cowboy with severe memory problems Nevada Sweep at each stage--keeping a shooter in our sport Up-date at bottom

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

we have a cowboy that came out on the short end of the stick during COVID. 

 

While he can safely shoot he has suffered major memory problems.  He can't remember the sweeps from the time the buzzer goes off till he gets to the second firearm.

 

What do you think about allowing him to shoot Nevada Sweeps at all the stages no matter what the scenarios call for?  He knows he would get a "P" but just wants to be able to shoot--he is always at the very bottom so it's not like he's trying to 'game' the match.

 

I feel this is a way to keep him in our hobby/sport/obsession for as long as possible.  His long-term diagnosis is continued memory decline.

 

cr

 

 

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

I would say that as long as he can shoot the guns safely, the scoring is not important. 

[Cypress Sun]

12 minutes ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

we have a cowboy that came out on the short end of the stick during COVID. 

 

While he can safely shoot he has suffered major memory problems.  He can't remember the sweeps from the time the buzzer goes off till he gets to the second firearm.

 

What do you think about allowing him to shoot Nevada Sweeps at all the stages no matter what the scenarios call for?  He knows he would get a "P" but just wants to be able to shoot--he is always at the very bottom so it's not like he's trying to 'game' the match.

 

I feel this is a way to keep him in our hobby/sport/obsession for as long as possible.  His long-term diagnosis is continued memory decline.

 

cr

 

 

 

As long as he can safely shoot, then I would have not problem with him shooting. I do, however, think he should shoot, or attempt to shoot, the same stages as everyone else has to shoot. If he gets a penalty for forgetting the stage, so be it. The joy of shooting a stage correctly, while maybe rare, would be worth it to him and the rest of the posse could celebrate in his accomplishment. Who knows, it may even help his condition somewhat.

[Rye Miles #13621]

When he shoots score all the Ps but skip the 3 Ps resulting in a MDQ.

[Cypress Sun]

 

Never heard of 3 - P's = MDQ before.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

44 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

When he shoots score all the Ps but skip the 3 Ps resulting in a MDQ.

 

No such rule.

The "progressive" P/SDQ/MDQ only applies to “Failure to adhere to the guidelines of the shooting category”

 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Some years back, we had a shooter at one of our clubs, who came as often as able.  He also had a real memory problem.  He was on the far side of 75 or 80.  We had a simple solution.  We simply didn't count "Ps" at all.  Just misses.  Worked well for all.  He has since passed and will be missed.

 

Play the Game as long as you can.

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

3 hours ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

hat do you think about allowing him to shoot Nevada Sweeps at all the stages no matter what the scenarios call for?

 

JMHO, but I believe that truly embodies the concept of "The Spirit Of The Game" and I applaud your club for your compassion 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Let him shoot.   Then let the club decide as to awarding 'P's and such.

 

Priority ONE:   Safety

Priority TWO:  fun

 

..........Widder

 

[Alpo]

If he can't remember the sweep order from the time of the stage instructions to the time that he goes to shoot, why not just have the timer tell him how to shoot the sweep.

 

"Left to right, 1 2 3 2 1."

"Right to left, 12233".

Whatever it is.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

A number of you have read this story before.

We had a local shooter "Know Justice" that suffered from brain cancer - he endured many drawn out treatments; chemo and multiple surgeries.

He never lost his love for and desire to participate in Cowboy Action.

But as anyone who has gone through these treatments or watched a loved one do so - they are devastating upon the body and stamina.

 

Know Justice was able to shoot safely; but had issues with remembering sequences.

I spent the last couple years of his life being his "designated" timer - I would direct every shot to assist him thru the stage.

 

As he weakened - he began having trouble with movement and carrying firearms; we would carry his firearms to their staging positions and (I was younger and stronger then) I would hold the timer right handed and wrap his suspenders up in my left so if he stumbled I could hold him up.

 

He got weaker and weaker and even after we accepted that we had lost the battle - he wanted to keep shooting.

 

When he reached the point that he could no longer hold his 97 up one handed as to pull shells from his belt; I would clip the timer to my own suspenders, hold him up with my left hand and load his shotgun from my belt so all he had to do was keep both hands on the shotgun and pump the action.

 

I once had a shooter "tell" me that we should be calling penalties on these actions and that we should make him stop shooting.

I informed this shooter that as long as he wanted to do so and I felt he could do so safely; even if that required me carrying him in my arms or on my back - he would continue shooting...

And they were more than welcome to leave if they disagreed.

 

When Know Justice passed - his self written eulogy was read.  The only people he mentioned by name were myself and Buffalo Sam; not his children, not his  neighbors, nor anyone else from his nearly 80 years of life.

 

Cheyenne - I DO NOT care what anyone else says.

You allow this shooter to participate in whatever capacity they are able; for as long as they are able.

Accomodate them in any way necessary to allow them to play - the day will come soon enough that they will no longer be able. 

 

I miss Know Justice and treasure every single day that I had with him.

I wish I had one more.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

41 minutes ago, Alpo said:

If he can't remember the sweep order from the time of the stage instructions to the time that he goes to shoot, why not just have the timer tell him how to shoot the sweep.

 

"Left to right, 1 2 3 2 1."

"Right to left, 12233".

Whatever it is.

I haven't shot for a while, but unless my remember is wrong, isn't it part of the timer's JOB to help shooter through the stage? Or don't we do that anymore?

[One Gun Jimmy]

I don't know of any reason to not let him shoot, I honestly see zero reason to count P's if he's not a top contender.

 

What I do know, I watched my dad's health take his passions away from him and it was damn unfair.

 

As long as it can be done SAFELY for him and all participants......carry on pard.

[Rye Miles #13621]

10 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

When he shoots score all the Ps but skip the 3 Ps resulting in a MDQ.

I guess I was confusing this with the progressive penalties for shooting out of category as Pale Wolf stated. Sorry.

Oh well just let him shoot and coach him as best you can.

[Eyesa Horg]

11 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

As long as he can safely shoot, then I would have not problem with him shooting. I do, however, think he should shoot, or attempt to shoot, the same stages as everyone else has to shoot. If he gets a penalty for forgetting the stage, so be it. The joy of shooting a stage correctly, while maybe rare, would be worth it to him and the rest of the posse could celebrate in his accomplishment. Who knows, it may even help his condition somewhat.

This ^^^

[Eyesa Horg]

6 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

A number of you have read this story before.

We had a local shooter "Know Justice" that suffered from brain cancer - he endured many drawn out treatments; chemo and multiple surgeries.

He never lost his love for and desire to participate in Cowboy Action.

But as anyone who has gone through these treatments or watched a loved one do so - they are devastating upon the body and stamina.

 

Know Justice was able to shoot safely; but had issues with remembering sequences.

I spent the last couple years of his life being his "designated" timer - I would direct every shot to assist him thru the stage.

 

As he weakened - he began having trouble with movement and carrying firearms; we would carry his firearms to their staging positions and (I was younger and stronger then) I would hold the timer right handed and wrap his suspenders up in my left so if he stumbled I could hold him up.

 

He got weaker and weaker and even after we accepted that we had lost the battle - he wanted to keep shooting.

 

When he reached the point that he could no longer hold his 97 up one handed as to pull shells from his belt; I would clip the timer to my own suspenders, hold him up with my left hand and load his shotgun from my belt so all he had to do was keep both hands on the shotgun and pump the action.

 

I once had a shooter "tell" me that we should be calling penalties on these actions and that we should make him stop shooting.

I informed this shooter that as long as he wanted to do so and I felt he could do so safely; even if that required me carrying him in my arms or on my back - he would continue shooting...

And they were more than welcome to leave if they disagreed.

 

When Know Justice passed - his self written eulogy was read.  The only people he mentioned by name were myself and Buffalo Sam; not his children, not his  neighbors, nor anyone else from his nearly 80 years of life.

 

Cheyenne - I DO NOT care what anyone else says.

You allow this shooter to participate in whatever capacity they are able; for as long as they are able.

Accomodate them in any way necessary to allow them to play - the day will come soon enough that they will no longer be able. 

 

I miss Know Justice and treasure every single day that I had with him.

I wish I had one more.

Good on you Creeker, thank you.

[Chantry]

13 hours ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

we have a cowboy that came out on the short end of the stick during COVID. 

 

While he can safely shoot he has suffered major memory problems.  He can't remember the sweeps from the time the buzzer goes off till he gets to the second firearm.

 

What do you think about allowing him to shoot Nevada Sweeps at all the stages no matter what the scenarios call for?  He knows he would get a "P" but just wants to be able to shoot--he is always at the very bottom so it's not like he's trying to 'game' the match.

 

I feel this is a way to keep him in our hobby/sport/obsession for as long as possible.  His long-term diagnosis is continued memory decline.

 

cr

 

 

 

As long as he is safe, let him shoot.  Anybody at your club who disagrees should be told to shut up or leave.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

Can't you call it something other than "Planned P"? 

That conjures up a completely different image of your stages. 

[bgavin]

16 hours ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

While he can safely shoot he has suffered major memory problems.  He can't remember the sweeps from the time the buzzer goes off till he gets to the second firearm.

I can SO relate to this.

[Cypress Sun]

2 hours ago, Chantry said:

 

As long as he is safe, let him shoot.  Anybody at your club who disagrees should be told to shut up or leave.

 

Keep in mind that one person's definition of "shooting safely" and another's may differ based on familiarity with and popularity of the shooter.

 

It ain't fun being the dissenting opinion...either way.

 

 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Oft times we run into folks who consider themselves the "Keepers of the Rules" although usually, they haven't even read the rules.  Those folks often presume to be Judge, Jury and Executioner of anything they disagree with.  Those folks should be sent home and to bed without desert.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

25 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Oft times we run into folks who consider themselves the "Keepers of the Rules" although usually, they haven't even read the rules.  Those folks often presume to be Judge, Jury and Executioner of anything they disagree with.  Those folks should be sent home and to bed without desert.

The ONLY Keeper of the Rules is PaleWolf Brunelle. 

[Chantry]

2 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Keep in mind that one person's definition of "shooting safely" and another's may differ based on familiarity with and popularity of the shooter.

 

It ain't fun being the dissenting opinion...either way.

 

 

 In this case, safe is defined as according to SASS rules

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

14 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

A number of you have read this story before.

We had a local shooter "Know Justice" that suffered from brain cancer - he endured many drawn out treatments; chemo and multiple surgeries.

He never lost his love for and desire to participate in Cowboy Action.

But as anyone who has gone through these treatments or watched a loved one do so - they are devastating upon the body and stamina.

 

Know Justice was able to shoot safely; but had issues with remembering sequences.

I spent the last couple years of his life being his "designated" timer - I would direct every shot to assist him thru the stage.

 

As he weakened - he began having trouble with movement and carrying firearms; we would carry his firearms to their staging positions and (I was younger and stronger then) I would hold the timer right handed and wrap his suspenders up in my left so if he stumbled I could hold him up.

 

He got weaker and weaker and even after we accepted that we had lost the battle - he wanted to keep shooting.

 

When he reached the point that he could no longer hold his 97 up one handed as to pull shells from his belt; I would clip the timer to my own suspenders, hold him up with my left hand and load his shotgun from my belt so all he had to do was keep both hands on the shotgun and pump the action.

 

I once had a shooter "tell" me that we should be calling penalties on these actions and that we should make him stop shooting.

I informed this shooter that as long as he wanted to do so and I felt he could do so safely; even if that required me carrying him in my arms or on my back - he would continue shooting...

And they were more than welcome to leave if they disagreed.

 

When Know Justice passed - his self written eulogy was read.  The only people he mentioned by name were myself and Buffalo Sam; not his children, not his  neighbors, nor anyone else from his nearly 80 years of life.

 

Cheyenne - I DO NOT care what anyone else says.

You allow this shooter to participate in whatever capacity they are able; for as long as they are able.

Accomodate them in any way necessary to allow them to play - the day will come soon enough that they will no longer be able. 

 

I miss Know Justice and treasure every single day that I had with him.

I wish I had one more.

Creeker, I think you’re a helluva guy!!!

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

thanks to all for their input, insights, and suggestions

 

the club plan has been finalized

 

he will shoot a Nevada Sweep at each stage

no Ps

RO will continue to shepherd him as they have done in the past

 

not mentioned above but we'll also continue to stage his longs guns and recover them at the end of his string

 

we want him to continue in this hobby/sport/obsession for as long as he can safely do it. 

 

As one of our members said, "There but for the Grace of God . . . "

 

 

 

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

24 minutes ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said:

Creeker, I think you’re a helluva guy!!!

Not really - I am stubborn, hard headed, obstinate - sometimes too quick to anger and too slow to forgive.

 

But I do "try" to do right.

But I am well aware there are 1000's within our game much better than me.

[Subdeacon Joe]

16 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Not really - I am stubborn, hard headed, obstinate - sometimes too quick to anger and too slow to forgive.

 Yep!  A  helluva good guy!

 

26 minutes ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

As one of our members said, "There but for the Grace of God . . . "

 

I've been saying that a lot recently.  

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

8 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Oft times we run into folks who consider themselves the "Keepers of the Rules" although usually, they haven't even read the rules.  Those folks often presume to be Judge, Jury and Executioner of anything they disagree with.  Those folks should be sent home and to bed without desert.

 

Many times they are also the same folks that can't "win" unless someone (or everyone) else "loses" 

 

Not all things in this life are about keeping score and stacking points. 

[Buckshot Bear]

Good post with a good ending.

[DeaconKC]

7 hours ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

thanks to all for their input, insights, and suggestions

 

the club plan has been finalized

 

he will shoot a Nevada Sweep at each stage

no Ps

RO will continue to shepherd him as they have done in the past

 

not mentioned above but we'll also continue to stage his longs guns and recover them at the end of his string

 

we want him to continue in this hobby/sport/obsession for as long as he can safely do it. 

 

As one of our members said, "There but for the Grace of God . . . "

 

 

 

Well done for you all!

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

I've now passed 80, survived cancer, radiation and chemo (so far), need both knees replaced, lost my dear wife of 54 years but still get out with the posses to have fun, thanks to some great pards, who on the bad days will carry my long guns to the line and retrieve them, if I don't fight them off.

This is a great sport and I thank Don B. for getting me involved 23 years ago.

[Woogiebear]

On 5/12/2024 at 12:00 AM, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

A number of you have read this story before.

We had a local shooter "Know Justice" that suffered from brain cancer - he endured many drawn out treatments; chemo and multiple surgeries.

He never lost his love for and desire to participate in Cowboy Action.

But as anyone who has gone through these treatments or watched a loved one do so - they are devastating upon the body and stamina.

 

Know Justice was able to shoot safely; but had issues with remembering sequences.

I spent the last couple years of his life being his "designated" timer - I would direct every shot to assist him thru the stage.

 

As he weakened - he began having trouble with movement and carrying firearms; we would carry his firearms to their staging positions and (I was younger and stronger then) I would hold the timer right handed and wrap his suspenders up in my left so if he stumbled I could hold him up.

 

He got weaker and weaker and even after we accepted that we had lost the battle - he wanted to keep shooting.

 

When he reached the point that he could no longer hold his 97 up one handed as to pull shells from his belt; I would clip the timer to my own suspenders, hold him up with my left hand and load his shotgun from my belt so all he had to do was keep both hands on the shotgun and pump the action.

 

I once had a shooter "tell" me that we should be calling penalties on these actions and that we should make him stop shooting.

I informed this shooter that as long as he wanted to do so and I felt he could do so safely; even if that required me carrying him in my arms or on my back - he would continue shooting...

And they were more than welcome to leave if they disagreed.

 

When Know Justice passed - his self written eulogy was read.  The only people he mentioned by name were myself and Buffalo Sam; not his children, not his  neighbors, nor anyone else from his nearly 80 years of life.

 

Cheyenne - I DO NOT care what anyone else says.

You allow this shooter to participate in whatever capacity they are able; for as long as they are able.

Accomodate them in any way necessary to allow them to play - the day will come soon enough that they will no longer be able. 

 

I miss Know Justice and treasure every single day that I had with him.

I wish I had one more.

And this is what it’s all about. Not about scores. Penalties. It’s about doing something you love as long as you can. Great job! I would def do the same and would hope someone would do the same for me.