Black Powder Preference for .44 Cartridges (Mags/ Specials/ Colts/ Russians)? FFg or FFFg?

[RMGBHP]

I’ve been loading my various .44’s with FFFg (mostly Goex) and using my FFg for my .50 Longrifle. I notice on The Wire that some recommend FFg for .44’s. I’d be most interested in your experience and advice on the advantages and disadvantages of both powders. I shoot Mags and Specials in my Marlin 1894, and mostly Russians and a few Colts in my Open Top. Mostly shooting 200 grain NOE BP Bullets about 8 Brn cast from clipped wheel weights. Full FFFg Mag loads in my ‘94 are pretty warm, but not as warm as my Smokeless Hunting Rounds.
 

Thanks in advance for your input.

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

I like 44 Russians.

20 grains powder -- more than enuf for what we do.

Same thing is true for powder.
FFg or FFFg makes no difference, as we are aiming at targets 10-30 feet away.
I like FFFg for my capguns, but for pistol/rifle cartridges, it does not matter
--Dawg

Edited September 16 by Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

I load FFG in everything I shoot. For the distances and accuracy we have no need for the extra boom FFFG may provide. 

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

I ran ffg in my 44 and 45 rifle and pistol bullets for years, and ran fffg in my C&B pistols as it seemed to run cleaner. I now run fg in my cartridge rifles and pistols as my daughter likes the sparks out the front of her guns, just for fun. I have found no disadvantge to the fg, with maybe a bit less recoil. It does use less powder weight wise as the granules are larger. 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Well, here I am again.  Off a little sideways.  

 

NONE OF THE ABOVE   My smoky propellant of choice is APP.  For my Cap Gains, I like 3f.  For my Suppository Shooters, I also really prefer 3f.  A CAVEAT:  I Load on a DILLON 650 AND 2F APP doesn't meter well at all thru the powder measure.  3f meters well with just the occasional bridge.  For ALL BRASS 12Ga Shotgun, I load 2f.  I load 2F because I have a TON of the stuff.

 

APP also just happens to clean up easier than BP, way less fouling, and you can shoot any bullet, any lube, or no lube.  For the OP, I only load .44 Special and 44 Russian.  For either, I prefer 3F APP.  I'm no help for the BP part of your question. 

[Eyesa Horg]

I run FFFg in most everything, including muzzle loaders. I do use FFg in shotshells now and my 45-70. I feel FFFg burns cleaner and it for sure has more velocity in my muzzleloader. In my Hawken, I use 50gr and get 1500 fps, with FFg, I need to use 65gr. to get close. YMMV

[I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321]

I use FFg on all of mine.  Rifle, pistol and SG all the same.  All I use are real BP, nothing wrong with Subs, I just like the fire and smoke that goes with the real stuff

 

Edited September 16 by I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321

[RMGBHP]

Thanks to everyone for your input. I’m also interested in your thoughts on powder granulation preference from an accuracy standpoint. I’m looking for tight groups at a little more distance too. Maybe out to 100 yards with Mags and Specials through my 1894, and out to 25 yards with Russians through my Open Top. My Old Eyes can’t do much more with open sights. 
 

IM Crossdraw, that’s amazing! Wish I could move that fast!

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Just my opinion but I don't think granulation is going to make as much difference at those distances as the other factors - bullet size/weight/type, lube, compression.   

 

As for myself, I use 2F in 44/45 and 3F in .32/38, and 1F in 12gauge.  But I have used 3F in everything when that is what I had the most of, and for CAS I really didn't notice any difference.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

A dozen of one and a half dozen of the other. 

I used to shoot only Goex FFF .

I have switched to APP FFF or FF .

I really see no difference in Shotgun or Cartridge guns .

FFF only in Cap Guns .

The good thing with APP you can use the same bullets and lube you use on your smokeless loads .

Keeps everything easy peasy .

Rooster 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Either 2F or 3F will work just fine for this game.

[Savvy Jack]

you be the judge

 

[Chantry]

I use Hogdon 2F 777 in .44 cap & ball and , .38 Special and .44 Magnum.  Per Hogdon's Data:  https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/muzzleloading_manual_2008.pdf  a 30 gr charge of 2F 777 and a 200 gr bullet is very near the 1000 fps SASS limit.  3F 777 with the same charge and bullet will almost certainly be above the 1000 fps max and may make some match directors, who don't have AR500 steel targets, unhappy.

 

 

[RMGBHP]

Again, many thanks for everyone’s input. I always learn a lot on this Site, and get great advice whenever I have a question.

 

I’m planning to load some FFg next time out, but it doesn’t sound as though I’ll see much difference.

 

Savvy Jack and Chantry raise interesting points. Unfortunately, I don’t have great access here to shoot in an SASS format. More target shooting than SASS style, so I’m not necessarily bound to the 1,000 FPS rule. That said, I’d rather stay under 1,000 FPS with the soft lead bullets (8 BRN) I’m casting for my .44 Cartridges. I got to wondering about my charge weights.

 

My Powder Measures are Cartridges I’ve cut down for my .44 Russians, Specials, and Magnums. I cut them to allow me a consistent 1/16” to 3/32” compression when seating the NOE BP Bullets I cast and seat to the Bullet Groove. I threw and weighed my FFFg Goex for each Caliber, here’s what I came up with. On average I’m throwing 14.7 grains in my Russians, 21.3 grains in my Specials, and 26.0 grains in my Mags. Recently I’ve begun adding a 1/16” Lube Cookie to the Specials and Mags I shoot through my Marlin, so I’m getting a total 1/8” to 5/32” compression on the longer Rifle Cartridges. I have plenty of Lube for my Russians without a Cookie. 

 

I notice some of y’all are getting heavier charge weights than me. I start deforming my soft bullets if I compress too much more than I do. Would anyone recommend more compression? I might try water dropping my bullets to stop the deformation if y’all think I’m not compressing tightly enough?
 

Please let me know if anything I’m doing seems odd, or could be improved. I’m still learning.

 

Thanks again.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

While you asked about real black powder, some on this thread mentioned loading BP subs.  These should not be compressed much as manufacturers warn that excessive pressures may result.

[Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439]

On 9/16/2023 at 10:23 PM, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

A dozen of one and a half dozen of the other. 

I used to shoot only Goex FFF .

I have switched to APP FFF or FF .

I really see no difference in Shotgun or Cartridge guns .

FFF only in Cap Guns .

The good thing with APP you can use the same bullets and lube you use on your smokeless loads .

Keeps everything easy peasy .

Rooster 

Sorry Rooster, “6 to one, half dozen to the other” is how I think the phrase goes. At least that is how my Dad said it long ago, 6 = half dozen. Just FYI

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

3 hours ago, Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 said:

Sorry Rooster, “6 to one, half dozen to the other” is how I think the phrase goes. At least that is how my Dad said it long ago, 6 = half dozen. Just FYI

I think he was using gamer math. 

[Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439]

1 hour ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I think he was using gamer math. 

Well I definitely love his .44 spcl and Winchester rifle collection.