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Israel at war


Rye Miles #13621

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46 minutes ago, PowderRiverCowboy said:

Fresh info in from my former Targeter   and anyone that feels we need to allow Hamas to survive and continue as a terrorist group can join them ,
 As of this morning they have found appx 40 infants dead from Hama all decapitated .

 

Now ask me how I really feel about Hamas 

Kind of reminds me of the old "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" sayings from my time in. Also had "Nuke their a** and take the gas" T shirts back then.

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1 minute ago, Blackwater 53393 said:


The Iranian general public has probably not heard anything about that six billion dollars and if they have, they’ll likely never see any benefit from it!

Nope. They're just sitting around hating Jews for being Jews, and the rest of us for being Infidels.

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General William tecumseh Sherman once said that it was necessary to make the backers , the civilian population of the southern rebellion to suffer in order to end the war in the field.  He then set out to make Georgia howl.  We haven’t rebelled since.  We haven’t forgotten it either.  

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16 hours ago, Trigger Mike said:

General William tecumseh Sherman once said that it was necessary to make the backers , the civilian population of the southern rebellion to suffer in order to end the war in the field.  He then set out to make Georgia howl.  We haven’t rebelled since.  We haven’t forgotten it either.  

 

No, the folks that have descended from people living in the South haven't forgotten it. They haven't forgotten their homes being burnt to the ground, livestock stolen/killed, crops burnt/destroyed, the starvation or the carpetbaggers that flocked from North to the South to take advantage of the now homeless, starving people for pennies on the dollar.

 

They (99% mol) also weren't terrorists or supporters of terrorists nor did the Confederate Army hide behind women and children. 

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The biggest problem with history is, nobody learns from it.  From the Crusades, to the "Shores of Tripoli", to all the worldwide Muslim terrorist attacks in the 90's and 2000's, the world has not understood that the disciples of the Koran believe that all non-disciples are infidels and must be destroyed.  Whether they are Jews or Christians or non-believers of the Koran, they must be and will be destroyed.

And they are now in the USA thanks to Biden.

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Israel is getting ready for their ground assault into Gaza, they have been warning the populace to leave, go to shelters.   Telling them, "If you stay, you'll die".  So, a good number have gone to UN shelters.   Hamas however, is telling the people to stay, "Don't leave your homes because of the Zionist liars!"   Hamas wants maximum civilian casualties so that the opinion of the world will shift, seeing the Palestinians as the "poor victims of Israeli aggression".   And since they see the U.S. as weak, with no will for the long haul, that we'll abandon Israel.

 

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How Israel’s Feared Security Services Failed to Stop Hamas’s Attack

Israel’s military and espionage services are considered among the world’s best, but on Saturday, operational and intelligence failures led to the worst breach of Israeli defenses in half a century.

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Hamas fighters used earth-moving equipment to breach the border fence between Gaza and Israel on Saturday, allowing more than 1,500 fighters to surge through nearly 30 points along the border.Credit...Mohammed Fayq Abu Mostafa/Reuters

Ronen BergmanPatrick Kingsley

By Ronen Bergman and Patrick Kingsley

The reporters spoke to current and former Israeli security officials to build an understanding of how Israel failed to foresee and confront the Hamas attack.

Oct. 10, 2023

Sign up for The Interpreter newsletter, for Times subscribers only.  Original analysis on the week’s biggest global stories, from columnist Amanda Taub. Get it in your inbox.

Shortly before attackers from Gaza poured into Israel at dawn on Saturday, Israeli intelligence detected a surge in activity on some of the Gazan militant networks it monitors. Realizing something unusual was happening, they sent an alert to the Israeli soldiers guarding the Gazan border, according to two senior Israeli security officials.

But the warning wasn’t acted upon, either because the soldiers didn’t get it or the soldiers didn’t read it.

Shortly afterward, Hamas, the group that controls Gaza, sent drones to disable some of the Israeli military’s cellular communications stations and surveillance towers along the border, preventing the duty officers from monitoring the area remotely with video cameras. The drones also destroyed remote-controlled machine guns that Israel had installed on its border fortifications, removing a key means of combating a ground attack.

That made it easier for Hamas assailants to approach and blow up parts of the border fence and bulldoze it in several places with surprising ease, allowing thousands of Palestinians to walk through the gaps.

These operational failures and weaknesses were among a wide array of logistical and intelligence lapses by the Israeli security services that paved the way for the Gazan incursion into southern Israel, according to four senior Israeli security officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to discuss a sensitive matter and their early assessment of what went wrong.

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Palestinian attackers moved toward the border fence with Israel on Saturday from Khan Yunis in the southern Gaza Strip.Credit...Said Khatib/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

The brazen infiltration of more than 20 Israeli towns and army bases in that raid was the worst breach of Israel’s defenses in 50 years and shattered the nation’s sense of security. For hours, the strongest military in the Middle East was rendered powerless to fight back against a far weaker enemy, leaving villages defenseless for most of the day against squads of attackers who killed more than 900 Israelis, including soldiers in their underwear; abducted at least 150 people; overran at least four military camps; and spread out across more than 30 square miles of Israeli territory.

The four officials said the success of the attack, based on their early assessment, was rooted in a slew of security failures by Israel’s intelligence community and military, including:

  • Failure by intelligence officers to monitor key communication channels used by Palestinian attackers;

  • Overreliance on border surveillance equipment that was easily shut down by attackers, allowing them to raid military bases and slay soldiers in their beds;

  • Clustering of commanders in a single border base that was overrun in the opening phase of the incursion, preventing communication with the rest of the armed forces;

  • And a willingness to accept at face value assertions by Gazan military leaders, made on private channels that the Palestinians knew were being monitored by Israel, that they were not preparing for battle.

“We spend billions and billions on gathering intelligence on Hamas,” said Yoel Guzansky, a former senior official at Israel’s National Security Council. “Then, in a second,” he added, “everything collapsed like dominoes.”

The first failure took root months before the attack, as Israeli security chiefs made incorrect assumptions about the extent of the threat that Hamas posed to Israel from Gaza.

Hamas stayed out of two fights in the past year, allowing Palestinian Islamic Jihad, a smaller armed group in Gaza, to take on Israel alone. Last month, Hamas leadership also ended a period of rioting along the border, in an agreement brokered by Qatar, giving the impression that they were not looking for an escalation.

“Hamas is very, very restrained and understands the implications of further defiance,” said Tzachi Hanegbi, Israel’s national security adviser, in a radio interview six days before the assault.

 

When Israeli intelligence officials briefed senior security chiefs last week about the most urgent threats to the country’s defenses, they focused on the dangers posed by Lebanese militants along Israel’s northern border.

The challenge posed by Hamas was barely mentioned.

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Israeli soldiers carrying the body of a person who was killed in the village of Kfar Azza, Israel, on Saturday.Credit...Sergey Ponomarev for The New York Times

Hamas is deterred, the briefers said, according to one of the security officials.

In calls, Hamas operatives, who talked to each other when tapped by Israeli intelligence agents, also gave the sense that they sought to avoid another war with Israel so soon after a damaging two-week conflict in May 2021, according to two of the Israeli officials. Israeli intelligence, they said, is now looking into whether those calls were real or staged.

The next failure was operational.

Two of the officials said that the Israeli border surveillance system was almost entirely reliant on cameras, sensors and machine guns that are operated remotely.

Israeli commanders had grown overly confident in the system’s impregnability. They thought that the combination of remote surveillance and arms, barriers above ground and a subterranean wall to block Hamas from digging tunnels into Israel made mass infiltration unlikely, reducing the need for significant numbers of soldiers to be physically stationed along border line itself.

With the system in place, the military started reducing the number of troops there, moving them to other areas of concern, including the West Bank, according to Israel Ziv, a retired major general who commanded ground forces in the south for many years, served as the head of the I.D.F.’s Operations Division from 2003 to 2005, and was recently recruited into the reserves again because of the war.

“The thinning of the forces seemed reasonable because of the construction of the fence and the aura they created around it, as if it were invincible, that nothing would be able to pass it,” he said.

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Palestinians with a destroyed Israeli tank next to the border fence on Saturday.Credit...Mohammed Fayq Abu Mostafa/Reuters

But the remote-control system had a vulnerability: It could also be destroyed remotely.

Hamas took advantage of that weakness by sending aerial drones to attack the cellular towers that transmitted signals to and from the surveillance system, according to the officials and also drone footage circulated by Hamas on Saturday and analyzed by The New York Times.

Without cellular signals, the system was useless. Soldiers stationed in control rooms behind the front lines did not receive alarms that the fence separating Gaza and Israel had been breached, and could not watch video showing them where the Hamas attackers were bulldozing the barricades. In addition, the barrier turned out to be easier to break through than Israeli officials had expected.

That allowed more than 1,500 Gazan fighters to surge through nearly 30 points along the border, some of them in hang-gliders that flew over the top of the barricades, and reach at least four Israeli military bases without being intercepted.

Photos shared by one of the Israeli officials showed that scores of Israeli soldiers were then shot as they slept in their dorms. Some were still wearing their underclothes.

The second operational failure was the clustering of leaders from the army’s Gaza division in a single location along the border. Once the base was overrun, most of the senior officers were killed, injured or taken hostage, according to two of the Israeli officials.

That situation, combined with the communication problems caused by the drone strikes, prevented a coordinated response. This kept anyone along the border from grasping the full breadth of the assault, including the commanders who rushed from elsewhere in Israel to launch a counterattack.

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Palestinians on Saturday passing through a break in the border fence between Gaza and Israel.Credit...Yasser Qudih/Reuters

“Understanding what the picture was of the different terrorist attacks was very difficult,” said Brig. Gen. Dan Goldfuss, an Israeli commander who helped lead the counterattack.

At one point on the ground, the general encountered — by chance — a commander from another brigade. There and then, the two men decided on an ad hoc basis which villages their respective units would try to retake.

“We decided just between ourselves,” the general said. “And that’s how we went by, from one village to another.”

All of this meant it was hard, especially in the early stages, to communicate the gravity of the situation to the military high command in Tel Aviv.

As a result, no one there sensed the immediate need for a massive, rapid air cover, even as social media emerged with reports of attacks in many communities. It took hours for the Air Force to arrive over much of the area, even though it has bases just minutes away in flying time, according to two of the Israeli officials and survivors of the attacks.

The fallout has been catastrophic for Israel’s security, as well as potentially damaging to its reputation in the region as a reliable military partner.

Before Saturday, “Israel was an asset to many countries in the region on security issues,” Mr. Guzansky said. “The image now is that Israel is not an asset.”

The Israeli security services do not dispute the scale of their initial failure. But they say that it can only be investigated after the war ends.

“We’ll finish this,” said Lt. Col. Richard Hecht, a military spokesman, as the army attempted to regain control of the communities on Saturday.

But, he said, “You know that this will be investigated.

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23 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

What part of this is not believable?  Hamas has shouted their intentions from the rooftops and blatantly glorified their involvement!

Everybody knows their intention, they want to do something bad enough to provoke the most response possible, because that's how they get bigger and stronger. Everybody saying "kill 'em all" is doing exactly what the terrorists want. Trying to wipe out all their military capability in Gaza is a good goal, but I hope somebody can come up with a way to go after the leaders who are sitting safe at home while they send out other people to kill and get killed. 

 

This last point is not directed at you Blackwater, it's for a whole lot of other posts in this thread. Maybe reacting exactly the way they want you to react is not the best way to defeat them. 

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The Palestinians are all about territory.  Eliminate the Gaza Strip.  Invade and force march any surviving Palestinians across Israel to the West Bank.  Nobody left alive in the Gaza Strip.  

 

It's time to go Old Testament on these people.  They need an Andrew Jacksonstein.

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680 said:

Everybody knows their intention, they want to do something bad enough to provoke the most response possible, because that's how they get bigger and stronger. Everybody saying "kill 'em all" is doing exactly what the terrorists want. Trying to wipe out all their military capability in Gaza is a good goal, but I hope somebody can come up with a way to go after the leaders who are sitting safe at home while they send out other people to kill and get killed. 

 

This last point is not directed at you Blackwater, it's for a whole lot of other posts in this thread. Maybe reacting exactly the way they want you to react is not the best way to defeat them. 

 

 

You are applying Western logic to a group that  Martyrs anyone for Allah, You cant apply such logic to a group that would gut your grandkid in front of you . I spent years in the  Middle East working with much better intel and closer than that local news channel you get.
  You can not discuss peace with those that want you exterminated , period they talk like the Crusades happened last week . They were the aggressors meaning to wipe out a entire group this is not limited to just Israel. The only way to deal with Violence is overwhelming violence . It's easy to say from your recliner to lets try peace this has been planned for years ,

12 hours ago, Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 said:

The biggest problem with history is, nobody learns from it.  From the Crusades, to the "Shores of Tripoli", to all the worldwide Muslim terrorist attacks in the 90's and 2000's, the world has not understood that the disciples of the Koran believe that all non-disciples are infidels and must be destroyed.  Whether they are Jews or Christians or non-believers of the Koran, they must be and will be destroyed.

And they are now in the USA thanks to Biden.

 

Lets back that date up a bit in recent history  the 80's Beirut 241 "peacekeepers"  with a ROA of calling in for permission to cut the lead wire seal on ammo pouch insert magazine and return fire only after receiving 5 concentrated rounds of fire on your team( I will post my ROA card here in a few days )
 Its also funny how on the world wide terrorist list the top 21 (?) worldwide are redacted from the same USA list .

 

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1 hour ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Just as likely sitting safe in the Emirates and places of luxury, not squalor.

 

Many Nazi war criminals thought they were safe also. It's just a matter of time for this group also.:ph34r:

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1 hour ago, Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680 said:

Everybody knows their intention, they want to do something bad enough to provoke the most response possible, because that's how they get bigger and stronger. Everybody saying "kill 'em all" is doing exactly what the terrorists want. Trying to wipe out all their military capability in Gaza is a good goal, but I hope somebody can come up with a way to go after the leaders who are sitting safe at home while they send out other people to kill and get killed. 

 

This last point is not directed at you Blackwater, it's for a whole lot of other posts in this thread. Maybe reacting exactly the way they want you to react is not the best way to defeat them. 

 

Then what do you suppose or suggest is the best way to

defeat them......... another 6 BILLION dollars?

 

..........Widder

 

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17 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

No, the folks that have descended from people living in the South haven't forgotten it. They haven't forgotten their homes being burnt to the ground, livestock stolen/killed, crops burnt/destroyed, the starvation or the carpetbaggers that flocked from North to the South to take advantage of the now homeless, starving people for pennies on the dollar.

 

They (99% mol) also weren't terrorists or supporters of terrorists nor did the Confederate Army hide behind women and children. 

My point being, make the civilians who support hamas suffer and at the same time kill hamas and perhaps this won’t happen again.

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14 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

Reportedly the Israeli government is acquiring and issuing 10,000 "assault rifles" to border area towns.

 

They can probably call up Eric Holder and see if he has

any left over from his secret stash of confiscated guns.

 

..........Widder

 

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20 minutes ago, Trigger Mike said:

My point being, make the civilians who support hamas suffer and at the same time kill hamas and perhaps this won’t happen again.

I don't think that there ARE "civilians" in all of this. The "good" Muslims that live there support what is happening. As far as they are concerned, all Infidels must die. Period, All Stop. 

Look at all the Muslims here in our own country that are supporting these attacks. As far as I'm concerned, they are as much a part of the problem as the people that performed these heinous acts.

Think back to another war that many of us here fought in. The U.S. military hired "civilians" to come into our Bases and do laundry, housekeeping, shine boots, all sorts of menial tasks. These same "civilians" would be the same people that put on black pajamas and attack the Bases at night. They supported what was happening there and participated in it. Look how THAT war turned out for us. 

The only way to stop these kinds of acts from ever happening is to eliminate anybody who might be inclined to do so. ANYBODY!

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Project DYNAMO, Rep. Cory Mills (FL), and some civilian operations are trying to get Americans out of Israel, as commercial flights are avoiding the area.   Why isn't the State Department or some branch of our gov't working to extract any American civilians who want to get outa there?

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19 minutes ago, McCandless said:

Project DYNAMO, Rep. Cory Mills (FL), and some civilian operations are trying to get Americans out of Israel, as commercial flights are avoiding the area.   Why isn't the State Department or some branch of our gov't working to extract any American civilians who want to get outa there?

"Cause they'd need instructions on the sole to pour water out of a boot?  Cause they can't find their butts with both hands?

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@Tennessee williams did you happen to see that there is a cowboy on this thread you need to meet, I'm sure you have something in common with the @Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680. :lol:

 

Kajun

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21 minutes ago, Krazy Kajun said:

@Tennessee williams did you happen to see that there is a cowboy on this thread you need to meet, I'm sure you have something in common with the @Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680. :lol:

 

Kajun


In the words of George H.W. Bush, “Would NOT be prudent at this time!” :ph34r: :lol:

 

KK! You’re liable to get Schoolmarm’s cousin in a lot of trouble!! :o

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The Palestinian Islamic Resistance Movement Hamas has called on the Palestinian people, the Arab and Muslim nations, and the free peoples of the world to participate in the Al-Aqsa Flood Friday. 

In light of the historical achievement made by the Palestinian resistance against the Israeli occupation, the Palestinian Islamic Resistance Movement Hamas states the following: 

First: We call on the Arab and Muslim world and the free peoples of the world to attend the Al-Aqsa Flood event on Friday in order to voice solidarity with the Palestinian people and resistance, expose the Israeli occupation's crimes and foil its aggressive schemes, and defend the Al-Aqsa Mosque, the Muslims' first Qibla and third holiest site.  

Second: We call on the Palestinian citizens of the occupied West Bank and Jerusalem to take part in mass protests against the Israeli occupation and colonial settlers everywhere. 

Third: We call on the Palestinian citizens of the Palestinian territories occupied in 1948 to intensify their presence at the Al-Aqsa Mosque in order to preserve its Islamic identity, prevent Israeli colonial settlers from desecrating it, and foil the Israeli schemes aimed at dividing and Judaizing the Muslim holy site.  

Fourth: We call on the Arab and Muslim peoples and the Palestinians everywhere, particularly in refugee camps abroad and in diaspora, to march towards the borders of occupied Palestine in solidarity with Palestine, Jerusalem, and the Al-Aqsa Mosque. 

Fifth: We call on the free peoples of the world to express solidarity with the Palestinian people and endorse their just cause and their legitimate rights to freedom, independence, return, and self-determination.

Hamas movement 
Tuesday, 10 October 2023    
 

 

 

https://hamas.ps/en/post/4978/Hamas-calls-for-mass-participation-in-Al-Aqsa-Flood-Friday

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Sadly, there are plenty of people, including members of the Squad, who agree with that! Maybe these people ought to hold their demonstrations in the middle of the street in the Gaza Strip...right before the next IDF airstrike! 

OTOH, Biden just told the Iranians, "Be careful. Be careful!" He also said that those Hamas terrorists are "dead men"!  Incidentally, a number of C-17's were seen landing at Ben Gurion airport near Tel Aviv! I don't know what the cargo capacity of those birds is, but I'd bet it's significant!

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2 hours ago, Trailrider #896 said:

Sadly, there are plenty of people, including members of the Squad, who agree with that! Maybe these people ought to hold their demonstrations in the middle of the street in the Gaza Strip...right before the next IDF airstrike! 

OTOH, Biden just told the Iranians, "Be careful. Be careful!" He also said that those Hamas terrorists are "dead men"!  Incidentally, a number of C-17's were seen landing at Ben Gurion airport near Tel Aviv! I don't know what the cargo capacity of those birds is, but I'd bet it's significant!



I will tell you we have Tier1 and SF on ground right now . other units have been given 10-14 days and told 5-10 months .

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