Model 1897 shotgun questions

[Gunleather, SASS #46543]

After over a decade of borrowing a 97 for Wild Bunch matches I’ve decided it’s time for me to go ahead and drop dime and add one to my gun safe; however I have a few questions

 

on gun broker there are more actual Winchester manufactured 97’s then copies. Given the same used condition which is better?

is there a bunch of gunsmith work that needs to be done to run one smoothly?  Not so much looking for speed but reliability. 
if there is a bunch of work that needs to be done who’s my best bet for doing the work?  
 

I will only be using this for Wild Bunch matches. My club only does about 4 or 5 a year so I need to be able to use it clean it and put it away for a while and still know it’ll work the next time. 
 Thanks 

Gunleather

 

[Lazy Eeyour]

I would replace this screw with a modern steel version.

https://the-online-outpost-licensing-corporation.myshopify.com/collections/shotgun/products/copy-of-1897-winchester-norinco-iac-shotgun-action-slide-hook-screw-by-the-smith-shop-97

Also the slide hook at the same time.

http://www.wisnersinc.com/model/12-1897-pump-action/   Wisners appear to be out of stock.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Depends on the gun.   Some are still very solid and work just fine as is.  Others have been used hard for over a hundred years and are worn.   Just look at them carefully when you find them.

Having your gunsmith give them a good going over is not a bad idea either.

And, in my humble opinion 30" full choke barrels are better than 20" no choke ones.

[Null N. Void]

Talk to a good ‘97 shooter.  They may have a line on a decent one and can help with checking it out.

[Snake-eye, SASS#45097]

Ask around at local club matches to see if anyone has one that would sell.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

55 minutes ago, Null N. Void said:

Talk to a good ‘97 shooter.  They may have a line on a decent one and can help with checking it out.

 

This is good advice ^^^^^.

 

Of those 97's that you have borrowed and used from your fellow club members,  have there been any

of those 97's that you liked or disliked?

Of those that you particularly liked, talk to the owner and ask them about their 97 and preferred 

gunsmith.   This might help you the most.

 

As for the IAC 97's,  a basic rule of thumb is to buy those of '06' or higher.

That means, the first two digits in the serial number start with 06 or higher (07, 08, 09 ..... and CB).

CB means its the CowBoy model which in my opinion, is one of their better series.

 

And as mentioned above, it always a good idea to have a good gunsmith check it out.

Sometimes, 'smooth' means its worn out to much, so be cautious.

 

On a side note:  Some IAC models of 03 and 04 series are great 97's.   Heck, I own a couple

of them that seem indestructible and I use them all the time.

But be careful in buying one of them.  

 

..........Widder

 

 

[Chantry]

Also consider parts availability.  I haven't looked in years, but the last time I did look, original Winchester 97 parts were easier to find than Chinese 97 parts.

[Outlaw Gambler]

on gun broker there are more actual Winchester manufactured 97’s then copies. Given the same used condition which is better? Be careful buying on gunbroker. You have to ask of questions as some of the sellers are not forthcomming with identifying problems with the item they are selling. There are so many things to consider when buying a used gun, on a 97 look for too much bolt travel up and down and sideways, does the action slide forward and back smoothly without sticking, if a take down does it function correctly, condition of the bore, does the action work as it should ie feed, extract, eject? These items are rarely posted on a gun advertised on gunbroker, or any other site, but you are told to ask questions.There are some good 97's and seller's on gunbroker. I will highly recommend "Lock, Stock & Barrel" as the best when it comes to quality and description and the company is owned by a long time CAS member. Generally speaking an IAC is better due to the newer steel. I will also advise you to stay away from other Chinese made 97's. An original Winchester is still a good gun and can be set up for wild bunch or cas. Nothing like shooting a piece of history.
is there a bunch of gunsmith work that needs to be done to run one smoothly?  It will depend on the gun. There is no set circumstance that an older one is better than a newer one and what needs to be done to one is not necessarily what the other will need. For wild bunch you will also want it to hold 6 shells in the mag tube. Usually when a 97 is set up for reliability the smoothness comes with it as well as better ejection.  

Not so much looking for speed but reliability. Speed is up to the shooter. In Widders words, practice, practice, practice.
  

[Outlaw Gambler]

If you need parts for Norinco?IAC parts, I have them.

[DeaconKC]

Since you said this is just for Wild Bunch can I suggest trying a Model 12. They are far more robust than the 97 and you can get good shooter condition ones reasonably.

[Gunleather, SASS #46543]

 Thank you for all your replies and comments. I bought the one I’ve been borrowing for the past ten years. There’s one modification I’m going to have done to it. I’ll post pictures then. 

["Big Boston"]

I'd like to address the comment on a good gunsmith for Winchester 1897 repairs. Off the beaten path, here in Canada, any gunsmith is hard to find, one that can work on a '97, even a harder search. I work on my own, the hardest part is learning what each part does, the next lesson is that on the older ones, a lot of the parts may have been hand fitted. Sometime swapping in another part doesn't work. 

 

But IMHO, if you can fix your own automatic transmission, working on your '97 should be do-able.

 

Even if you don't fix your own '97,  you should learn how it works. It's not that unusual to find a '97 with a couple of parts not working properly or broken, even in a working gun. 

[Turkey Flats Jack]

9 minutes ago, "Big Boston" said:

But IMHO, if you can fix your own automatic transmission, working on your '97 should be do-able

This had me laughing way to hard. So I now know not to take my 97 apart after the last (and only) time I tore into a transmission. 

[Eyesa Horg]

I've taken automatic transmissions out and put them back in without wrecking the input shaft seal, does that count?

[Widder, SASS #59054]

1 hour ago, Eyesa Horg said:

I've taken automatic transmissions out and put them back in without wrecking the input shaft seal, does that count?

 

Rumor has it that way back in around 1896 or 1897,  a feller found a box of metal parts behind 

a barn and decided to see if he could make hisowndangself something to give his daddy for

a B'day present.   Turned out to be a shotgun so they just named it the 1897, because

the box had 1897 pieces of 'stuff' in it.

 

Later, it was found out that box of 'parts' was some experimental parts used in the design 

of what is later named ..... 'transmission'.

 

Another historical true story!   A feller just can't make this stuff up.

 

..........Widder

 

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

The 97 is NOT a difficult firearm to disassemble, assemble or change parts on.

Where the 97 gets challenging is the interaction of all these parts and making them work together in harmony (on your specific firearm).

While troubleshooting, I have switched parts, firearm to firearm, known part for questionable part and had the ABSOLUTE STONE COLD RELIABLE part not work in the second gun.

Switch it back and the part is fine again - go the other way and put the questionable part in another gun and suddenly THAT part works fine.

 

These are the 97 gremlins that will drive you insane.

 

But it is kind of fun watching folks panic when you start taking a 97 apart - like they expect intestines and internal organs to fall out when you remove the carrier and bolt.

[Artemus Von Schutze]

Feel free to also ask this over on the Wild Bunch forum https://wildbunch.sassnet.com/

 

I shoot 97s for both cowboy and Wild Bunch. My preference is for the originals, but mostly out of feel. The clones stock is wider and it messes me up. If you get an original, get the 6 round conversion. Just pay attention to take down or solid frame. Don't discount the model 12 for wild bunch they are a good option as well. Great option if you can find one with a flag.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Outlaw Gambler

 

I just sent you a PM for an IAC '97 part.  I need the carrier pivot pin.  The '97 I just acquired has a broken pivot pin, needs replaced.  Hoping you have one or two you might turn loose of??

 

Coffinmaker

[Eyesa Horg]

Seems to be a popular part, Prairie Dawg is looking for one as well.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Way Back in the Wabac, when I still used '97s, my preference was original Winchester '97s.  Still is.  I preferred the "take down" guns and like a barrel length of 18 and a quarter inches.  For Wild Bunch you will also need a Magazine Spring and Follower kit to allow 6 in the Mag.