OP picture. However it did not have his Drop 2 modification. 

It did have a "drop 2".  The early ones had a tab on the front of the carrier that went into a large hole in the magazine follower.

[Sedalia Dave]

35 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

It did have a "drop 2".  The early ones had a tab on the front of the carrier that went into a large hole in the magazine follower.

 

Mine did not. The carrier tab was barely long enough to reached the follower and the follower only had a small indentation. I eventually sold it to a non-CAS shooter that loved stoking the magazine.

 

 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

It has been about 15 years so I forgot.  Yes you are right the followers initially had a shallow indentation with a small lip on the front of the carrier.  He modified mine before he delivered it by drilling out the indentation and making a hole and slightly enlarging the front of the carrier tab.  Even that did not work all that well as if you pushed the carrier down too hard it just bounced out of the hole and dropped to the bottom of the receiver.  I modified mine with a positive internal stop like Lassiter now uses.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

here’s a pic of my Coyote Cap ‘87. I bought it 2010 and it had a basic drop 2 mod, but it was easy to push past the detent in mag plug. Still, it was much better than box stock.
 

Cap offered a “race ready” package that made the drop two more positive, but still allows stoking the magazine. It also keeps the action fully open for loading, where the other tended to partially close when handled. With the race package, he also jeweled the bolt and added his serial number & signature. I had him do this mod around 2011. It’s a great ’87. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Just now, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

here’s a pic of my Coyote Cap ‘87. I bought it 2010 and it had a basic drop 2 mod, but it was easy to push past the detent in mag plug. Still, it was much better than box stock.
 

Cap offered a “race ready” package that made the drop two more positive, but still allows stoking the magazine. It also keeps the action fully open for loading, where the other tended to partially close when handled. With the race package, he also jeweled the bolt and added his serial number & signature. It’s a great ’87. 

Exactly how our 2 are marked. 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

OP the history of the Coyote Cap 1887s is long and complicated.  The fact that some guns are inscribed and some are not is not dispositive.  The inscribed ones mean Cap did additional work on them.  There are lots of genuine Coyote Cap 87s that did not have the "race ready" package.  If it has the Coyote Cap roll stamp on the receiver AND it has an 18 1/2 barrel it is almost for sure a Coyote Cap Special.  The standard model 87s had 20" barrels.  Have you looked to see if it has some sort of drop 2 system?

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

11 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

OP the history of the Coyote Cap 1887s is long and complicated.  The fact that some guns are inscribed and some are not is not dispositive.  The inscribed ones mean Cap did additional work on them.  There are lots of genuine Coyote Cap 87s that did not have the "race ready" package.  If it has the Coyote Cap roll stamp on the receiver AND it has an 18 1/2 barrel it is almost for sure a Coyote Cap Special.  The standard model 87s had 20" barrels.  Have you looked to see if it has some sort of drop 2 system?

That’s how it worked in my case. Mine was a CC modified gun without any external markings. The jeweling, signature and stamping on the receiver came with race package. Cap even asked my permission to add the markings. 

[Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L]

I was on Cap's waiting list for 2 1/2 years and received a SN in the 180's in June 2006. It is roll stamped just like Larsen's but there is no etching on the hammer or anywhere else.

 

FWIW - My '87 is still in its original form.

 

 

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

was among the many years' wait group, pretty much at the front of that line--mine is #90.  when I sent it back to get the Drop-2 it got the fancy engraving on the side of the lever.  

[Warden Callaway]

I had one for a short while. Box and tubes. Favorite gunshop had it priced like a PW87. Bought it to flip. Made a good traid then sold the traid and made out well. 

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

11 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

OP the history of the Coyote Cap 1887s is long and complicated.  The fact that some guns are inscribed and some are not is not dispositive.  The inscribed ones mean Cap did additional work on them.  There are lots of genuine Coyote Cap 87s that did not have the "race ready" package.  If it has the Coyote Cap roll stamp on the receiver AND it has an 18 1/2 barrel it is almost for sure a Coyote Cap Special.  The standard model 87s had 20" barrels.  Have you looked to see if it has some sort of drop 2 system?

Don't forget the screw in chokes 

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Don't forget the screw in chokes 

still have mine as well as the choke "wrench"  Cap made it a point when we talked to ask about them

[Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409]

After reading this post I have to go and look at my Coyote Cap 87 to look for additional engravings on the side of the lever. This has been my main match shotgun for the past few seasons.

Was at the PA state match this weekend and used it for a Wild Bunch side match. The drop 2 works perfectly and was happy to learn that I can load 5 in the tube. Is there a way to load 6 in the tube?

 

Hochbauer

 

[Sedalia Dave]

10 minutes ago, Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409 said:

After reading this post I have to go and look at my Coyote Cap 87 to look for additional engravings on the side of the lever. This has been my main match shotgun for the past few seasons.

Was at the PA state match this weekend and used it for a Wild Bunch side match. The drop 2 works perfectly and was happy to learn that I can load 5 in the tube. Is there a way to load 6 in the tube?

 

Hochbauer

 

 

The 6th round will sit on the carrier. As you close the lever it will be pushed part way into the magazine tube.  If the lever binds don't force it. 

 

You have a couple options. You can trim a few coils off the existing magazine spring. This doesn't always work as the diameter of the wire used to make the stock spring is pretty large.

 

The other option is to replace it with one made of smaller diameter wire and trim it to the required length. A magazine spring from a 97, Model 12 or an 870 will work.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

52 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

 

The other option is to replace it with one made of smaller diameter wire and trim it to the required length. A magazine spring from a 97, Model 12 or an 870 will work.

And Mossberg 

[Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409]

Thanks for the info will be ordering a new spring.

 

 

Hochbauer

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

Just a note. 
having a signed or engraved firearm is no guarantee of origin. 
I have a 97, currently new unfired serial number CB xxx1x that I purchased at Winter Range directly from Cap. No engraving or signing. 
At the same event I purchased another 97 to use for WB directly from a well known gunsmith who walked over to Cap’s trailer and brought it back to me serial number CB xx11x. No engraving or signature. The WB gun has been my go to with no other modifications since. The other is too pretty to shoot and stays in the safe. 
Regards

    

Gateway Kid