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For 5 minutes - YOU are King/ Queen of SASS


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     My issues aren't with sass or cas, it goes back to what Judge Roy Bean always told me.

"What good is fun if you're not having it?"  So I know how to run a safe range and to have fun but what's left of my body doesn't want to cooperate as often as I'd like.

     As long as we don't throw out the baby with the bathwater I'm ok.

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SDQ = "Initially staging a long gun with the hammer cocked/action closed (once it leaves

the shooter’s hands)"

 

I would like to see this go away also. Simply have the TO tell the shooter to stage it correctly. The shooter can do this anytime during the stage after the beep, why not before starting?

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2 hours ago, July Smith said:

If I was king of SASS...

 

Increase and enforce a minimum power factor of 100.  (Exceptions for senior+ age based categories and 22lr categories) Serves no purpose other than causing more wear on the targets.

 

Allow for movement while shooting.

 

Allow for shotguns to be staged with two shells loaded.  87/97s can be loaded at the loading table and staged with actions closed and hammers down on an empty chamber, SxS can be loaded before the timer goes off and staged opened.  Stoking on the clock is allowed by default. WHY??? It's fun to load on the clock and the skill is part of the game.

 

Reduce the categories by doing the following unpopular things.  Combine the genders.  Combine the gunfighter and duelist categories. Oh this is a good idea...destroy women's participation and the Duelist catagory...AWESOME!!

 

All black powder categories will have the classic rule about calibers starting with a 4.   WHY???

 

Some form of minimum holster retention.  Seriously? What problem are you trying to fix?

 

Eye tests for spotters. 

 

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7 hours ago, Cholla said:

Half our shotgun targets are reactive. And we have a progressive plate rack for rifle. 

We have a plate rack but it has only been used for WBAS so far. I missed the Annual match this year that had some different target setups. 

 

14 hours ago, VinnieBoomBah said:

 

What are 'non reactive' shotgun targets? :blink:

Meant to say "were not". At my club all the shotgun targets have been reactive. I did shoot at one club that they were not though. 

Edited by Idaho Gunslinger
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5 hours ago, StirrupTrouble said:

Eliminate 90+%  of the categories. It has gotten to the point, especially as overall numbers shrink where other than top overall, the awards are basically meaningless.

I agree, it’s ridiculous and laughable! 

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1 hour ago, July Smith said:

Oh forgot to add...

 

Bring back Rank scoring.

I'm sorry...I must have missed the part about your initial posting being just a joke.

 

Sorry...now it makes sense.

 

Phantom

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7 hours ago, StirrupTrouble said:

Eliminate 90+%  of the categories. It has gotten to the point, especially as overall numbers shrink where other than top overall, the awards are basically meaningless.

I agree Stirrup, go back to the number of categories we had in 2000 when SASS was really growing. Ever since the implementation of boutique categories our numbers have plummeted. 

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Don't know if its been said but there is only one penalty I've heard that made me say "wait wait...WHAT???"

 

I don't know if it's enforced, but..my understanding:

 

If I lay down a 97 with the port up and an empty .38 from my 73 lands in the shotgun it's the same penalty as if it was a 12gauage round!!!

 

If I understand that rule/penelty correctly it is ABSURD.

 

Absolutely nothing is unsafe about an empty casing from a gun with half the diameter of bullet being in it AND by no fault of your own other than bad luck.

 

Even if the shut the 97 the casing would just simply fall out...hell, even if you had split shotgun and somehow loaded a round and the casing was infront of the round ( INCREDIBLY RARE,PROBABLY IMPOSSIBLE) but if you did, it would just be shot out down range in a safe direction at low velocity.

 

The fact that this could cost you a big penalty and is saving no one from anything it's a rule I'd throw out immediately.

 

Also....if you don't make an effort at the setup line...20sec penalty...butcher it all day...occasionally forget it after something happens getting staged, sure. But if you just don't participate...no go.

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9 minutes ago, One Gun Jimmy said:

If I lay down a 97 with the port up and an empty .38 from my 73 lands in the shotgun it's the same penalty as if it was a 12gauage round!!!

Show us that rule...from the Shooter's Handbook.

 

Then we'll talk about enforcement.

 

Phantom

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On 10/22/2023 at 1:03 PM, Captain Bill Burt said:

 

I would remove the statement in the shooters handbook that incorrectly says that the 170 is always in effect. Why? Because it’s not correct.

 

Now you’re on to something!

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44 minutes ago, One Gun Jimmy said:

Don't know if its been said but there is only one penalty I've heard that made me say "wait wait...WHAT???"

 

I don't know if it's enforced, but..my understanding:

 

If I lay down a 97 with the port up and an empty .38 from my 73 lands in the shotgun it's the same penalty as if it was a 12gauage round!!!

 

If I understand that rule/penelty correctly it is ABSURD.

...

 

You obviously do NOT "understand correctly":rolleyes:

This is the actual rule (emphasis added):

Quote

Minor Safety Violation (MSV) infractions include:

- Leaving empty or live round(s) in a magazine, action, or carrier of the long gun in

which it was loaded.

SHB p.22

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
add reference
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41 minutes ago, One Gun Jimmy said:

Also....if you don't make an effort at the setup line...20sec penalty...butcher it all day...occasionally forget it after something happens getting staged, sure. But if you just don't participate...no go.

 

Where exactly is THAT to be found?? :o

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1 hour ago, Assassin said:

I agree Stirrup, go back to the number of categories we had in 2000 when SASS was really growing. Ever since the implementation of boutique categories our numbers have plummeted. 

Ok I admit I wasn’t around this sport in 2000, but please explain how the number of categories today has caused a decline in membership/ participation?

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6 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

Where exactly is THAT to be found?? :o

 

Thats probably one of them items in the ROIII booklet... ;)

 

..........Widder

 

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Just now, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Thats probably one of them items in the ROIII booklet... ;)

 

..........Widder

 

It's NOT (at least in my copy of the current 2023 version)

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2 hours ago, One Gun Jimmy said:

Also....if you don't make an effort at the setup line...20sec penalty...butcher it all day...occasionally forget it after something happens getting staged, sure. But if you just don't participate...no go.

I do not understand what you are trying to say.

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On 10/22/2023 at 11:46 AM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Be able to "move" and shoot.

 

Phantom

 

PS: Using the phrase "Plant and Poke" earns an immediate MDQ.

I am on that band wagon. Great idea. 

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2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Show us that rule...from the Shooter's Handbook.

 

Then we'll talk about enforcement.

 

Phantom

That’s not a loaded round in the 97, it an ejected load. Just the same as laying your empty and open 97 port side down on a cartridge or shotgun hull. No call 

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23 minutes ago, Cholla said:

I do not understand what you are trying to say.

 

1 hour ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

Where exactly is THAT to be found?? :o

 

1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

There's a 20 second penalty somewhere???

 

Hmmmm...interesting...

 

Phantom

 

 

I think he is saying that the rule he would add is a 20 second penalty for not at least attempting to say the Line at the start of the stage. 

 

The problem with that rule is the same as the problem with an SOG. How exactly do you define attempting something or prove the intent of the shooter. 

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10 minutes ago, oak creek martin said:

That’s not a loaded round in the 97, it an ejected load. Just the same as laying your empty and open 97 port side down on a cartridge or shotgun hull. No call 

I was being...facetious.

 

Also, if you pick up a 97 and there was a hull under it...and in the port, that's a MSV. Unless that rule has been changed (Same thing with a Marlin).

 

Phantom

 

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7 minutes ago, oak creek martin said:

That’s not a loaded round in the 97, it an ejected load. Just the same as laying your empty and open 97 port side down on a cartridge or shotgun hull. No call 

 

READ what he wrote...

the rant was about a (nonexistent) penalty for .38 brass from the rifle in the port of a '97 shotgun.

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1 minute ago, Idaho Gunslinger said:

 

 

 

 

I think he is saying that the rule he would add is a 20 second penalty for not at least attempting to say the Line at the start of the stage. 

 

The problem with that rule is the same as the problem with an SOG. How exactly do you define attempting something or prove the intent of the shooter. 

A penalty for not saying the Starting Line?????

 

Oh good lord, please say this isn't happening out there...oy...

 

PS: There are NO 20 second penalties.

 

Phantom

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3 minutes ago, Idaho Gunslinger said:

I think he is saying that the rule he would add is a 20 second penalty for not at least attempting to say the Line at the start of the stage. 

 

The problem with that rule is the same as the problem with an SOG. How exactly do you define attempting something or prove the intent of the shooter. 

 

I don't think that's what he is saying at all.

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9 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Serves no purpose other than causing more wear on the targets.

Oh, let's shoot airsoft guns then, no wear at all anymore! :D Or paintballs for easy spotting, chose your color wisely ;)

 

The purpose of increasing PF in CAS or at least in some categories is - and that's just my opinion - making it a shooting sport rather than an oversized carnival shooting gallery. Steel targets are also used in other shooting sports, some even with FMJ bullets, for comparison: SASS WBAS (PF 150), USPSA (PF 125 / 165), IPSC (PF 125 to 170)

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Encourage placement of targets at the recommended distance when it can be done. There have been some matches I have attended where the pistol targets are so close that I have thought about getting a pair of Buntline revolvers to save on ammunition as I could reach out and smack the pistol targets with the end of the barrel. Speed is important, but so is basic firearm fundamentals that includes the necessity of needing to aim.

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7 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

A penalty for not saying the Starting Line?????

 

Oh good lord, please say this isn't happening out there...oy...

 

PS: There are NO 20 second penalties.

 

Phantom

Oh yes! We had a member recently make the claim that failure to say the starting line is a P. When he was corrected he stated he would refuse to start a shooter if they didn’t attempt the correct line because he felt that gave them a ‘competitive advantage.’

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7 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

A penalty for not saying the Starting Line?????

 

Oh good lord, please say this isn't happening out there...oy...

 

PS: There are NO 20 second penalties.

 

Phantom

In Indiana, there was always a starting line, usually stapled somewhere that the shooter could see. Here in Arizona, there is never a starting line. Either place a person could say anything they wanted to indicate the shooter is ready. 

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37 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Oh yes! We had a member recently make the claim that failure to say the starting line is a P. When he was corrected he stated he would refuse to start a shooter if they didn’t attempt the correct line because he felt that gave them a ‘competitive advantage.’

 

People like that member should not be allowed to hold a timer or be in a position (spotter/etc.) to assess penalties. It's bad enough when people make up non-existent rules but then to act like a petulant child when called on it is unacceptable.

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42 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Oh yes! We had a member recently make the claim that failure to say the starting line is a P. When he was corrected he stated he would refuse to start a shooter if they didn’t attempt the correct line because he felt that gave them a ‘competitive advantage.’


Hope y’all took the timer away.

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43 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Oh yes! We had a member recently make the claim that failure to say the starting line is a P. When he was corrected he stated he would refuse to start a shooter if they didn’t attempt the correct line because he felt that gave them a ‘competitive advantage.’

Not a P, just weak.

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11 hours ago, One Gun Jimmy said:

Also....if you don't make an effort at the setup line...20sec penalty...butcher it all day...occasionally forget it after something happens getting staged, sure. But if you just don't participate...no go.

What are you getting at here? An effort to do what? What are you calling the setup line?

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