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WBAS Rule changes


Captain Bill Burt

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10 hours ago, Itchy Trigger said:


Maybe not, but it just devalued my codized 45ACP rifle. Don’t really care, but I have heard others complaining about their “investments”.

 

Rules that need to be changed IMO to make it more popular.

 

-) Start in condition 1

The only reason there is not a loaded round in the chamber of a 1911 in SASS WB is because historically SA revolvers were unsafe if dropped with a live shell under the hammer. That is not true of the 1911, and as a TO I would feel far safer seeing a 1911 fall than a SA!

 

-) 9mm 1911’s.
Most people that already own a 1911 have one or more in 9mm. Some I know love shooting 9’s but hate the 45. Don’t care if you do or do not have a “mild” and “wild”/+p categories.  This is prob. more important than decreasing the rifle caliber.

 

 

Sorry to hear about your devalued rifle. Fortunately I don’t buy competition or EDC guns as investments, although I do try to get the best deals and I do track values.

 

As others have said, I think it’s a big assumption on your part regarding 9 mm 1911 ownership. I own several 1911s, none of which are chambered in 9. I have no issue with 9s, I own several, but I’m not interested in 1911s in that caliber.

6 hours ago, Griff said:

I've shot cowboy with a .45 rifle since 1987, and the recoil difference between it and a .38 is miniscule, but, in terms of time, yes, recoil impulse is slower, takes longer to absorb, but in terms of felt recoil... unless you're leaning against a wall, you can (probably) hardly tell the difference in felt recoil.  If your .38 loads are near the minimum PF for cowboy, you might notice a difference, but, if you're using a 105 or 125 bullet at >650 fps, not likely.  A PF of 150 wasn't that much greater than my CAS loads... so, to simplify my reloading, all my 45 Colt ammo for shooting either CAS or WB is the same.  I'm using a 200 grain RFN loaded to run slightly above 800fps.  Back when I first shot WB, I built a Marlin 1984 to shoot the C45S cartridge and while it's easier to load for a PF of 150, (less volume so higher load density), once I short stroked the '73 it didn't offer a real advantage over the '73 in 45 Colt.  And the C45S in the '73, isn't that distinctly different than an equivalent loading in the 45 Colt.  (Just easier to attain without an issue of powder position).

 

The game of Wild Bunch is geared (centered) on the 1911 in 45ACP.  And if one likes shooting that particular gun and round, the other aspects of WB are meaningless.  And, FWIW, other barrel lengths for the 1911 didn't begin to show up until well after WWII.  So, using my EDC Commander would present an visual anachronism.  A Colt New Frontier or Ruger Blackhawk present much the same visual, IMO in regards to CAS.

 

As for other autoloaders of the pre-WWI period, I'd bet to say that fewer than 5% of potential ROs for WB would be able to tell you the specific manual-of-arms for a Broomhandle & it's safety features.  Maybe even a Luger.  That presents a problem in "safely conducting the shooter thru the course of fire."    And since local MDs are (and always have) the freedom to be more inclusive than SASS sanctioned matches, it's kinda like beatin' a dead horse.  It ain't very likely it'll happen, even long term.  Rank points stands a better chance of returning.   

 

Both games are fun, distinctly different with the change to a 7-round magazine previously approved for WB definitely made it not "cowboy with a 1911", because, when it was first trotted out, that is exactly what it felt like.  The latest changes open the door for more folks to at least give it a try.   Anyway, ain't not owning a 1911 sorta like not owning a .30-30... un-American! :P

Thank you Griff. This is what I suspected, negligible difference in running .45 vs .38 special out of an 1873. I guesstimate I’m running around 100 PF with my rifle, I’ve never been one to chase speed with marginal loads and special ‘knockdown’ loads. I load a few tenths above the low end so I don’t have to worry about PF or knockdowns.

 

I think @Creeker, SASS #43022 is correct, most complaints we’re hearing have nothing to do with competitiveness of one chambering over the other.

 

When I was in the Navy I did pretty well with the old 1911s we had on the boat. I look forward to shooting mine more often now.

 

I was pleasantly surprised to discover a couple of boxes of .45 ACP in the back of the closet. I’ve loaded those and now have an ammo can of .45 ready to shoot.

Edited by Captain Bill Burt
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1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Yadda yadda some other stuff......

I was pleasantly surprised to discover a couple of boxes of .45 ACP in the back of the closet. I’ve loaded those and now have an ammo can of .45 ready to shoot.

I sure you remembered to load the "automagic ding" in with those newly found 45 acp bullets, it helps the spotters out a good bit! :lol:

 

Kajun

Edited by Krazy Kajun
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View from a WB shooter, match director, former WB Ambassador/RO instructor. Gold Country Wild Bunch (GCWB) is the oldest, standalone WB club in SASS. Sutter Lawman started the club with the inception of Wild Bunch moving from side match to a shooting game.

 

A lot has happened in the last 8 months regarding WB’s direction that will never see the light of day, much of the irritation from WB folks is due to those circumstances. I won’t be going into details. Despite my feelings on the new changes, I love SASS and its shooters. This is my 22nd year in SASS, I’ve enjoyed it immensely. My wife and I have met lifelong friends while shooting SASS in various areas of the country, and we will continue to meet more.

 

Regarding the “Open” category many clubs such as GCWB have always allowed folks to shoot whatever guns they would like. The intention was to bring what you have and try the game out, if you like it move towards buying the correct equipment as you continue to shoot open. Speaking of GCWB, the open category has brought in two shooters over the years. Typically, it’s used by avid WB shooters saving components or wanting to shoot something different. From my experience the open category will not grow the sport.

 

Regarding the rifle, 38 vs .40 caliber, there’s a few reasons the .38 rifle is the most popular rifle in SASS, one it’s less expensive to reload, two it is faster to shoot. Yes, it can be argued that some can run it as fast, but under Wild bunch power factor rules it’s not likely it will compete head-to-head on speed with a 38. What do you say to the shooter who went out and bought the correct equipment and has been a die-hard WB shooter? Buy a 38?

It's my belief the market is going to become saturated with .40 caliber and larger rifles. It’s true many shoot them within SASS, but Classic Cowboy is the only category requiring it. If I’m correct, that’s a disservice to those SASS members who for 12 years played the game the way it was written, and will have difficulties selling off their rifles.

 

The financial report, I do not buy the numbers. I’ll mention two items that have me baffled in the financial report, sanctioning fees(losses on awards), and RO instruction losses. Here’s the wording on the WB Championship Application:

image.png.869124646ed67b8555fed4ed2cb67cc7.png

Here’s what SASS supplies for the fees rendered.

image.png.7412ae52ee87876ee6c40ddf6bbf5e6d.png

SASS provides 4 conchos, Modern, Traditional, Lady Modern, Lady Traditional, this is a $200 value. And $200 in gift certificates. In the past a shooter could use the certificate to renew their SASS membership. This is a total of $400 provided by SASS. Using simple math, if a club only has 20 shooters, they owe SASS $100. This is a big loss for SASS. Is that loss caused by WB or SASS? It’s SASS’s fee structure causing the loss, fix that, don’t give conchos, and certificates or increase the fees accordingly. Yet WB gets the blame.

 

Regarding losses from RO courses. Beyond RO pins, SASS has never provided me with materials for an RO course. I know SASS will print SHB and send them to the requesting instructor. Most clubs ask the students to print the SHB and bring it with them to class.  If SASS is losing money by printing and mailing SHB’s, who’s to blame for the lost money? By the way the same process is followed by cowboy RO classes, it would make sense that SASS loses money on mailing and printing SHB's for Cowboy as well.

 

Speaking for myself, I love the game as we play it currently. Gold Country Wild Bunch has taken a poll of its shooters, the majority prefer to continue shooting under the current rules. At GCWB we’ll listen to our shooters. Apparently, SASS polled folks on the direction of WB, yet not one WB Ambassador, ROC member or WB shooter I’ve spoken to was polled.

 

Match Directors, be it Cowboy, WB, IDPA, whatever the shooting sport, we do it because we love it, we do it for our members, because without us, matches don’t happen. We don’t do it for SASS, we are not SASS’s revenue system. If something sours us on the game, interest is lost, matches are lost, clubs are lost. Again, I can only speak for myself, I’m not going to dedicate my time and money to run a club by rules I disagree with. Anyone involved in running Cowboy, WB matches isn't making money on it, most are in the hole each month. Take a moment at the next match you attend and thank those folks for their dedication to the sport, and you the shooter.

 

This is not an apple-to-apple compression, take Classic Cowboy or B Western, heck even Plainsman side match. Go to those individuals and tell them they can shoot what they want, dress how they like, and we understand the BP smoke obscures the targets, from now on you can shoot smokeless in Plainsman. I’m being sarcastic, however if you shoot those categories or enjoy Plainsman, how would you take that discussion?

 

I’m following the post, I’ll most likely not make another post though.

 

Respectfully,

Tully Mars, 40161

GCWB President

 

 

Edited by Tully Mars
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14 hours ago, Desert Pete SASS #42168 said:

I shoot a steel challenge type event.  It is typically eight stages, shooting a minimum of 25 rounds per stage.  Distances range from ten yards to 40 yards.  I don’t claim to have any special insights into the “market” but this event typically draws four times the number of shooters as our local CAS match.  
 

I do have a couple of thoughts as to why this is the case:  just about any pistol caliber or rimfire cartridge is legal;  just about any handgun or rimfire long gun is legal;  handguns are drawn from the holster but if you don’t have one just yet you still can shoot;  kids welcome;  no stages to reset; generally, no transitions.  People like to just show up and shoot and then head out for a burger.

Jacketed, Plated, off the shelf ammo. Shorts and T-shirt.

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19 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I can see the economic advantage of .38 special it’s just hard for me to imagine significant recoil out of a cartridge originally designed for a 2 pound revolver but now being shot out of a 7+ pound rifle.  A 200 grain bullet, at 750 fps out of a 7+ pound rifle doesn’t sound bad at all. I just watched a few videos of Randi R. and others shooting WB and I don’t see any muzzle lift on the rifles. 

I have to admit it never occurred to me that existing WB members would object to competing against .38 special rifles. 9mm pistols yeah, I can see the objection. Luckily given the competitive differences you mentioned I suspect most WB shooters already own .38 special rifles so they can be competitive in CAS.

 

I’m curious now. Hopefully I’ll cross paths with a Classic Cowboy who will let me try his rifle out.

I shoot 44-40 in CC. Same 44-40 in WB. My wife shoots 38s in CAS Ladies Senior, and my backup 44-40 in WB. Recoil is really no difference. The longer distance to targets is what will slow you down, ya gotta aim. I see no advantage to using a 38 rifle in WB and if my wife wants to use her 38, that's fine. I could start using her backup 38, but no I'll stick with the 44-40.

 

The advantage of 38s (my opinion) is the reduced recoil in the PISTOLS not the rifle and the bigger issue of reduced cost of shooting as well as same caliber for rifle and pistol.

 

I know lots of CAS shooters that shoot 45 Colt not in CC, but because its historically the caliber in the Colt pistols, kinda like why I shoot 44-40, it's the original caliber chambered for both the 1873 rifle and Colt Pistol. They don't shoot CC because of the the hammered double requirement.

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MY WORTHLESS 2 CENTS;  During the height of the primer shortage a while back, I posted a hypothetical here about using 9mm 1911’s. That is when I first became aware my parents were not married. Conversely, I understand there are many opinions and emotions do range high, especially around changes. The bottom line is I like to shoot. I have folks in the club leadership whom I trust and support their judgement. I know that whatever decision they make going forward will be in the best interest of the thing we all love to do. Let them do what they were elected to do.

I did try to discuss WB changes with my two little dogs but they were only focused over why changing the clocks had any impact on feeding time. They did not buy what I was selling.

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12 minutes ago, Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 said:

And when would any MD in CAS or WBAS allow stages to be written with rifle is last?

Thought we solved this problem in the 20th century!!!!!!

Many of the people who shoot WB in the 21st century write stages with rifle last. With 150 PF no problem picking up the bang of the rifle. 
Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

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37 minutes ago, Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 said:

And when would any MD in CAS or WBAS allow stages to be written with rifle is last?

Thought we solved this problem in the 20th century!!!!!!

 

Unless its a shared bay with another posse, the TO should be watching the timer and adjusting distance if the timer is not picking up shots. Regardless which gun is shot last. 

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Unless blocked by a building/prop, I’ve not seen much problem with timer picking up rifle shots. 
I frequently glance at shot counter just to see how many shots registered. The VAST majority of the time it’s 24. (Assuming a 10-10-4+ stage)

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Personally, I don’t care one way or the other about 38 rifles being allowed.

I disagree strongly with removal of the power factor for rifles. It’s just not that hard to make 150 with a 38. A 158 grain bullet ( easily available ) at 1000 fps gives a 158 power factor.

ymmv

Two Dot

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I agree with Two Dot about the power factor.  I really don’t care about the rule changes for equipment.  The biggest factor is having a match director set stages so they are fun for everyone. If you make it frustrating for the bottom half of your shooters they probably won’t return. Some understand this and some don’t

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The rifle problem can be lessened. The rifle in WB has been de-emphasized and was almost done away with. Most major matches today average 6 rounds per stage. Make it even less, 4 or 5 rounds average? Use heavy knockdowns to make sure wimpy loads won't knock them down. Match directors do have options.

I argued for keeping the rifle a couple years ago. Maybe it is time to do away with it.

JFN

Edited by J. Frank Norfleet
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Actually, all kidding aside, maybe a more "viable" solution is this:  Wild Bunch is what it is.  And it is to an extent, popular,  Just leave it alone and if there is a call for a side match or a "special event" that uses different stuff from the normal Wild Bunch one, then create it and see what happens.   This would actually not be all that hard.  If a whole buncha pards in an area are calling for it, they can make it happen.  Maybe...  I dunno...

I'm starting to overthink all of this.   Somebody pass me a Moxie.

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I have been shooting Wild Bunch for a few years and overall enjoy it. I would have liked to see that 38 rifles would require a reasonable power factor. It would have been easy to load some 158 grain bullets to address that. I also would have been happy if they would have left the traditional class alone and require this class or use a forty caliber rifle. Similar to what classic cowboy is to SASS but without the costume requirements.

I have shot in several matches over the years some have been great fun, some have been a frustration to shoot. Two years ago at Winter Range Serenity designed hat I thought was a great match. Most stages required around 21 to 28 handgun. All the targets were of reasonable size and distance. One stage had 35 knock down, you could use the rifle or all handgun. At the start all on my posse were apprehensive. After we completed the stage we all wanted to shoot it again as it was fun. 
 

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I really enjoy shooting wild bunch and probably get into it as much as I do shooting cowboy action.  I have invested in tuned guns and like the rules in place.  I can also see that another set of guns is a barrier to entry for some folks but I also have seen if people want to do something bad enough they will find a way to do it.  

I think there is a solution that would keep the existing wild bunch shooters happy and be more user friendly to new shooters coming over from cowboy and think that would be to allow any sass legal rifle, shotgun, and any 1911 style pistol but they shoot in a separate class from the traditional and modern shooters, call it an open class, heck, call it a cheaters class if you want. 

  Let the modern and traditional classes keep the rifle power factor and other requirements they have always had.  At the end of the day you are giving out an extra couple of ribbons for another class and getting more shooters involved in wild bunch.  All this fighting amongst ourselves just turns people off who just want to shoot and don't want the drama. 

I can definitely see the side of the wild bunch shooters who have invested the money to get the required guns and spent the time practicing with those guns at the required power factor to be competitive are feeling slighted by relaxing the rules.  I liken this to if you did the same rule changes for classic cowboy. 

I don't know how much wild bunch participation you are going to gain by changing the rules, I think maybe a few will try it but you are never going to make everyone happy.  There are probably other factors that discourage shooters from wild bunch that maybe they are too proud to admit so they blame the rifle or shotgun requirement as an easy out. 

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My first reaction to this was pretty positive. Enough so for me to load up some .45.

 

But, the more I read reactions from current WB shooters the more I get the feeling that folks with .38 special rifles aren’t going to be welcomed. 
 

Some clubs aren’t going to allow .38 special despite the rule change.

 

Some clubs will set KDs so high .38 special won’t take them down.

 

Some want a special ‘cheaters’ category…that will definitely make new shooters feel welcome.

 

It’s the ‘I’m here to have fun’ group against the ‘gamers’ all over again.

 

That got old a decade ago.

 

I’m definitely rethinking this. I have no desire to shoot in a match where I’m made to feel unwelcome simply because I’m shooting .38 special in my rifle. 
 

Y’all keep your game, I’ve changed my mind.

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8 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

My first reaction to this was pretty positive. Enough so for me to load up some .45.

 

But, the more I read reactions from current WB shooters the more I get the feeling that folks with .38 special rifles aren’t going to be welcomed. 
 

Some clubs aren’t going to allow .38 special despite the rule change.

 

Some clubs will set KDs so high .38 special won’t take them down.

 

Some want a special ‘cheaters’ category…that will definitely make new shooters feel welcome.

 

It’s the ‘I’m here to have fun’ group against the ‘gamers’ all over again.

 

That got old a decade ago.

 

I’m definitely rethinking this. I have no desire to shoot in a match where I’m made to feel unwelcome simply because I’m shooting .38 special in my rifle. 
 

Y’all keep your game, I’ve changed my mind.

Same here.

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I can’t speak for others but you are welcome to shoot your 38 rifles and join the fun. I don’t see anything wrong or or certainly unwelcoming to the shoot when I express my feeling about using  a heavy bullet in the 38. Shoot what you have and have fun. Yul Lose , I have met you a few times at EOT and have no doubt that you would add to the fun and entertainment of the match.

load them up and let’s go!

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From the stand point of running matches, I've had many people over the years say, "if only they allowed 38's, if only they allowed 9 mm), I'd come out. When they are told to come out and shoot what they have, they find another excuse.  If you truly want to shoot, talk to your local match director, if they won't let you shoot at monthly's I'd be surprised. Folks running WB matches want you to come shoot, the shooters want you to come shoot.

 

Regarding the rifle, if the PF remained, it would be a non-issue.  Thanks Two Dot, JFN,  and Marshal Fire,  for bringing that point up.

Tully

 

 

 

 

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At one of the local matches I attend we have a lady who shoots a 9mm double action semiautomatic. With medical issues she finds the 45 too much to handle but shoots the 9mm safely. We all have fun and she can participate. 

 

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22 minutes ago, Marshal Fire, SASS 10064 said:

I can’t speak for others but you are welcome to shoot your 38 rifles and join the fun. I don’t see anything wrong or or certainly unwelcoming to the shoot when I express my feeling about using  a heavy bullet in the 38. Shoot what you have and have fun. Yul Lose , I have met you a few times at EOT and have no doubt that you would add to the fun and entertainment of the match.

load them up and let’s go!

Thank you Marshal. I appreciate the invitation.

 

I think I'll leave this discussion.  It's gone in an unexpected direction. 

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I'm going to assume any negative comments about 38 shooters starting to shoot WB are made by people that are either no longer active WB shooters or not super fast shooters anyways.  Much like the SASS Wire forum is not a good example of what one will actually see at a SASS match, I am inclined to think the the WB forum is a poor example of what a new shooter will find at a WB match. 

 

The minimum bullet weight for WB has been changed to 177gr (not sure what it was before).  I assume this is a minimum bullet weight for both pistol and rifle ammo.  I know exactly one person in SASS that loads 38s with a bullet that heavy (me):D.  

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45 minutes ago, Marshal Fire, SASS 10064 said:

I can’t speak for others but you are welcome to shoot your 38 rifles and join the fun. I don’t see anything wrong or or certainly unwelcoming to the shoot when I express my feeling about using  a heavy bullet in the 38. Shoot what you have and have fun. Yul Lose , I have met you a few times at EOT and have no doubt that you would add to the fun and entertainment of the match.

load them up and let’s go!

Thank you, Marshal Fire. 
 

There used to be a nearby club that hosted WB matches and Cowboy shooters were welcome to shoot it Cowboy style with our SASS cowboy guns. Sadly that club shut down. Here at Escondido years ago they’d have an occasional WB match and we were not welcome to shoot the match Cowboy. Some of those same WB shooters would shoot their WB guns WB style in monthly CAS matches and still do on occasion. I guess that’s the rub for me. They don’t want us but we cater to them. Up at Cajon there used to be a couple of pards that would shoot it both ways at the CAS match, bring WB guns and gear and cowboy gear and shoot it one way and change guns and gear and shoot it the other. 

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4 minutes ago, July Smith said:

I'm going to assume any negative comments about 38 shooters starting to shoot WB are made by people that are either no longer active WB shooters or not super fast shooters anyways.  Much like the SASS Wire forum is not a good example of what one will actually see at a SASS match, I am inclined to think the the WB forum is a poor example of what a new shooter will find at a WB match. 

 

The minimum bullet weight for WB has been changed to 177gr (not sure what it was before).  I assume this is a minimum bullet weight for both pistol and rifle ammo.  I know exactly one person in SASS that loads 38s with a bullet that heavy (me):D.  

July

i believe the reduction in bullet weight to 177 was related to the 45 acp. Some bullet casters sell 180 grain bullets for the 45 and May at times cast some bullets that are slightly under 180. The rule change was set so a shooter would not be disqualified at a major match due to a slight variation in bullet weight.

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The club I shoot at offers "Cowboy 1911" which is basically all the SASS patterns but instead of two revolvers loaded with 5rds each it is one 1911 pistol with two mags loaded with 5rds.  Any SASS legal rifle and shotgun may be used.  Honestly it doesn't seem to be that popular a category, but that could just be my own observations.  

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At the Circle K in Upstate NY we shoot monthly WB on the day before Cowboy, Different target arrays and scenarios. Several years ago we modified our club rules and called it Rough Rider, here are the rules as published on our webpage. As you can see they are very close to the new rules except we also allow a 45acp revolver with moon clips.

 

  • Note that we also run monthly 'Rough Rider' shoots at 10 am on the Saturday prior to our monthly CAS matches. For upcoming Rough Rider shoot dates, see our "Shoots" page.

    Below are some details as to how we run our Rough Rider matches. As you will see, we do not strictly adhere to SASS Wild Bunch rules for these events.

    - No more than SEVEN (7) rounds will be loaded in a pistol magazine at a time.

    - All handguns will fire .45 ACP from a moon clip or a magazine.

    - In addition to Traditional and Modern categories as classified by SASS, a Revolver category will also be offered.

    -Any size 1911 may be used in the Traditional or Modern categories. Full size, Commander, Officer, Long Slide etc. No fiber optics or red dots allowed.

    - The Revolver category will be for a .45 ACP 6-shot revolver. Moon clip with fixed or adjustable sights. No fiber optics or red dots allowed.

    - Revolver shooters may move with a loaded gun and a spent round under the hammer. Example; Fire 6 shots, reload for the 7th and then move to the next shooting position with hammer down on a spent round and 5 live rounds in the gun.

    - Any SASS legal pistol caliber rifle is allowed.

    - Any 1887, 1897 or Model 12 shotgun in 12, 16 or 20 ga. is allowed

    - Reactive rifle targets will be set for factory .38 special 158 gr. bullets.

    - Handgun reactive targets will be set for SASS Wild Bunch .45 ACP power factor.

Has this helped attract more shooters? I would hope so, In 2023 for 7 matches we averaged 18 shooters with a high of 28. At the 2023 NYS WB Championship held using strictly the WB rules we had 68 shooters. My personal opinion is that anything we as a club can do to bring in just 1 new shooter is a step forward. 

Edited by Seth Bradford
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14 hours ago, Tully Mars said:

 

Unless its a shared bay with another posse, the TO should be watching the timer and adjusting distance if the timer is not picking up shots. Regardless which gun is shot last. 

While that’s true, if rifle is shot out of a window it may not be possible to get the timer close enough without disturbing the shooter.  Some TO’s may be attentive enough, but are all the TO’s on all of the other posses?  I believe not.  At a championship level match, it wouldn’t take many shots not picked up by the timer to completely change the outcome.

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2 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

My first reaction to this was pretty positive. Enough so for me to load up some .45.

 

But, the more I read reactions from current WB shooters the more I get the feeling that folks with .38 special rifles aren’t going to be welcomed. 
 

Some clubs aren’t going to allow .38 special despite the rule change.

 

Some clubs will set KDs so high .38 special won’t take them down.

 

Some want a special ‘cheaters’ category…that will definitely make new shooters feel welcome.

 

It’s the ‘I’m here to have fun’ group against the ‘gamers’ all over again.

 

That got old a decade ago.

 

I’m definitely rethinking this. I have no desire to shoot in a match where I’m made to feel unwelcome simply because I’m shooting .38 special in my rifle. 
 

Y’all keep your game, I’ve changed my mind.

I'd submit you're taking this discussion a bit too personal.  Any club hosting a SASS sanctioned WB match will need to adhere to the rules.  You'll likely know what the club you intend to go to is doing(sanctioned or not).  You don't let CAS discussions on the Wire keep you from "feeling welcome" shooting CAS, do you?

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25 minutes ago, Fireball #7709 Life said:

I'd submit you're taking this discussion a bit too personal.  Any club hosting a SASS sanctioned WB match will need to adhere to the rules.  You'll likely know what the club you intend to go to is doing(sanctioned or not).  You don't let CAS discussions on the Wire keep you from "feeling welcome" shooting CAS, do you?

You have a point.  I know the Belton match will be a fun bunch. 

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Okay now that we have reached seven pages I feel comfortable enough to chime in. 
First let me say I am a middle of the pack WB shooter. 
I have the firearms (73 in 45 Colt, 97 in 12 gauge, 1911 in 45ACP) currently required. 
I like WB even though I am not very good. :D
However I have shot a grand total of 9, (one more than eight!) WB matches. Three at WR/EOT, two state matches four monthly matches in the last five years. 
The reason so few matches is because where I live there simply aren’t that many. Maybe a couple per year at best. 
All of the opining about rule changes is not going to attract very many (if even one) new shooter to my club because they (new shooters) simply don’t see the game as a wise use of their time and resources (money). It is heartbreaking to see hard feelings coming out (both sides) BEFORE the change’s even take place! 
For me personally I would shoot WB as is IF there were matches in my area. For those who don’t want to increase the amount of guns in the safe but want to play with what they have (38) I have seen that done without a corresponding increase in the number of traditional WB shooters. If the changes are truly to increase participation it seems there will almost certainly need to be more (shudder!) categories to accommodate the new shooters. If that proves unacceptable then WB seems headed to becoming a footnote to history. 
Just my opinion of course. 
Regards,

(and props to all who worked so hard to get WB off the ground)

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

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