Robert Puckett Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 I'm having a problem seating a money bullet. The bullet is sized to .409. The case is expanded to .408 with a slight bell to start the bullet in. when I go to seat the bullet the seater plug damages the nose of the bullet. This happens with two different dies, a Redding competition die 40-65 and a RCBS cowboy seating die. I though with just .001 of tension this wouldn't happen but apparently I was wrong. The only solution I can think of is to use a larger diameter seater plug such as a .410 and hand seat the bullet then use a taper crimp to hold in place.I'm using 16-1 lead so its not really all that soft. What do all you reloaders recommend? Any all all help is appreciated. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Not using that caliber, but I do exactly that. I've ventured into the paper-patched bullet world with my 45-90 (yes, I know it's a .45x2.4) and expand large enough to hand seat my paper wrapped bullets then put a slight crimp on. I can still turn the bullets after and could probably pull them by hand if I wanted to. I'm sure Lumpy will chime in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Anneal the case neck. Expander die is under sized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Puckett Posted July 18 Author Share Posted July 18 Yes I anneal all my cases. I will order a larger mandrel. What size would you recommend for a .409 bullet? .410? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 If the seater stem is digging into the nose, then you need a stem that more closely fits the nose shape. Folk often take an extra stem, grease up a bullet and the body of the seating die, put some putty-type epoxy in the cavity of the nose, then press them together until the epoxy sets. Very important to grease up everything but the cavity of the stem! I've used J-B weld putty stick. As you say, with annealed case necks, one thou of neck tension ought to work for you. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 3 hours ago, Robert Puckett said: Yes I anneal all my cases. I will order a larger mandrel. What size would you recommend for a .409 bullet? .410? You want .001-.0015 neck tension on a grease groove bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uriah, SASS # 53822 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 I go with .459 -.461 (bell) out of Buffalo Arm .459 bullets I go with .379 expander for bullets .377 in my 38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 7 hours ago, Robert Puckett said: I'm having a problem seating a money bullet. The bullet is sized to .409. The case is expanded to .408 with a slight bell to start the bullet in. when I go to seat the bullet the seater plug damages the nose of the bullet. This happens with two different dies, a Redding competition die 40-65 and a RCBS cowboy seating die. I though with just .001 of tension this wouldn't happen but apparently I was wrong. The only solution I can think of is to use a larger diameter seater plug such as a .410 and hand seat the bullet then use a taper crimp to hold in place.I'm using 16-1 lead so its not really all that soft. What do all you reloaders recommend? Any all all help is appreciated. thanks Your seater plug doesn't fit the bullet nose. I usually order a custom seater plug when I order a mold. GJ gave you the cheap fix. Are the dimensions you're quoting actual sizes, or what it sez on your tooling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Puckett Posted July 18 Author Share Posted July 18 actual sizes. where did you order your custom seater plug. I just talked to Baco who made the mold they don't offer a custom plug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 38 minutes ago, Robert Puckett said: actual sizes. where did you order your custom seater plug. I just talked to Baco who made the mold they don't offer a custom plug I misspoke... I was thinking sizer plug, not seating die. But, RCBS & Lyman do make different seater plugs for different nose profiles. Not a great many, but I've found what I've needed when the standard seating plug is way outa whack. I've only had to do the J-B Weld trick with one bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Puckett Posted July 18 Author Share Posted July 18 Yes in speaking with Baco he is sending me the seater stem for the Lyman snover bullet. it is pretty close to the money bullet shape. I'll let you know how it works. If not I ordered a second seater stem for the Redding competition die that I'll do the JB weld fix on and if neither work I'll expand larger enough to hand seat them and then taper crimp. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uriah, SASS # 53822 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 https://www.buffaloarms.com/408-411-custom-expander-fo-van408411.html Expander .408 -.411 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungannon Gunner Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Call these folks and they can help you... https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search.aspx?search=expander Are you shooting these in a single shot with Black powder and lead-only non-jacketed? If yes to all, most BPCR shooters do NOT crimp and never resize if fireformed in the same gun that is ALWAYS used. More great resources http://www.texas-mac.com/Articles.html Also, best BPCR book ever for my purpose is by Not cheap at $45.00 Kenny Wasserburger 817 Glacier Dr Gillette, WY 82718 kwsharps@hotmail.com> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungannon Gunner Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 14 hours ago, Robert Puckett said: I'm having a problem seating a money bullet. The bullet is sized to .409. The case is expanded to .408 with a slight bell to start the bullet in. when I go to seat the bullet the seater plug damages the nose of the bullet. This happens with two different dies, a Redding competition die 40-65 and a RCBS cowboy seating die. I though with just .001 of tension this wouldn't happen but apparently I was wrong. The only solution I can think of is to use a larger diameter seater plug such as a .410 and hand seat the bullet then use a taper crimp to hold in place.I'm using 16-1 lead so its not really all that soft. What do all you reloaders recommend? Any all all help is appreciated. thanks Robert, Also, not sure how close you are to Friendship Indiana, but they have one of the best BPCR ranges/clubs in the USA https://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28968 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Spare seating stem & some JB Weld will fix you right up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Sheridan Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Maybe a dumb question, but are you compressing the load far enough before you seat the bullet, or are you compressing the load with the bullet? I use a compression die to set the depth of the charge and wad stack, then seat the bullet by hand down against the stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Puckett Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 12 hours ago, Dungannon Gunner said: Robert, Also, not sure how close you are to Friendship Indiana, but they have one of the best BPCR ranges/clubs in the USA https://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28968 I belong to the Ridgway Rifle Club. We held the lever action rifle national championships here a couple weeks ago. I shoot both lever action and single shot black powder. I use an 1885 highwall 40-65. and a Browning 1886 45-70 with reduced loads for lever action. Check out the club ridgwayrifleclub.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Puckett Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 2 hours ago, Buckshot Sheridan said: Maybe a dumb question, but are you compressing the load far enough before you seat the bullet, or are you compressing the load with the bullet? I use a compression die to set the depth of the charge and wad stack, then seat the bullet by hand down against the stack. Not a dumb question at all. Yes I'm using a compression die to set the depth. I have a larger mandrel coming so I'll be able to hand seat the bullet. Do you use a taper crimp to lightly crimp the case after seating the bullet? I'm right up against the lands and don't want the bullet pushed back any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 1 hour ago, Robert Puckett said: Not a dumb question at all. Yes I'm using a compression die to set the depth. I have a larger mandrel coming so I'll be able to hand seat the bullet. Do you use a taper crimp to lightly crimp the case after seating the bullet? I'm right up against the lands and don't want the bullet pushed back any further. Just 'bump' the cartridge in the size die a bit, to close the case mouth so it chambers easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uriah, SASS # 53822 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 6 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Just 'bump' the cartridge in the size die a bit, to close the case mouth so it chambers easily. I do this with the 38-50 Remington Hepburn. Tight chamber. I screw the sizing 1/2” away from the locking ring. The bullet readily moves within the 1st grease groove, but, stopping when it encounters lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 4 minutes ago, Uriah, SASS # 53822 said: I do this with the 38-50 Remington Hepburn. Tight chamber. I screw the sizing 1/2” away from the locking ring. The bullet readily moves within the 1st grease groove, but, stopping when it encounters lead. Try 1/4 turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Sheridan Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 10 hours ago, Robert Puckett said: Not a dumb question at all. Yes I'm using a compression die to set the depth. I have a larger mandrel coming so I'll be able to hand seat the bullet. Do you use a taper crimp to lightly crimp the case after seating the bullet? I'm right up against the lands and don't want the bullet pushed back any further. I don’t use any crimp. In my case I’m running a paper patch bullet that is patched to bore diameter. This allows the bullet to be well past the beginning of the rifling, and when fired the bullet upsets to fill the rifling. My sizing die brings the brass down to about .001 under chamber diameter. The combination of these results in a bullet that is seated by hand, but with enough resistance that it will hold in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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