41 Colt Caliber Legal for Classic?

[Major Art Tillery]

So had an interesting question asked... Is 41 Colt Classic Legal?  

 

Originally a heeled bullet with the main protruding bullet ranging from .401 - .408

 

BUT......

 

The common bullet today is a .386, often with a hollow base (from what I have read) that will bump up to .401 down the barrel... (In this particular Colt anyway)

 

What do you folks think?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

My understanding is that anything 40 cal. or larger is legal in classic cowboy, so your 41 colt caliber is legal. I have a pard that shoots 38/40 in classic 

Rafe

[Dutch Coroner]

https://gunsmagazine.com/our-experts/the-41-colt/

 

Here is a good article on the cartridge that I found with my GoogleFu it is written by Mike "Duke" Venturino.

 

From the article:  Without delving into definite introduction dates, here’s how the .41 Colt story played out. In the 1870s a little pop-gun called Colt’s New Line Pocket revolver was introduced. Its cartridge was .41 Colt with a case length nominally of 0.63″ with 163-grain heel-type lead bullet over 15 grains of black powder. A few years later, along with the revolutionary Colt Model 1877DA, a more powerful .41 Colt load appeared. It had a 0.93″ case with 200-grain heel-type lead bullet and 21 or 22 grains of black powder. This second round gained the moniker “Long” and the former one was then called “Short.” Various sources rate these heel-type bullets as being from 0.401″ to 0.408″ in diameter. The single .41 Short Colt round in my collection has a 0.401″ bullet.

 

Also from the article: 

Sometime in the late 1800s an unknown person involved in ammunition production got a brainstorm. I imagine him thinking, “Why don’t we make the bullet fit inside the case just like .44 S&W Russian and .45 Colt had done since the early 1870s?” The fly in the ointment was this — Colt .41 barrels were 0.400″ to 0.408″ across their rifling grooves and reducing bullets enough to fit inside cartridge cases made them only 0.386″. Of course the Civil War was recent history at the time and the most famous projectile used therein was the Minie Ball. It was a hollow-based, pure lead bullet, undersized in regards to rifle-musket barrels. Minie Balls would slide easily down a rifled barrel. When fired the soft lead “skirts” of the projectile expanded into rifling grooves. The miracle isn’t such a system worked but that it worked so well — to the distress of hundreds of thousands of Civil War soldiers.

And so, another .41 “Long” Colt was born. Cases were made 1.13″ with a deep hollow base in a 200-grain very blunt bullet. Powder charge remained 21/22 grains. By the early 1900s factory loads with smokeless propellants became available.

 

 

From the Handbook:  Revolver and Rifle Calibers: .40 caliber or larger, rimmed cartridges.

 

I defer to the "powers that be" but if today's bullet is .386 in a 41 Colt you might be a harda$$ if you say its not legal.  :-)

 

Dutch

[Cholla]

You can load your own heeled.41 Colt bullets using cast bullets and the right equipment. 

[Major Art Tillery]

2 hours ago, Dutch Coroner said:

 

From the Handbook:  Revolver and Rifle Calibers: .40 caliber or larger, rimmed cartridges.

 

I defer to the "powers that be" but if today's bullet is .386 in a 41 Colt you might be a harda$$ if you say its not legal.  :-)

 

Dutch

Great article, actually read that before I posted this question.  Another classic and I was talking about this cartridge, he shoots a 41 Colt.. I personally have never been about one.

 

My thoughts exactly Dutch, I say it is a perfectly acceptable cartridge for Classic!

[Buckey O'Neill , SASS Life #42761]

Barrel is marked ".41 Colt". Hollow-base bullet is loaded as a .386, but when it exits the barrel, it's at least a .401 bullet. My vote says it's Classic legal.

[Cholla]

https://www.coltforum.com/threads/reloading-41-long-colt.410096/

 

[Sedalia Dave]

IMNSHO it is legal.

 

No different than the requirement that the minimum SASS legal main match caliber is 32.  Both 32-20 and 32 Magnum are included in the list of examples. The actual bullet diameter for both cartridges is .312" which is less than .320"   

( SHB Pg 37 and 39 )

 

In the WB handbook it states that the rifle has to be 38 caliber or larger. .38 Special is legal even though the actual bullet diameter is only 0.357". 357 Magnum is also legal.

( WBHB pg 15 )

 

41 Colt is considered a 41 caliber cartridge just like 38 Colt/Special/357 Mag are considered 38 caliber cartridges and not 35 or 36 caliber cartridges.

 

Many C&B pistols shoot a .457 diameter ball but are considered 44 Caliber not 45 caliber. The same is true for C&B pistols that shoot a .380 diameter ball. They are considered 36 Caliber not 38 caliber.

 

Based on the above examples, a 41 caliber cartridge qualifies as legal even though the physical diameter of the bullet is less than .400" The requirement states 40 caliber or larger not a bullet diameter 0.400" or larger.

 

 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Legality can be based on either the caliber designation for the round (as in the case of the .41 Colt) or on the actual bullet diameter (.e.g. .38-40/.38 WCF...which fires a .401 diameter bullet).

 

Both are LEGAL rounds for the Classic categories.