Dropping sixgun on table instead of holstering?

[Currahee]

What is the rule on this?

Thanks,,

C.

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Only if it is the last gun (still have to holster both when you are done shooting)
Or
If the stage instructions say you can do so. (see shooter's handbook, page 14)

Or, if it's broken, you can declare it broke & put it on the table pointing downrange
--Dawg

[Chief Rick]

38 minutes ago, Currahee said:

What is the rule on this?

Thanks,,

C.

 

25 minutes ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said:

Only if it is the last gun (still have to holster both when you are done shooting)
Or
If the stage instructions say you can do so. (see shooter's handbook, page 14)

Or, if it's broken, you can declare it broke & put it on the table pointing downrange
--Dawg

Not quite.

 

SHB Page 14

 

FIREARM CONVENTIONS
Safety & Handling Conventions – Revolvers

Revolvers are returned to leather (re-holstered in a safe condition) at the
conclusion of the shooting string, unless the stage description specifically directs
otherwise (e.g., “move to the next position and set gun on table or prop”). A
shooting string is defined as shots from one type of firearm prior to the next type
of firearm engaged.

 

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

HI CR:
I believe you can put it on the table instead of re-holstering if it is the LAST GUN.
I believe the rule you quoted is if there is another gun after yer revolvers.
I also believe that you can put one revolver on the table, shoot the other one, and then holster them both before moving on to the next gun

--Dawg

[Chief Rick]

13 minutes ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said:

HI CR:
I believe you can put it on the table instead of re-holstering if it is the LAST GUN.
I believe the rule you quoted is if there is another gun after yer revolvers.
I also believe that you can put one revolver on the table, shoot the other one, and then holster them both before moving on to the next gun

--Dawg

The way you worded your response is what has me confused, as I am reading two different things:

"I believe you can put it on the table instead of re-holstering if it is the LAST GUN. "

"I also believe that you can put one revolver on the table, shoot the other one, and then holster them both before moving on to the next gun"

 

Regardless of where the revolvers are shot during the course of fire, the shooter can choose to place the empty revolver on a table/prop, but, they must both be holstered prior to moving to the next position/moving to the next firearm type unless a gun malfunction is declared.

 

In the case of a split pistol string, if a shooter places the first revolver on the table/prop and then shoots another type of firearm, then a penalty is assessed.  

[Hoss]

It really only makes sense to do it when pistols are last gun. 

[Chief Rick]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

It really only makes sense to do it when pistols are last gun. 

Even then, depending on the prop/table, it may be a disadvantage.

 

I've seen more than one revolver get dropped to the ground or spun around on the table/prop because it's not something the shooter is used to doing.

[Itchy Trigger]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

It really only makes sense to do it when pistols are last gun. 

 

I wanted to practice it on appropriate stage's at one monthly but kept forgetting. Mentioned it to another pard. and he recommended against it, he said his wife does it all the time and every once and a while she does it on a stage she shouldn't!

[Hoss]

Some folks can’t overcome the muscle memory to do it. I usually do if there is a good table to put it on. Less chance of missing holster and taking 2 or 3 stabs at it. 

[Diamond Jake]

4 hours ago, Chief Rick said:

...Regardless of where the revolvers are shot during the course of fire, the shooter can choose to place the empty revolver on a table/prop, but, they must both be holstered prior to moving to the next position/moving to the next firearm type unless a gun malfunction is declared...

 

 

 Chief Rick, the reason it was said "unless the pistols are the last gun" is because there is no "Next Firearm" in that case.  The shooter simply must holster his revolvers (off the clock) before going to the unload table.

[Kid Rich]

16 hours ago, Chief Rick said:

The way you worded your response is what has me confused, as I am reading two different things:

"I believe you can put it on the table instead of re-holstering if it is the LAST GUN. "

"I also believe that you can put one revolver on the table, shoot the other one, and then holster them both before moving on to the next gun"

 

Regardless of where the revolvers are shot during the course of fire, the shooter can choose to place the empty revolver on a table/prop, but, they must both be holstered prior to moving to the next position/moving to the next firearm type unless a gun malfunction is declared.

 

In the case of a split pistol string, if a shooter places the first revolver on the table/prop and then shoots another type of firearm, then a penalty is assessed.  

What about a split pistol string for a GF?

kR

[Captain Bill Burt]

22 minutes ago, Kid Rich said:

What about a split pistol string for a GF?

kR

Shoot it duelist or put ‘em on the prop cause they can’t be reholstered with the intent to use them again.

[Kid Rich]

3 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Shoot it duelist or put ‘em on the prop cause they can’t be reholstered with the intent to use them again.

I know the answer but CR did not include that as an option.

kR

[Crusty Knees]

20 hours ago, Currahee said:

What is the rule on this?

Thanks,,

C.

 

I'd need a bit more information.  "Dropping the gun on the table".  Did the shooter lose control of the gun, and it dropped and hit the table?  Was it cocked?  Were all shots fired or was the hammer down on an unfired round? 

Or did the shooter stage the gun on the table?  When in the stage sequence did they do that?  Was it between guns while shooting the pistol sequence?

Was it at the end of the pistol string and the shooter still had a long gun to shoot?  

More information is needed, please.

[Tennessee williams]

I can understand your confusion, there is a lot more to answering that short question than it would seem.

 

  SASS definition of "revolver in hand" states that the revolver is still considered in hand if it came from the holster (even if you lay it down on a table, prop, ground, etc) until it is returned to the holster. The only shooting style allowed to have 2 loaded revolvers "in hand" at the same time is Gunfighter. SO: If a non gunfighter style shooter (i.e. duelist or traditional or only age based) draws the first pistol and miscounts and fires only 4 and lays it on the table, then draws the 2nd pistol they will earn a P for shooting out of category as soon as the 2nd pistol is cocked.

  Revolvers must go to holsters after the shooting string and before the next firearm is fired unless instructions say different. Here is where some get mixed up. With revolvers last, the shooter can take his or her time reholstering off the clock because there are no firearms to fire afterward. If revolvers are not last, the shooter will have to reholster on the clock because there is another firearm to fire afterward. Now the confusing part to some. If the revolvers start out staged and are not last, they must still go to leather after the shooting string and before the next firearm is fired unless the stage instructions say different. Stage instructions that say "pistols staged on table"  does not nullify the revolver convention that says they must go to holsters after the string. That shooter would receive a P. Instructions could say "pistols staged on table and may be restaged safely on the table" and that WOULD nullify that particular firearm convention. In that case it would be a no call. 

Clear as mud?

[Rye Miles #13621]

You can only if the  pistols are last and it’s not written that you HAVE to holster!

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

You can only if the  pistols are last and it’s not written that you HAVE to holster!

You can ground the first pistol empty ANYTIME you please.  They simply must be holstered before the next gun is fired.

There is ZERO requirement that they must be the last firearm.

 

IF they are the last firearm - they are holstered at the conclusion of the stage.

 

As for stage instruction.

Unless discussing SPLIT pistols - a pistol shooting string consists of 10 rounds; pistols are only required to be holstered after the (10 round) shooting string is complete.

 

There are no FIRST pistol/ SECOND pistol directions in SASS.

There are 10 round instructions - these can be written as "with 1st 5 rounds - do this and with 2nd 5 rounds - do that".

But a stage writer CANNOT require/ write instruction as "shoot first pistol like such - holster then shoot 2nd pistol like so - holster".

This instruction would negate Gunfighters from shooting and has long ago been dismissed as unenforceable stage instruction.

 

Anyone stage writer still using the 1st pistol/ 2nd pistol verbiage would be recommended to modify their wording to be in compliance with current rules.

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

You can ground the first pistol empty ANYTIME you please.  They simply must be holstered before the next gun is fired.

There is ZERO requirement that they must be the last firearm.

 

IF they are the last firearm - they are holstered at the conclusion of the stage.

 

As for stage instruction.

Unless discussing SPLIT pistols - a pistol shooting string consists of 10 rounds; pistols are only required to be holstered after the (10 round) shooting string is complete.

 

There are no FIRST pistol/ SECOND pistol directions in SASS.

There are 10 round instructions - these can be written as "with 1st 5 rounds - do this and with 2nd 5 rounds - do that".

But a stage writer CANNOT require/ write instruction as "shoot first pistol like such - holster then shoot 2nd pistol like so - holster".

This instruction would negate Gunfighters from shooting and has long ago been dismissed as unenforceable stage instruction.

 

Anyone stage writer still using the 1st pistol/ 2nd pistol verbiage would be recommended to modify their wording to be in compliance with current rules.

Hmmm never heard of that before. We recently had a big discussion about and it was determined that the pistols could be grounded only if they were the last guns unless it’s written to holster. We’ve always done it that way at all the clubs I go to. No one has ever grounded the first pistol then shot the 2nd and holstered both. 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

40 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

... No one has ever grounded the first pistol then shot the 2nd and holstered both. 

I see that fairly often.

[Rye Miles #13621]

3 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I see that fairly often.

Wow and I’ve never seen anyone do that at the clubs I go to anyway. It doesn’t save any time you still have to pick up the gun and holster it.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

4 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Wow and I’ve never seen anyone do that at the clubs I go to anyway. It doesn’t save any time you still have to pick up the gun and holster it.

Fast guys don't do it (on purpose, that is).  Usually new shooters or brain fart.

[Hells Comin]

Just did it at the New Mexico state Championship. Pistols were shot at 2nd position,  grounded first Pistol then picked it up and Holstered, then shot the second Pistol. It's faster that way don't u know! Then moved to shotgun. 

   Hells Comin 

[Rye Miles #13621]

14 minutes ago, Hells Comin said:

Just did it at the New Mexico state Championship. Pistols were shot at 2nd position,  grounded first Pistol then picked it up and Holstered, then shot the second Pistol. It's faster that way don't u know! Then moved to shotgun. 

   Hells Comin 

No I don’t think it’s any faster! To each his own game! 

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

36 minutes ago, Hells Comin said:

Just did it at the New Mexico state Championship. Pistols were shot at 2nd position,  grounded first Pistol then picked it up and Holstered, then shot the second Pistol. It's faster that way don't u know! Then moved to shotgun. 

   Hells Comin 

Hells Comin shot 7th out of 67 shooters so this method obviously works for him.

[Tennessee williams]

9 minutes ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

Hells Comin shot 7th out of 67 shooters so this method obviously works for him.

Why did he slow down so much?

 

[Hells Comin]

2 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

Why did he slow down so much?

 

Yup brain fart what's even worse I got a "P" on a Lawrence welk!

[Rye Miles #13621]

25 minutes ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

Hells Comin shot 7th out of 67 shooters so this method obviously works for him.

Let me rephrase that, it’s not any faster for me!  Good for him, every had their own game!

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

7 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Let me rephrase that, it’s not any faster for me!  Good for him, every had their own game!

I think he was saying it was a brain fart, not that he does it all the time! 

[Tennessee williams]

19 minutes ago, Hells Comin said:

Yup brain fart what's even worse I got a "P" on a Lawrence welk!

I knew something happened!

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

And just hope he remembers how to count to 5!

 

 

 

[Assassin]

It's funny how the "placing pistols on table" came to fruition. Tables were set at pistol positions in order to have a place to discard broken or malfunctioning pistols.

I don't do it, really don't see an advantage. However, I'm not a Top Gun.

[Rancho Roy]

On 9/18/2023 at 2:58 PM, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said:

HI CR:
I believe you can put it on the table instead of re-holstering if it is the LAST GUN.
I believe the rule you quoted is if there is another gun after yer revolvers.
I also believe that you can put one revolver on the table, shoot the other one, and then holster them both before moving on to the next gun

--Dawg

Correct!

[Hoss]

21 hours ago, Assassin said:

It's funny how the "placing pistols on table" came to fruition. Tables were set at pistol positions in order to have a place to discard broken or malfunctioning pistols.

I don't do it, really don't see an advantage. However, I'm not a Top Gun.

First time I did it was kinda by accident. Pistols were staged to start. Pistols were last gun. As I shot first pistol, just laid it beside other pistol. I thought hmmmmm, that was easy! 
In general, when pistols are last, and there is a suitable table, I lay first pistol down, with left hand as I pick up 2nd pistol with right hand. 

[Assassin]

22 minutes ago, Hoss said:

First time I did it was kinda by accident. Pistols were staged to start. Pistols were last gun. As I shot first pistol, just laid it beside other pistol. I thought hmmmmm, that was easy! 
In general, when pistols are last, and there is a suitable table, I lay first pistol down, with left hand as I pick up 2nd pistol with right hand. 

First time I did it, and only time, my pistol spun around and broke the 170. The TO didn't see it, I did, and called a SDQ on myself.  I don't do anything slowly.