Is a C&R 03 FFL worth it?

[Collier Kid]

Are there any guns people use that would qualify as a C&R that could be purchased with an 03 FFL? I'm still trying to get started and as cheaply as possible.

I know the 03FFL is pretty cheap and could save on purchase and transfer costs, I just did know if there was anything out there that would work for CAS that would fall under its purview. My guess is that if it qualifies it would probably either be in too poor of condition to be used for CAS or too expensive if it's in good condition. I know cheap and CAS don't really go well together but I would rather buy something cheap to get started and upgrade later than keep sitting on the sidelines.

 

Thank you for any input and suggestions. I've been to a few local matches and the Southwest Regional to check things out and can't wait to start shooting with everyone. It's a great group of people.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

It's worth it.

Any gun over 50 years old is automatically C&R.   That makes all non antique 1st Generation Colt SAA's eligible.  More than a few guns under the 50 year threshold are as well.  Most significantly for our game, all Second Generation SAA and New Frontier Colts, many of which are still under 50 years of age, are eligible.   Most Colt commemoratives, which are 2nd Gen anyway, are also specifically listed.  There are a couple of early 3rd Gen ones that are listed, but not a lot.   Another interesting tidbit, any Sheriff's model SAA, even one literally made last Tuesday, as long as it's a .44 or a .45.  Is C&R.   So is a brand new SAA with factory engraving and a letter to prove it.  (That last option is probably the most EXPENSIVE C&R gun you can get, but it's worth considering.)

And, you CAN find some decent bargains.  Probably not "new clone" cheap, but I did find, not 1, but 2 Colt Bisley's in .32-20 for $1100 and $1200  respectively.   By the same token, if you keep looking long enough, you will on occasion come across 1st or 2nd Gen Colts that are as ugly as sin, but are still mechanically sound shooters.   Or, they look really nice, but are refinished, which "ruins" their collector value and drives down their price.   Any pre-64 Winchester is C&R on the basis of age.  As are many shotguns that are useful in our game.  

Of all the guns I've bought since I started CAS, and just limiting the discussion to cowboy type guns, over half of them are C&R eligible firearms.   Just remember to use discretion when buy a 50+ year old firearm.

The convenience of having them mailed to your front door, or being able to walk into any gunshop in most of the country and walk out with your purchase, is also quite convenient.  Note:  "Most" means not a gunshop located in New York or New Jersey.  They MIGHT be willing to ship it to your home address, but they can't let you cash and carry.  I am not sure about California as far as cash and carry goes, but they can and will ship it to the address on your C&R.  All this I know from personal experience.

As far as other "bad" states go, I can't say, as I have not had the opportunity to find out.   A dealer in Massachusetts won't let you cash and carry as you probably don't have a Mass gun permit unless you live there, but they will ship out of state.  I live in Massachusetts, that's how I know.   Oh, and C&R guns, if you have the license, are exempt from many of Massachusetts' stupid laws.   Given how most CAS guns are not allowed to be sold here, this is a way you can get them.

Note though, that some dealers won't ship to a C&R in Massachusetts, and some won't even ship to one anywhere.   They are more than likely afraid of possible issues.   

So I say go for it.   But be prepared to start spending money if you do. 

 

[Seamus McGillicuddy]

In California it’s not very helpful unless you also obtain a state Certificate of Eligibility and even with that it’s only limited help. 
 

Seamus

[Doc Neeley]

97's, model 12's come to mind and as mentioned, most firearms over 50 years. Know state laws . Some states have prohibitions even on C&R age guns. Also, not all FFL will honor a 03 because they can't be verified on the NICS FFL-Check site.

[Cholla]

Keep in mind you need to keep detailed records of guns in and guns out in case the ATF decides to audit you.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

1 hour ago, Cholla said:

Keep in mind you need to keep detailed records of guns in and guns out in case the ATF decides to audit you.

And for heavens sake don’t use it to skirt becoming a 01 dealer. The guns you purchase are for your private collection.

[Hoss]

I’ve used mine a few times, to get eligible guns shipped directly to me. Worth it! 

[Itchy Trigger]

I've looked at it several times, but I don't want to open my collection (or keep all C&R guns in a separate specific room) for a federal inspection of my records and guns. It is unlikely, but it is possible! For $15 per gun, I would rather not deal with the headache.

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

I had one twenty years ago when I was collecting military surplus firearms. It was useful for the surplus sites around the country that specialized in those firearms. It was also nice having it registered with my LGS, and a local auction center that had monthly gun auctions. After the surplus market dried up, and my interest went to CAS, I only occasionaly had a use for it on gun purchases, and some sites like Brunell's & Midway did offer a dealer discount with it. Like others said you had to maintain a detailed log on any purchases made with it, and any sales you made even if the C & R firearm you sold was not purchased with it. In the end when it came time to renew mine back in 2018 I decided to let it go. I haven't missed it. If you are going  to use it for just a couple of purchases it's not worth it. If you are going into the collection market, and will be making a lot of purchases, then it's worth it. Just remember a lot of FFL businesses that advertise firearms on sites like Gun Broker won't accept an FFL 03 C & R.

[Grass Range]

Many shops now require 4473 completion on all firearms  regardless of age

[Eliphalet R. Moderator]

I''ve had one through 4 renewals.  So far have used it when purchasing a Winchester Model 1897, a Lee Enfield, and two revolvers, (pre-WWII).   Purchase a "bound book" and keep it up to date.   But, I haven't sold anything, so that parts easy.   All incoming, no outgoing.

[Big Horn Bari]

On 5/19/2023 at 1:16 PM, Seamus McGillicuddy said:

In California it’s not very helpful unless you also obtain a state Certificate of Eligibility and even with that it’s only limited help. 
 

Seamus

I've kept mine up to date here in California along with COE.  And as you mentioned there are a few limited CA related perks. 

 

• The ability to go out of state and bring back C&R firearms. 
• No 1 in 30 wait fo new guns (especially now that applies to long guns as well). 
• No 10 day wait for your C&R guns purchased in store. 
• Allows online ammo delivery to your door otherwise you need to have your order delivered to a licensed ammo dealer and requiresa background check to pick up.

[Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655]

On 5/19/2023 at 4:20 PM, Cholla said:

Keep in mind you need to keep detailed records of guns in and guns out in case the ATF decides to audit you.

99.999995% of mine only come in. Simplfies record keeping and much like not selling your kids to the gypies cuts way down on sellers remorse

[Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326]

It may also help you obtain discounts from gun supplies companies 

[John E. Law]

I'm an 07/SOT and I have a 03 C&R customer that when he has firearms shipped to him he goes through me. He said there is still to much hassle from other dealers about shipping directly to a 03C&R so he avoids it altogether. He still ships out with his C&R and will use it locally and at shows etc but for all of his shipped in items he just transfers through me. I love it. He's 60% of my bound book and all the stuff he gets is always very cool and very interesting. He's a writer that buys these old antiques and does a lot of research on these rare and unusual firearms and then writes articles and books about them. My favorite gun he's had shipped through me was a 1850s Lefaucheux 20 shot pin fire ammo pistol. It was just super cool!

 

JEL

Lefaucheux

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Here's another interesting perk,  Although you still have to go through the exact same hoops to purchase it and take possession, once all of that is done, if you happen to own a machine gun or other NFA firearm that is also C&R, you can cross state lines with it without asking the ATF for permission.

Not something I have bothered to do, but I have confirmed that this is indeed the case.