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Hunting Season Now Open for New Truck


bgavin

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My 1991 Toyota truck is now at the end-of-trail.

 

Looking into a new Tacoma, I am disappointed to find the lack of a manual transmission, and the advent of the Atkinson complexity V-6.
Too bad Toyota does not import the Hilux into the US anymore.
It is a work truck, compared to the "life style" trucks they sell to American buyers.

 

 

Edited by bgavin
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Hear me out…2023 Jeep Gladiator.  Available in manual and massive discounts right now.  Sticker price is inflated but say a 54,000 optioned out Sport S with max tow and other goodies can go for 38,000.  A lot of money but you get a jeep and a truck :)  lots of deals to be had on these as they can’t move them right now.  
 

lesser trims would be much lower as well

Edited by JD Lud
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My son just bought a Tacoma, automatic 6 cyl. Nice truck! He doesn’t need it for work he’s a musician but he can haul stuff in it, rides like an SUV, smooth!

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If you tell the dealer you want a stick they can get it or tell you where to get it. 
A buddy of mine in SoCal wanted a stick 4x4. He had to wait but he got one after about a month. 
 

If I buy a new truck it will probably be a Toyota. Sick of the other price gouging dealers charging 15-20K over MSRP. 

 

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I decided to get an older Tundra with 200-220 k miles for $7-8000

and rock on for another 100k or two. 
 

Cheap insurance, scratches and dents don’t matter. $30k or more left in my pocket. But I drive company trucks everyday….

 

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I’m looking at getting another Nissan Frontier, my first one had 259,000 miles on it when I sold it and the one that I’m driving now has 200,000+ on it.

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I sold my 2009 Tacoma with a 4 cylinder engine, two wheel drive, funny flip-flop half back doors, and an automatic transmission. It was five years old and had about 36,000 miles on it.  I have kicked myself ever since.

 

It was just a handy little pickup for small trips to the hardware store, shooting range, to haul stuff in, etc.

 

I may go shopping for another one one of these days.

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5 hours ago, JD Lud said:

Hear me out…2023 Jeep Gladiator.  Available in manual and massive discounts right now.  Sticker price is inflated but say a 54,000 optioned out Sport S with max tow and other goodies can go for 38,000.  A lot of money but you get a jeep and a truck :)  lots of deals to be had on these as they can’t move them right now.  
 

lesser trims would be much lower as well

 

As a lifetime Jeep owner and a Toyota owner I can say with 100% confidence that the money spent on Toyota will be money much better spent than the same money spent on a Jeep.

 

And I really like the Jeep Gladiator.

 

 

 

 

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Think 2023 is the last year for a V6 in the Tacoma. 2024 models will have the choice of two 4 cylinder turbo options if that matters to you? Have seen mixed reviews on other models where the only option is a down size engine compared to previous years. Highlander has already transitioned to the turbo 4 and Tundra to the turbo 6. Had the v8 Tundra and have the V6 4Runner, loved them both but they are both gas guzzlers. Guess they decided to down size instead of refining the V6 & V8? 
 

LF 

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It looks like we are talking about compact pickups here, not the 1/2 ton and up...but I throw in my 2 cents.  I test-drove GMC canyon, and decided to go with a full size for comfort and space for the longer trips. I want to get a TT eventually and start going to bigger CAS matches, but I also wanted a reasonable daily driver. V8 was a requirement - I still don't trust turbo V-6 engines with durability, I tend to keep my vehicles for 9-10 years

 

I just finished my truck hunting by buying a 2023 F-150 Lariat with a 5.0 Coyote V8 and trailer tow package. I had a 2007 Tundra 10 years ago and loved that truck, but in 2023, that generation was a bit bare with comfort and too thirsty, and the new ones don't have a V8...

 

I drove a Chevy Silverado 1500 with 5.3L - a bit anemic engine, and though their 6.2L engine is awesome, it is not an economical daily driver. I drove a RAM 1500 with Hemi 5.7 - I loved everything - the power, the ride quality, and comfort, but coming from a 2015 Jeep that spent more time in the shop than not in the last couple of years - I am scared of Chrysler products so F-150 won with a better towing capability and a very nice engine, ride, looks and features  (almost as good as RAM)

Edited by Last Call Saul
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im starting to think on a new truck too , but im not happy at the cost and the choices these days - i really like my 05 youkon and find it hard to look at what the market says is comparable these days , i want a truck - not a glorified car thats labeled an SUV 

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14 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

If you tell the dealer you want a stick they can get it or tell you where to get it. 
A buddy of mine in SoCal wanted a stick 4x4. He had to wait but he got one after about a month. 
 

If I buy a new truck it will probably be a Toyota. Sick of the other price gouging dealers charging 15-20K over MSRP. 

 

My sons new 2023 Tacoma 6cyl 4x4 was 40k, they’re not cheap either !

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If it comes to a fullsized truck, Tundra for me. One hell of a truck.

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15 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

I’m looking at getting another Nissan Frontier, my first one had 259,000 miles on it when I sold it and the one that I’m driving now has 200,000+ on it.

Those are dandy trucks.

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13 hours ago, Long Fingers, SASS#56813 said:

Think 2023 is the last year for a V6 in the Tacoma. 2024 models will have the choice of two 4 cylinder turbo options if that matters to you? Have seen mixed reviews on other models where the only option is a down size engine compared to previous years. Highlander has already transitioned to the turbo 4 and Tundra to the turbo 6. Had the v8 Tundra and have the V6 4Runner, loved them both but they are both gas guzzlers. Guess they decided to down size instead of refining the V6 & V8? 
 

LF 

 What matters to me is that they overwork small engines when they need them to really work. Those EcoBoost transit vans is a prime example. Every fella I know with one complains (and ultimately gets out of them) they use just as much or more fuel than a conventional V8 after they load them down ( and they typically stay that way at 7-9000 lbs). Then they run wide open all the time while a 5.4, 5.7 or 6.0 V8 would just putter along. These dinky little engines are built for mpgs for casual users and have turbos added to overachieve when called to actually work. In a full time work truck, that is a bad recipe for longevity. There's no mass to rely on for torque, just high rpm's.

My work trucks get from 7-8 mpg(medium duty trucks 25-30,000 lbs) to 13-14 mpg ( F250 and E250 7-9,000 lbs). But those are used for work and fuel is a cost of doing business.

My Tundra (06 4.7 v8) 16-17 mpg (I did 21 on a tank once, and on long interstate runs 17-18 seems average).

I can buy a lot of fuel with what I save in payments and insurance. And my trucks still feel, act, ride and perform like a truck. There is nothing modern or luxurious to any of them, aside from auto transmission, AC and power windows, power door locks, and I like it kept to that. A rebuilt engine or tranny swap is not out of the question. I do it on my work trucks.

 

I like the Tacomas , aside from they are too small and cramped. Frontiers, I have the same impression. A conventional V6 or 4 cylinder is enough for the realistic capabilities of a vehicle of their proportions.

Edited by Dirty Dan Dawkins
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1 hour ago, JD Lud said:

Pricing is where gladiator comes in right now with the year end.  Yes, not Toyota perceivable quality but you can take the top off!  Take it to the beach and trails and Home Depot :)

 

Oh God, no! After owning a jeep wrangler for last 9 years - I will never get one as a daily driver! leaks everywhere - two radiators, two rear main seals, one front seal, two oil coolers,  PCM replaced, timing chain tensioners disintegrated and almost killed the engine.  Thanks god I had a powertrain warranty!

 

I will never deal with that crap again! no matter how fun it was

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I was a factory Toyota mechanic back in the 70s, and have owned them ever since.
The 2024 Tacoma promises to be even bigger in size than the 2023.. another negative for me.
 

As to a stick shift, ONLY available on the 4-door models which I refuse to own.
I've owned my 1991 since new, and it doesn't owe me a dime now with 250k miles on it.

The V6 is "Atkinson cycle" but without the complex connecting rod architecture of the 1880s design.
Toyota uses a complex hydraulic scheme in the cam shaft gears to vary cam timing.
To mind mind, this screams "point of failure"
KISS works for me.

 

The 2.7l four cylinder is less complicated, and has the HP/Torque peaks much lower in the rpm range.

I figure I have 12 years left before my end of trail, and this will be the last truck.
It will outlive me if history is any guide.

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2 hours ago, JD Lud said:

Pricing is where gladiator comes in right now with the year end.  Yes, not Toyota perceivable quality but you can take the top off!  Take it to the beach and trails and Home Depot :)

ALL new vehicle pricing needs to drop about 30%.

 

The last time I took my Jeep top off, first time I had done so in 5 years, a cat got in and pissed everywhere. :angry: My top will never come off again.

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Argh!


I put together a spread sheet comparing curb weight, torque and HP.
My 1991 Toyota Truck has better power/weight ratios than the 2023 Tacoma and 4-cylinder engine and mine ain't nothin' to write home about.

The 2023 V6 is the Atkinson Cycle type, also with anemic power specs, but it does beat my 1991 4-cylinder 22RE.
The V6 has the very complex V-V-T-i variable valve timing that simulates the Atkinson Cycle.
The link below is a deep dive into how it works, and the problems it has.

The six-speed automatic is the same type used my my wife's 2016 RAV4.
We keep it in Sport mode to avoid the endless hunting and shifting it does in the default EPA mode.
I can't get the six-speed manual with a 6-foot bed, if one can be found at all.
It is a shame I cannot import a regular Hilux from the non-US market.

It looks like I will shop around for a newer-than-mine version of the compact truck with 22RE engine and manual transmission, but in better condition.

 

 

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19 hours ago, bgavin said:

Argh!


I put together a spread sheet comparing curb weight, torque and HP.
My 1991 Toyota Truck has better power/weight ratios than the 2023 Tacoma and 4-cylinder engine and mine ain't nothin' to write home about.

The 2023 V6 is the Atkinson Cycle type, also with anemic power specs, but it does beat my 1991 4-cylinder 22RE.
The V6 has the very complex V-V-T-i variable valve timing that simulates the Atkinson Cycle.
The link below is a deep dive into how it works, and the problems it has.

The six-speed automatic is the same type used my my wife's 2016 RAV4.
We keep it in Sport mode to avoid the endless hunting and shifting it does in the default EPA mode.
I can't get the six-speed manual with a 6-foot bed, if one can be found at all.
It is a shame I cannot import a regular Hilux from the non-US market.

It looks like I will shop around for a newer-than-mine version of the compact truck with 22RE engine and manual transmission, but in better condition.

 

 

What is sport mode?

kR

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1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Maybe this??

 

image.png.ef39c53192a4664c55d2f4d2da9a693c.png

 

Naw... that's Buck Rogers mode. :D

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On 11/29/2023 at 7:22 PM, Last Call Saul said:

It looks like we are talking about compact pickups here, not the 1/2 ton and up...but I throw in my 2 cents.  I test-drove GMC canyon, and decided to go with a full size for comfort and space for the longer trips. I want to get a TT eventually and start going to bigger CAS matches, but I also wanted a reasonable daily driver. V8 was a requirement - I still don't trust turbo V-6 engines with durability, I tend to keep my vehicles for 9-10 years

 

I just finished my truck hunting by buying a 2023 F-150 Lariat with a 5.0 Coyote V8 and trailer tow package. I had a 2007 Tundra 10 years ago and loved that truck, but in 2023, that generation was a bit bare with comfort and too thirsty, and the new ones don't have a V8...

 

I drove a Chevy Silverado 1500 with 5.3L - a bit anemic engine, and though their 6.2L engine is awesome, it is not an economical daily driver. I drove a RAM 1500 with Hemi 5.7 - I loved everything - the power, the ride quality, and comfort, but coming from a 2015 Jeep that spent more time in the shop than not in the last couple of years - I am scared of Chrysler products so F-150 won with a better towing capability and a very nice engine, ride, looks and features  (almost as good as RAM)

Your going to like that Coyote V8.  I'm an old guy but if I'm not careful, the teenager in me comes out.  

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On 11/30/2023 at 9:00 AM, Dantankerous said:

ALL new vehicle pricing needs to drop about 30%.

 

The last time I took my Jeep top off, first time I had done so in 5 years, a cat got in and pissed everywhere. :angry: My top will never come off again.

Thank God for that!

Oh wait, you were talking about the Jeep!

Never Mind!

Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

you knew someone was gonna say it!

:D  :P  :)

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Bought 5 years ago a used one owner 1998 Ford Ranger with 72000 miles on it. Changed Transmission Fluid and filter, oil and filter change, drained and replaced rear end fluid, new battery, spark plugs and wire (didn't run when I bought it). Now have 186,000 miles on it. No rust, doesn't burn oil 18 MPG. Does everything I need it for, everyday hauling including our jet Skis and monthly matches, etc. Starts every time with hardly a whimper. Satisfied 110%.

Cost

Truck-1700.00

Miscellaneous listed above-450.00.

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Sport Mode is a push button setting that changes the transmission shift points.
In short, it avoids the chronic hunting that automatics do in the gov't-mandated "eco" mode, where they try to keep the RPM as low as possible.

 

Endless shifting plays Hobb with the clutch packs, same as endless clutch cycles do with a manual transmission.
Every time you push the pedal, you engage the throwout bearing, which like all mechanical parts has a finite life span.

 

The other annoying part of hunting automatics is the big lag between punching the throttle and getting a response.
My wifes RAV4 (same transmission as Tacoma) takes a huge big breath, almost like a turbo winding up, then shifts down 2+ gears before it moves.
As a stickshift driver, I find this tremendously annoying.

The current Toyota 3.5l has the VVT-i variable valve timing and is massively complicated.
The video above points out that it requires pristine oil so it doesn't clog up then grenade the engine.

 

[ edit ]

 

It appears I can get what I want (6-sp manual, 6-foot bed) but only in 4WD.
This will be occasionally useful for me, and something I can deal with to get the two features I really want.
Now, the trick will be finding the M/T model, as they are scarce.
 

Edited by bgavin
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Trying to find what I wanted, I called Roseville, Folsom, Citrus Heights, Reno, Boise, Salt Lake City, El Monte and finally Fresno.
This morning, we start the long drive to Fresno to get the new truck.

The manual transmission model is as scarce as a sensible Democrat.
To get the M/T I should have ordered the truck in mid-2023 and waited for it to be assembled to my specs.

As it turned out, I have to get the 6 speed automatic as it is the only game, anywhere.
This is the very sturdy Aisin-Warner (owned by Toyota) AC60F for the 4WD model.

I got the 3.5L V6 in spite of the VVT-i cam timing complexity, because the 4 cylinder is woefully under powered.
All I have to do is religious oil changes in both V6 and tranny, and I'm good for the long haul.

I got the SR (lowest) trim level, meaning without all the "lifestyle" crap and fluff built into the higher trim levels.
Access Cab (2 door), 6 foot bed, and my desired Ice Cap white standard paint color (no pearls).

The dealer said they don't take earnest money deposits, so I should get my butt down there with a cashier's check, or it will be sold to their sister dealership across the street.  I told the money guy if I drive 6+ hours and he sells to somebody else, we will go around and around and wind up in small claims court.


My bride is making well known her displeasure with this long drive.

She is not a morning person, and has a healthy dislike for driving on major truck routes.

Once I get it home, I have to move my utility trailer, so I can hide the truck behind our side yard gate.
This, to avoid having the catalytics stolen by the cat thieves and break-in artists that work the neighborhood.
This would be a perfect time to try out my brand new 45 ACP, except I can't drive the new truck from a prison cell.

 

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Good luck with the new truck.

 

It's dealer games like you mention that keep me from ever buying from a dealer.

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3 minutes ago, Dantankerous said:

Good luck with the new truck.

 

It's dealer games like you mention that keep me from ever buying from a dealer.

Just curious, So you buy from private owners? That can be worse!!:o

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Just now, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Just curious, So you buy from private owners? That can be worse!!:o

I figger ya take your chance either way. I've know too many folks who've been screwed by dealers over warranty issues that should have been covered. At least with a used private sale I know the risk I'm taking and I don't have to worry about needing to argue with a scumbag dealer (and in my area they are scumbags) over a mechanical problem.

 

Plus, buying used I avoid the initial huge depreciation and sales tax hit. I've never had a used car repair bill that ever got close to the cumulative cost of years worth of payments on a new car.

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28 minutes ago, Dantankerous said:

I figger ya take your chance either way. I've know too many folks who've been screwed by dealers over warranty issues that should have been covered. At least with a used private sale I know the risk I'm taking and I don't have to worry about needing to argue with a scumbag dealer (and in my area they are scumbags) over a mechanical problem.

 

Plus, buying used I avoid the initial huge depreciation and sales tax hit. I've never had a used car repair bill that ever got close to the cumulative cost of years worth of payments on a new car.

Well I can trade in my old one to a dealer and do some haggling and get a pretty good deal and a warranty.. I've had a few weird deals in the past with private owners. Buyer beware. When you buy as is it can be a nightmare! 

My last 4 cars have been new. I trade 'em in at around 100K. 

Edited by Rye Miles #13621
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2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Well I can trade in my old one to a dealer and do some haggling and get a pretty good deal and a warranty.. I've had a few weird deals in the past with private owners. Buyer beware. When you buy as is it can be a nightmare! 

My last 4 cars have been new. I trade 'em in at around 100K. 

 

Perhaps I'm just jaded but I'll trust an individual more than I'll trust a dealership. The only thing a dealership can be trusted for is to give you a screwing you know is coming but you're not sure how.

 

 I hate shopping for cars every which way possible no matter what though.

 

 

Edited by Dantankerous
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