So...what the he$* is Wilder Bunch Shooting????

[Griff]

IMO and the opinion of others, the higher PFs and longer target distances were a pair of the great things about WBAS.  Why the need for every target to be within spitting distance?  Why the desire for all out speed to the point almost excluding accuracy as an element?  I get that those things are quite popular, and it doesn't diminish my enjoyment of CAS like it might others.  If it doesn't fit your style, don't play.  Not everything about CAS is enjoyable to me.  I absolutely love the firearms needed for Frontiersman, but equally loathe shooting duelist.  In 1988 when SASS eliminated the BP category and replaced it with Frontier Cartridge, I shot that category with loads that very nearly approximated my duty ammo.  I can do that in WBAS, or Wilder Bunch... Would that SASS had relaxed the rules sooner... but sometimes one needs to simply say, too little, too late.  You are certainly entitled to your opinion about what constitutes a "strawman."  But, I happen to think that being allowed to start in Condition 1 and shooting on the move are significant changes.  Why the venemonous reaction to couple of changes to a game that you don't play?

 

"Wilder Bunch" is not a reaction to the changes in WBAS, but rather, something that was being developed and implemented months before.  The allowing of Condition 1 & shooting on the move, as well as inclusion of Lugers (9mm) and 1917 (.38) was well before the announcement by SASS of their changes.  Speed in this game is far more dependent on the ability to transition from target to target and from firearm to firearm, than simply manipulating a SA or levergun.  Even as slow as some seem to think I am, I can shoot my SAs faster than my 1911... The 1911 has a self-regulating speed of operation, small differences are possible with spring & load changes, but not significantly so.  I can hope that we can agree to disagree.

 

Additionally, a few of the Texas Doughboys still compete in WBAS matches when/where held.  Whether they still feel welcome after this thread is questionable.  

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

3 minutes ago, Griff said:

Why the venemonous reaction to couple of changes to a game that you don't play?

Dang...you sure don't like folks thinking differently than you..."venemonous" (sic)????

 

4 minutes ago, Griff said:

"Wilder Bunch" is not a reaction to the changes in WBAS, but rather, something that was being developed and implemented months before.

So confident that these changes / additions would not be possible to implement that they decided to go their own way...okay...gotcha. Or, did they decide to go their own way because of the new proposed changes?

 

I think the latter.

5 minutes ago, Griff said:

Additionally, a few of the Texas Doughboys still compete in WBAS matches when/where held.  Whether they still feel welcome after this thread is questionable.  

Well that would be dang childish...but...perhaps you are right.

 

Their tag line about 100%...speaks volumes. 

 

And throwing out the old "so fast and so big that you don't need sights" also speaks volumes.

 

Phantom

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

I like it. 

 

Remember when you sell "Wilder Bunch" make sure to emphasize its main selling points.

 

The biggest turn off to attracting shooters to CAS is the dress up component.

The biggest turn off to attracting shooters to Modern Three Gun is tactical operator attitudes.

 

Now theres a shooting game that offers the opportunity to act superior and dress funny?

 

Like putting peanut butter on pizza - I don't see any way this fails.

[Griff]

3 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Dang...you sure don't like folks thinking differently than you..."venemonous" (sic)????

 

So confident that these changes / additions would not be possible to implement that they decided to go their own way...okay...gotcha. Or, did they decide to go their own way because of the new proposed changes?

 

I think the latter.

Well that would be dang childish...but...perhaps you are right.

 

Their tag line about 100%...speaks volumes. 

 

And throwing out the old "so fast and so big that you don't need sights" also speaks volumes.

 

Phantom

Well... maybe vehemence or strident would have been better words?  (Why didn't spell checker catch that)?  And folks that think differently are often a challenge... and source of change... 

 

Good question.  One I don't know the answer to.  Nor does it matter to me.  I like shooting with these guys... and their game is fun, whether I'm good at it or not.  

 

And the old "so fast and so big you don't need sights" is the most oft reason I've heard of why many of the early shooters no longer shoot CAS.  So, while decidedly unpopular, it might nonetheless have some validity.   Might be why I like the SASS long range events best.  

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

2 minutes ago, Griff said:

Good question.  One I don't know the answer to.  Nor does it matter to me.  I like shooting with these guys... and their game is fun, whether I'm good at it or not. 

This points to your bias...and yet my thoughts and opinions are "vehemence or strident"...

 

3 minutes ago, Griff said:

And the old "so fast and so big you don't need sights" is the most oft reason I've heard of why many of the early shooters no longer shoot CAS.

Yeah...old age and just "over" it wouldn't have anything to do with them not shooting CAS any longer. But, it's easier for them to believe that it's not really their decision...that's it the "Games" decision for them not playing any longer.

 

I'm sure they'd love to get back into the game if only the PF was higher and the targets farther out...so that they can hurt their arthritic wrist and miss a lot. SOOOO much fun!!!!

 

Phantom

[Griff]

6 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

This points to your bias...and yet my thoughts and opinions are "vehemence or strident"...

 

Yeah...old age and just "over" it wouldn't have anything to do with them not shooting CAS any longer. But, it's easier for them to believe that it's not really their decision...that's it the "Games" decision for them not playing any longer.

 

I'm sure they'd love to get back into the game if only the PF was higher and the targets farther out...so that they can hurt their arthritic wrist and miss a lot. SOOOO much fun!!!!

 

Phantom

The fact that we both have a "bias", should be obvious.  Doesn't make either of us right or wrong, just of a different mindset.  Which is probably "right" for both of us.  What others find enjoyable is not my primary concern, nor does it really affect how I play either game.  I fail to understand why others expect me to accept their opinion as the sole way to enjoy either game.  Can you see that it just might be possible to enjoy CAS, WBAS and Wilder Bunch, each in their own right?  Or 3-Gun, W3G, or the whole host of other shooting games?  Not everyone needs to enjoy them all, but that which they enjoy is their choice.  And that they should be allowed that choice?

[Ranger Dan]

Interesting turn of events for the WBAS saga. Ever since starting WBAS several years ago I noticed there were 2 factions in WBAS. One wanted to go more W3G/tactical, the other more Cowboy friendly. Seems SASS went with the Cowboys and I support their decision. I wish all the luck and success to the Texas Doughboys, I hope "Wilder Bunch" works out for you, although I think W3G is the appropriate name for what ya"ll got going on. If I'm ever down your way, I'll probably shoot with you. Unlike some I can adapt and draw from condition 1 or 3.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

The fact that we both have a "bias", should be obvious.

Yes, but my bias doesn't have anything to do with the folks that run the club...I don't really know them. So my bias is centered around having a game that is enjoyable for more that a very small segment of the shooting population.

 

1 hour ago, Griff said:

  I fail to understand why others expect me to accept their opinion as the sole way to enjoy either game.

Where has someone done this? I don't see...remember...anyone saying you must enjoy the game that I enjoy.

 

1 hour ago, Griff said:

Can you see that it just might be possible to enjoy CAS, WBAS and Wilder Bunch, each in their own right?

Again, Strawman. This whole discussion is not about enjoying different games.

 

Phantom

5 minutes ago, Ranger Dan said:

I think W3G is the appropriate name for what ya"ll got going on

Sorry, but W3G is (hopefully), still owned by the good folks that started it...Western 3 Gun.

 

Phantom

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

1 hour ago, Ranger Dan said:

 I think W3G is the appropriate name for what ya"ll got going on.

As Phantom points out W3G is already a thing. 

And personally I've never considered anything about Wild Bunch as Western; not the movie, not the SASS game and especially not some version of Wild Bunch apparently fueled by Brawndo - the Thirst Mutilator.

 

If they want to create their own game - go do it.  Without the coat tails of SASS and without infringing on the existing intellectual property and framework of Wild Bunch.

 

How about 3G WW1?

 

Doughboy

not to be confused with Pillsbury but that will accurately describe the physical appearance of most (this would apply to Cowboys too {myself included} so don't get too worked up). 

 

Era 1917 Action Shooting

not to be confused with Era 1923 where you're required to get yelled at by a really old Indiana Jones

 

World War Action Matches (WWAM)

not to be confused with a gospel station out of Jasper TN.

 

War Hero Action Military Matches of Yesteryear (WHAMMY)

not to be confused with the burger restaurant in Falling Down

 

Old Guns - With Aiming Required (OG-WAR)

 

Let me know - Ill be here all week; try the veal and tip your waitresses.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

26 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

As Phantom points out W3G is already a thing. 

And personally I've never considered anything about Wild Bunch as Western; not the movie, not the SASS game and especially not some version of Wild Bunch apparently fueled by Brawndo - the Thirst Mutilator.

 

If they want to create their own game - go do it.  Without the coat tails of SASS and without infringing on the existing intellectual property and framework of Wild Bunch.

 

How about 3G WW1?

 

Doughboy

not to be confused with Pillsbury but that will accurately describe the physical appearance of most (this would apply to Cowboys too {myself included} so don't get too worked up). 

 

Era 1917 Action Shooting

not to be confused with Era 1923 where you're required to get yelled at by a really old Indiana Jones

 

World War Action Matches (WWAM)

not to be confused with a gospel station out of Jasper TN.

 

War Hero Action Military Matches of Yesteryear (WHAMMY)

not to be confused with the burger restaurant in Falling Down

 

Old Guns - With Aiming Required (OG-WAR)

 

Let me know - Ill be here all week; try the veal and tip your waitresses.

This post belongs in the Wire Hall Of Fame...

 

[Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728]

Hmmm....let me see.  A bunch of folks who love getting dressed up and playing with firearms from the 1800's, ie. CAS, now want to introduce instead of a  single action revolver to a 1911 semi auto pistol in matches and want to call it "Wild Bunch" based on a 1969 great movie. 

Sounds like fun.  But when you deviate from what the CAS folks thought would be FUN, then many folks walked away from it. 

Don't see Wild Bunch moving forward until matches are like CAS matches.

[The Spaniard]

Wilder Bunch is practical shooting like any other practical shooting sports IDPA, USPSA , IPSC, PCSL which have grown over the years that you see 70 shooters showing up in any club match. I shoot IDPA , USPSA  and PCSL along with Wilder Bunch in our club in Bowie and that has made me a better shooter. In our stages we move and shoot targets , do transitions similar to a practical 3 gun match. 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, The Spaniard said:

Wilder Bunch is practical shooting like any other practical shooting sports IDPA, USPSA , IPSC, PCSL which have grown over the years that you see 70 shooters showing up in any club match. I shoot IDPA , USPSA  and PCSL along with Wilder Bunch in our club in Bowie and that has made me a better shooter. In our stages we move and shoot targets , do transitions similar to a practical 3 gun match. 

Then name it something else and stop riding coattails.

 

Good luck getting younger folks to buy into dressing up and shooting the guns of...well...whatever your game is.

 

And you may not know this, but the purpose of SASS/CAS is not to make members better shooters. The purpose of SASS/CAS is to offer entertainment to it's membership.

 

Phantom

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

I think that the "purpose" of all the various action shooting sports is to offer a test of the shooters ability that day.  They aren't teaching you to be better unless you seek out on your own training from better shooters. If you shoot any of the games regulary you have a good chance of and least becoming a little better shooter because you are shooting regularly. All of the games are a mixture of fun/entertainment and competition at different points along that spectrum. SASS does lean more towards the  fun side overall but the majority of shooters in the other games are also mostly having fun vs being seriously competitive.

[The Spaniard]

2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Then name it something else and stop riding coattails.

 

Good luck getting younger folks to buy into dressing up and shooting the guns of...well...whatever your game is.

 

And you may not know this, but the purpose of SASS/CAS is not to make members better shooters. The purpose of SASS/CAS is to offer entertainment to it's membership.

 

Phantom

Ha ha I am pretty young and I also shoot CAS and love all of them

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

18 minutes ago, The Spaniard said:

Ha ha I am pretty young and I also shoot CAS and love all of them

Wow...just can't argue with this...you must be in Marketing.

 

But would have been nice if your semi-retort was more to the point.

 

Phantom

[The Spaniard]

No sir I am not in Marketing , I am a just a modern day gunslinger  who likes to shoot single action revolvers , 1911 , pocket pistols like Colt 1908, Sharps rifle , a Spencer carbine , a lever action gun in pistol and rifle caliber , a M1 Garand, a 03-A3 , a M1 carbine , a 1887 , 1897 and double barrel shotgun and then an optics ready PCC , a Compensated 9mm 2011 , a Semi Automatic shotgun , AR15 , AK 47 and many others which is why I try to participate in all different kind of action matches and appreciate what they bring to the table and thankful for getting the opportunity of doing so in my local clubs in North Texas.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

41 minutes ago, The Spaniard said:

and appreciate what they bring to the table

What "They" have brought is a losing product. A product that SASS WBAS is trying to make into a winner.

 

And "They" brought this losing product to the market on the Shirttails of SASS.

 

A lot to be proud of...

 

Phantom

["Big Boston"]

On 11/17/2023 at 6:09 PM, Silver Sam, SASS #34718L said:

Never heard of it.... But I do know what Mild Bunch Shooting is And It's Fun!

 

here are the Loosey Goosey Rules.........

 

Lone Star Frontier Shooting Club

Comanche Valley Vigilantes

New Category for CAS Monthly Matches only

category name: PIKE

The ONLY difference is instead of 2 Revolvers the shooter carries

One 1911 Pistol

in any caliber
and at least two magazines with 5 rounds each

The match is shot and scored exactly the same as written for CAS There is no change in how both Rifle and Shotgun are loaded and shot

**All 1911 magazines loaded with a maximum of 5 rounds each**

START: Magazine loaded, slide closed with Hammer down on Empty Chamber. Pistol holstered or staged, per stage instructions

FINISH: Slide locked back, pistol open and empty
or Slide forward with Hammer down on Empty Chamber then re-holster or stage

Lead bullets only, per SASS Rules All Safety Rules still apply.

** In the case of an “On The Clock” pistol reload,
Shooter must have a magazine ready loaded with only One Round

This is not Wild Bunch.... It is Cowboy Action with a 1911

This category is not intended to replace Wild Bunch. It is for fun only.

If you’re interested in starting a Wild Bunch group at LSFSC or CVV please feel free to bring it up to one of the Club Officers

 

 

 

preview0.pdf 32.88 kB · 15 downloads

 

Almost exactly what we've done at the club I shoot at. Our group is small, this lets the shooters with a 1911 the chance to shoot with the rest of the cowboys. I enjoy it.

 

BB