Why do I have to cock my rifle hammer with my thumb?

[Bladesmith, SASS 113085]

Hello learned colleagues. I’m interested in your thoughts. I have a 92 Rossi. I know what you’re thinking, but before you get carried away, I have a ‘73 getting fancied up by Griner as we speak but I digress. The Rossi has actually been a great starting gun for me and given me less trouble than some of my more widely approved of CAS firearms.
 

The issue I’ve had of late as I’ve gotten SLIGHTLY faster is that I find now that several times a match after working the lever, the round is chambered but the hammer isn’t cocked. I then have to pause and cock it with my thumb before carrying on. Can you cock it just enough to chamber a round but not fully lock the hammer back? Is that the most likely explanation or is there something else I should investigate and or tweak? Many thanks in advance.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

1.  Sometimes its a high primer.   Primers are needed to be seated slightly below the rim.   If they are

seated 'flush', this can give inconsistent ignition.

 

2.  Also, as a shooter gets faster with working their lever rifles, its possible you are working the lever just as the hammer

is able to COMPLETELY fall and strike the firing pin with full force.

The faster you can work the action..... the faster the hammer needs to fall.

 

3.  your hammer spring may be a tad weaker than before.

 

 

..........Widder

 

[Bladesmith, SASS 113085]

@Widder, SASS #59054 Thank you for your observations! I think maybe I didn’t explain my problem clearly though. The issue isn’t that the hammer is failing to ignite the primer. Rather, I’m finding after working the lever, but before I pull the trigger, the hammer is at rest on the firing pin and not in the cocked position despite having successfully chambered a round. Thus I have to cock the hammer separately before I can fire.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

49 minutes ago, Bladesmith, SASS 113085 said:

@Widder, SASS #59054 Thank you for your observations! I think maybe I didn’t explain my problem clearly though. The issue isn’t that the hammer is failing to ignite the primer. Rather, I’m finding after working the lever, but before I pull the trigger, the hammer is at rest on the firing pin and not in the cocked position despite having successfully chambered a round. Thus I have to cock the hammer separately before I can fire.

I ran into that with a Rossi ‘92 in my very early days. 

 

If you can, have someone watch you or even video you. I’m betting you’ve got some finger pulling on the trigger so the sear isn’t fully engaging, if at all. As you close the lever, the hammer follows it down since the sear never locked it back. 

 

 

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Taking a "guess" - part of the speed you may have found might be in your cycling stroke.

92's like a solid stroke traveling to the physical stop - "if" you are not cycling the full stroke; you may not be fully cocking the hammer.

 

73's are a little more forgiving of less than a full cycle.

 

A weak mainspring will also fail to cock the hammer intermittently.

 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Finger on trigger a little too early is a very common reason, and comes as you try to go faster.  A trigger that is even slightly pulled can fail to catch the sear shelf and hold the hammer cocked.   So, you go to pull trigger and find no joy 'cause the hammer is already forward.

 

Try intentionally holding trigger finger straight forward (out of guard) while working the (empty) action real fast.  If you never have the hammer fall, this failure is likely due to your own finger riding the trigger.   If hammer is falling sometime (with no possibility that you are early-tripping the trigger), then a worn sear shelf on the hammer or a chipped/worn tip on the trigger is likely.  And the lighter the hammer spring has been tuned, the more likely all of these hammer-falls will occur.

 

good luck, GJ 

 

 

[WOLFY]

Bladesmith, is your Rossi bone stock?

[Bladesmith, SASS 113085]

Thank you all for the input! I haven’t realized that I’m grabbing the trigger prematurely if that is indeed the case, but that makes a lot of sense. I’ll investigate that possibility. 
 

@WOLFY it is not. It’s been slicked up and has a spring kit from Palo Verde installed. 

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

I have a Browning 53 rifle, which is also a copy of the Win. 92, that was slicked up by the previous owner including a lighter hammer spring. I have the same issue as you from time to time. I think in my case is now and then I just don't quite cycle the lever all the way front allowing the hammer to lock back. What I want to do on mine is make the hammer spring heavier so I don't have to use Federal primers in it.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

You're short stroking the action 

[Bladesmith, SASS 113085]

54 minutes ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

I just don't quite cycle the lever all the way front allowing the hammer to lock back

That was my first thought as well and may be the case. I’ve been more deliberate about making sure I fully cycle the lever and have still had the issue so I’m wondering if I am in fact grabbing the trigger a little early, though could certainly be a combination of the two at times. This conversation has given me some things to check out so I’ll do some testing and monitoring.

Re: the hammer spring on mine at least, I’ve never had a FTF (you know, assuming the hammer is actually cocked) and my revolvers are on a Federal diet so I’ll probably keep that as is for now.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

PLUS ONE for Lump Lump.  Your Short Stroking the action.  Do you have a "Leather Lever Wrap" on the rifle???  With lighter springs you may find running the action hard enough "hurts" and your subconscious wants you to not do that.  With a '92, one needs to run it like you stole it 

[WOLFY]

Slow down.  Don’t bring that lever back before you feel it stop.  A shooting pard of mine had to have his stock shortened (he had shorter forearms for his height).  His rifle was a 92 but I can’t recall it’s mfg.  When he short stroked it, his  hammer would follow the bolt forward.

[Vail Vigilante]

My 92 does this at the range but not in the home.

I diagnosed that when I am trying to get points my technique goes down just enough that my finger drags on the trigger a bit.

Hope this helps.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I love the 92 rifle. 

You Have to run it Deliberately !

[Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326]

Run it like you stoled it!

[Bladesmith, SASS 113085]

5 minutes ago, Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326 said:

Run it like you stoled it!

 I think I’m going to have to run it like I borrowed it until I get this sorted out.

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

"Why do I have to cock my rifle hammer with my thumb?"

Um, cuz it hurts using your nose? 

[Kid Rich]

17 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

"Why do I have to cock my rifle hammer with my thumb?"

Um, cuz it hurts using your nose? 

That is the first response I had but resisted using it. I came back on today and was going to post it. Too late.

kR

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

"Why do I have to cock my Rifle Hammer with my Thumb??"

 

'Cause it's real difficult with yer pinky finger (and slower) 

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Do NOT slow down.  Just be  a little more deliberate and moderately firm.  And the classic advice, lever, trigger, lever trigger! 
Too often we switch the sequence and wonder, What happened?!!

[Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L]

A lot of gunsmiths will polish the hammer or the bolt so that the gun doesn't overcock when cycling the action. This is done to make the cocking smoother.  Add a few years of shooting and the hammer can end up not being pushed back enough to cock it reliably. I face this problem many time a year and not only on Rossi's, but Marlins and 73's.

[Bladesmith, SASS 113085]

8 hours ago, Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L said:

A lot of gunsmiths will polish the hammer or the bolt so that the gun doesn't overcock

@Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L, that makes sense. If that’s the cause, would that be evident even when cocking at a slow speed? Just thinking about how to rule that in or out compared to other possibilities.

[Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L]

It doesn't alway show up when slow cocking and it is very intermittent even at fast cocking, until worn down further, then it will start to show up slow cocking.