E.M.F. Great Western II

[Asa Smith]

Attended EOT this year, my first EOT ever.

One of the sponsors was EMF.

They donated and gave away several G.W. 2s as door prizes.

The amazing thing is, I won one!!!!

As a show of appreciation they ask me to fill out a post card with a few words of thanks.

That didn't seem enough.

I have now had the gun for several months and have loaned it out at a couple of shoots. The cowboys that borrowed it, loved it.

I have now cleaned it twice. The last cleaning I disassembled the gun completely.

 

This gun is a well made gun!

It has all the mods that make the old design work. 

Coil hand spring, Hardened bushing in the recoil shield, separate hardened cam on the hammer, that appears to be replaceable (should that ever be required), the cylinder pin is also the type that is made to stay stationary and not turn in the frame, even has a easily removable loading gate.

The gun remains true to the original design in that it has no transfer bar or internal safety and uses the firing pin in the hammer with 4 clicks.

It uses the tried and true extended cylinder pin that can be placed in the safe position.

All of the internal parts appear to be made to very close tolerances and have been timed/tuned to work very well right out of the box.

 

Is the finish of the machined parts up to the standard of a real Colt or the Standard Manufactured SAA? No.

(It has machine marks on the frame behind the loading gate and on the recoil shield where it meets the cylinder.)

Nothing that effects the function, the overall finish is beautiful!

 

In all the aspects that make a gun run, and at a fraction of the price, it is well worth the money!

 

I would highly recommend this gun to anyone...new to the sport or not!

 

Thank You E.M.F. for your sponsorship of this game!

 

My 2 cents,

Asa Smith

[Ranger Dan]

My better half shoots EMF Pietta Californians. I bought her a set of SASS Vaqueros, she prefers the Piettas.

[Fretless]

I've been very happy with my Piettas, and like you said, they were ready to run straight out of the box.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

"the cylinder pin is also the type that is made to stay stationary and not turn in the frame"

 

I absolutely hate this design!  First thing I did with my Pietta was replace it with an Uberti pin.  Otherwise, yes, excellent gun!

 

[BenW]

I'm using a pair of GW II's for my cowboy guns and I think they're great!  Felt tuned and ready to go right out of the box.  Great guns, Pietta has really upped their game in recent years.

[Major Crimes]

I tried to get these in Australia but the Pietta importer wont bring them in

[Dantankerous]

First of... congrats on the win! Always makes a trip better.

 

Second, thanks for the review on the gun. It was worth more than 2 cents.

 

I'd love to see this piece at a match sometime... been curious about them myself.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Some of us Current and Retired gunplumbers consider the Pietta built Great Western II to be the best Value for Dollar for CAS.  Or for just piddling with SA Replicants.  Really good guns.  After you cut the last 3/16 off the Base Pin and dress it, no need for a Uberti (yech) Base Pin.

[Major Hazzard, SASS #23254]

On 5/10/2023 at 8:46 AM, Asa Smith said:

Attended EOT this year, my first EOT ever.

One of the sponsors was EMF.

They donated and gave away several G.W. 2s as door prizes.

The amazing thing is, I won one!!!!

As a show of appreciation they ask me to fill out a post card with a few words of thanks.

That didn't seem enough.

I have now had the gun for several months and have loaned it out at a couple of shoots. The cowboys that borrowed it, loved it.

I have now cleaned it twice. The last cleaning I disassembled the gun completely.

 

This gun is a well made gun!

It has all the mods that make the old design work. 

Coil hand spring, Hardened bushing in the recoil shield, separate hardened cam on the hammer, that appears to be replaceable (should that ever be required), the cylinder pin is also the type that is made to stay stationary and not turn in the frame, even has a easily removable loading gate.

The gun remains true to the original design in that it has no transfer bar or internal safety and uses the firing pin in the hammer with 4 clicks.

It uses the tried and true extended cylinder pin that can be placed in the safe position.

All of the internal parts appear to be made to very close tolerances and have been timed/tuned to work very well right out of the box.

 

Is the finish of the machined parts up to the standard of a real Colt or the Standard Manufactured SAA? No.

(It has machine marks on the frame behind the loading gate and on the recoil shield were it meets the cylinder.)

Nothing that effects the function, the overall finish is beautiful!

 

In all the aspects that make a gun run, and at a fraction of the price, it is well worth the money!

 

I would highly recommend this gun to anyone...new to the sport or not!

 

Thank You E.M.F. for your sponsorship of this game!

 

My 2 cents,

Asa Smith

Here about a month ago I'd given up on finding a GW 2,  so I bought a Cimarron Frontier, 5.5" in .45 Colt.  Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the GW2 and the Frontier are in every meaningful way the same gun.  This specimen matched your description in every respect, except unfortunately mine had some timing issues I couldn't live with.  Two Chambers would just not lock up, easily slipped out of battery with very modest torque applied by hand, with hammer fully down or fully cocked.  Cimarron sent me a return label, they've had the gun three weeks now.  I'm looking forward to it coming back. Beautiful gun, well worth the money even with this little hiccup. 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

51 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

Some of us Current and Retired gunplumbers consider the Pietta built Great Western II to be the best Value for Dollar for CAS.  Or for just piddling with SA Replicants.  Really good guns.  After you cut the last 3/16 off the Base Pin and dress it, no need for a Uberti (yech) Base Pin.

What I hate about the base pin is not the length.  That is easily addressed.  The locking grooves on only one side of the pin are what make it a P.I.A. to install correctly.  Same style as the Uberti Lighting/P-Jr/Stallion base pins. (Yech).  

[Asa Smith]

On 5/10/2023 at 9:53 AM, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

"the cylinder pin is also the type that is made to stay stationary and not turn in the frame"

 

I absolutely hate this design!  First thing I did with my Pietta was replace it with an Uberti pin.  Otherwise, yes, excellent gun!

 

I believe (someone can correct me if i'm wrong) the stationary "locked" base pin is so that it makes the cylinder rotate on the pin rather than allowing the pin to rotate in the frame of the gun and cause wear on the frame. The bearing surface on the pin going through the cylinder is a much larger area than the bearing surface in the frame. My limited experience has been that the non-rotating pin stays put and will not work its way out, as sometime happens.

I agree it can be a bit frustrating getting the pin lined up.

I shortened the pin as well to make easier to install in correct location.

I like the pin safety because it is easily corrected and it makes the lawyers and politicians happy and doesn't involve complicated internal changes.

1 hour ago, Major Hazzard, SASS #23254 said:

Here about a month ago I'd given up on finding a GW 2,  so I bought a Cimarron Frontier, 5.5" in .45 Colt.  Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the GW2 and the Frontier are in every meaningful way the same gun.  This specimen matched your description in every respect, except unfortunately mine had some timing issues I couldn't live with.  Two Chambers would just not lock up, easily slipped out of battery with very modest torque applied by hand, with hammer fully down or fully cocked.  Cimarron sent me a return label, they've had the gun three weeks now.  I'm looking forward to it coming back. Beautiful gun, well worth the money even with this little hiccup. 

Again not sure, but i believe the Frontier is make by Uberti (another fine company) and does not have the removable cam in the hammer, the bushing in the recoil shield and the above discussed "locked" base pin. Still another good gun at an affordable price....

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

19 minutes ago, Asa Smith said:

I believe (someone can correct me if i'm wrong) the stationary "locked" base pin is so that it makes the cylinder rotate on the pin rather than allowing the pin to rotate in the frame of the gun and cause wear on the frame. The bearing surface on the pin going through the cylinder is a much larger area than the bearing surface in the frame. My limited experience has been that the non-rotating pin stays put and will not work its way out, as sometime happens.

I agree it can be a bit frustrating getting the pin lined up.

I shortened the pin as well to make easier to install in correct location.

I like the pin safety because it is easily corrected and it makes the lawyers and politicians happy and doesn't involve complicated internal changes.

I have read more than once that the original design of the SAA is such that the base pin should be able to rotate in the frame.  This gives the gun one more bearing to turn to prevent locking up from fouling.  It will generally not turn much if any unless the cylinder and bushing are both fouled, and in that case you would want it to turn.  On these guns with modern steel, the holes in the frame are pretty unlikely to get worn out from a rotating cylinder pin.  On my Colts and my Ubertis, some of the pins can be turned with the fingers, some cannot.  I've never had a base pin jump forward in any gun.  If the cross-latch spring is not weak and the latch is properly in place, it should not come loose.

19 minutes ago, Asa Smith said:

Again not sure, but i believe the Frontier is make by Uberti (another fine company) and does not have the removable cam in the hammer, the bushing in the recoil shield and the above discussed "locked" base pin. Still another good gun at an affordable price....

Cimarron's Frontier line is their name for their Pietta pistols.  To complicate matters, though, they do use the word Frontier on a few of the Ubertis.  One way to know for sure, the model number of any of their Pietta pistols will always start with PP.

[Major Hazzard, SASS #23254]

3 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I have read more than once that the original design of the SAA is such that the base pin should be able to rotate in the frame.  This gives the gun one more bearing to turn to prevent locking up from fouling.  It will generally not turn much if any unless the cylinder and bushing are both fouled, and in that case you would want it to turn.  On these guns with modern steel, the holes in the frame are pretty unlikely to get worn out from a rotating cylinder pin.  On my Colts and my Ubertis, some of the pins can be turned with the fingers, some cannot.  I've never had a base pin jump forward in any gun.  If the cross-latch spring is not weak and the latch is properly in place, it should not come loose.

Cimarron's Frontier line is their name for their Pietta pistols.  To complicate matters, though, they do use the word Frontier on a few of the Ubertis.  One way to know for sure, the model number of any of their Pietta pistols will always start with PP.

Correct, sir.  In this case, it's PP411.  Pre-war frame 5.5" in .45 Colt. Again, identical to the GW2 in every meaningful way.  

[Go West]

I have a set of early Pietta's labeled Charles Daly. They still look and shoot great, probably 15-18 years old.

[Griff]

I bought an Armi San Marco 1851 from EMF in 1986.  It's been regulated to one of my back ups in recent years, but still a very fine revolver after being made "bullet-proof" by Lee's Gunsmithing.  I also shoot one of the 1st 5 1873 Sporting Rifles imported from Uberti in 45 Colt in 1986,  I also have the last 45 Colt rifle imported also... a steel framed 1860 Henry.  I've been the lucky recipient of several EMF guns presented as door prizes or raffles at various cowboy action matches.  Boyd Davis, aka General Grant (RIP), owner/founder of EMF was an original member of the Wild Bunch and a very early participant in cowboy matches going back to the days prior to the formation of SASS, and was a very enthusiastic supporter of matches.  I'm pleased to hear they still maintain that support.  

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Just as an aside, or an FYI if your will, the slightly longer two position Cylinder Base Pin has nada to do with the Lawyers.  Imported SA revolvers have to pass a "Drop Test" where the gun is dropped from a specific height directly onto it's hammer.  Must NOT fire.  Now, Why or who at Pietta came up with that non-rotating Base Pin is a mystery.  Also stupid.  The original design was to provide for rotation of the cylinder even with fouling present.  Cylinder rotates on the Bushing, Bushing rotates on the Base Pin (if needs be).  Way Back inna Wabac (thank you Sherman and the Professor), Colt was never concerned with the base pin wearing the frame.  It was never conceived an SAA would ever be fired enough to wear the frame. 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

2 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

Just as an aside, or an FYI if your will, the slightly longer two position Cylinder Base Pin has nada to do with the Lawyers.  Imported SA revolvers have to pass a "Drop Test" where the gun is dropped from a specific height directly onto it's hammer.  Must NOT fire.  Now, Why or who at Pietta came up with that non-rotating Base Pin is a mystery.  Also stupid.  The original design was to provide for rotation of the cylinder even with fouling present.  Cylinder rotates on the Bushing, Bushing rotates on the Base Pin (if needs be).  Way Back inna Wabac (thank you Sherman and the Professor), Colt was never concerned with the base pin wearing the frame.  It was never conceived an SAA would ever be fired enough to wear the frame. 

This import safety requirement also required said safety to be able to be engaged by hand (or something like that) without additional tools. That is why the BP-frame SAA repros come with a thumbscrew.  Opentops used to come with a tiny screwdriver that could be used to fold out the hammer block in the hammer, but I don't know that they still do that  

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

14 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

This import safety requirement also required said safety to be able to be engaged by hand (or something like that) without additional tools. That is why the BP-frame SAA repros come with a thumbscrew.  Opentops used to come with a tiny screwdriver that could be used to fold out the hammer block in the hammer, but I don't know that they still do that  

My Uberti 1872 Open Tops did not come with a screwdriver. I finally took care of those pesky hammer blocks with some JB Weld. Those %#*s would self-deploy at the most inopportune time. 

[Major Hazzard, SASS #23254]

On 5/11/2023 at 9:22 AM, Major Hazzard, SASS #23254 said:

Here about a month ago I'd given up on finding a GW 2,  so I bought a Cimarron Frontier, 5.5" in .45 Colt.  Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the GW2 and the Frontier are in every meaningful way the same gun.  This specimen matched your description in every respect, except unfortunately mine had some timing issues I couldn't live with.  Two Chambers would just not lock up, easily slipped out of battery with very modest torque applied by hand, with hammer fully down or fully cocked.  Cimarron sent me a return label, they've had the gun three weeks now.  I'm looking forward to it coming back. Beautiful gun, well worth the money even with this little hiccup. 

Since nobody asked, I thought I'd close out this bit of commentary.  All in all it took 63 days for that revolver to make its round trip back to my front door.  I should correct my error wherein I stated two chambers would not lock up; it was actually three.  At any rate, it's back and functions correctly now.  A hand written note enclosed in the box stated the hand and bolt were replaced and "timing adjusted".  Seems to be fine now.  Every chamber locks up tight, hammer up or down.  Trigger is heavy but breaks very clean.  Again, it's a beautiful piece and I sure wouldn't mind a 7.5" just like it!

[BenW]

I'm running a brace of GW II's in .357 for SASS Comp.  Love 'em!  Great right out of the box with light springs and everything.  I happily endorse them.  I got mine from Davidson's... was a specialty model with nickel backstrap and solid blue overall.  I sort of miss the color case coloring but the savings made that disappear pretty quickly.  Really nice guns, and well made.  

[Dantankerous]

The EMF Pietta guns have my attention. 
 

A LGS just posted he has a new GWII Gunfighter in 45 Colt priced at $450. Seems like a decent price. 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Keeping it going >

 

Just a little piece of history.  Way Back inna Wabac (thank you Sherman and the Professor), Boyd Davis was looking for a replacement for the original "Great Western."  He put out a request and one of his conditions, was a half dozen guns, disassembled and the parts tossed inna box and Shaken, not Stirred.  Then parts select at random, the guns reassembled and had to function.  Uberti failed the test.  Pietta did not.  Boyd David selected Pietta and the rest is great history.  The Pietta guns, Abilene's complaint aside, have only had one problem.  The occasion of the bolt failing to fit the Cylinder Notches.  Easily corrected and most prevalent  in their Percussion Guns.  I and bunch of other Gunplumbers I communed with, consider the Great Western II to be the best value for dollar in Single Action reproductions.  Pietta has thought succeeding years, only improved the original gun.  The new build Pietta also include one of the BEST Main Springs and Trigger/Bolt Springs available.  There just isn't much to improve, frankly.

 

After the Passing of Boy Davis, when EMF got into dire straights, Pietta bought EMF and have kept EMF alive and well.

 

Oh, and PLUS ONE for Pettifogger you betcha.

[Diamond Jake]

On 5/11/2023 at 7:27 PM, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

.. The original design was to provide for rotation of the cylinder even with fouling present.  Cylinder rotates on the Bushing, Bushing rotates on the Base Pin (if needs be).  ... 

I agree on the original design, and that's how it works on my Ubertis.  However, I have 4 Pietta GW IIs, and all of them seem to have permanently pressed bushing in the cylinder.  The cylinder can't rotate on the bushing, it must rotate on the pin. Do I have defective guns, or do the current Pietta clones have fixed bushings in the cylinders?  

 

(Two of mine are used guns made in 2014, and the other two were purchased new, built in 2021.)

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

The Bushings should rotate in the cylinders.  They may need to be punched out and polished.  Check the back of the cylinder to see if there is a juncture showing where the bushing is a separate part.

[July Smith]

The bushings in my GW2s are fixed or "pressed" in.  Come to think of it, the majority of my actual Colts have fixed bushings as well.   

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

I just checked my only Pietta, a Cimarron Frontier.  Bushing is removeable, but not by hand.  Had to punch it out from the rear about 1/4" or so before I could pull it out with my fingers.  It would need to be polished to rotate freely in the cylinder.

[July Smith]

15 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I just checked my only Pietta, a Cimarron Frontier.  Bushing is removeable, but not by hand.  Had to punch it out from the rear about 1/4" or so before I could pull it out with my fingers.  It would need to be polished to rotate freely in the cylinder.

On the subject of binding does a removable bushing really help?  In practice I have shot many of my sass revolvers to the point of failure with black powder.  No cleaning, no spritzing will ballistol and no adding extra lube, just keep loading and firing until the gun gets sticky.  Usually happens around 30-40 rounds depending on humidity levels and differences in a individual gun.  I have never noticed the bushing making a difference.  In fact even on the guns with removable bushings that part is pretty well seized up in the cylinder after a days shooting and requires a soak in ballistol before I can remove it.    

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

I've shot a lot of BP in my 3rd Gen 44 Spcl Colts, which do not have a removable bushing.  Never had any binding problems.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

That removable, rotating bushing was included by Colt at the behest of the U.S. Army.  Not that the army ever fired their Hand Guns enough in service to foul out.

 

The Bushings on Colt and Pietta are suppose to be removable.  Look at the back of the cylinder and the line of the bushing can be seen.  The Bushing needs pushed out with correct sized punch and polished to rotate freely with a little oil.

[Griff]

Early 3rd Gen Colt SAAs don't have a removeable cylinder bushing.  Since the one I've had the longest got rebuilt, it got a new cylinder & removeable bushing.  But, neither has had binding problems with BP.  I used them in Frontier Cartridge from the time the old "Black Powder" category was dropped until the emergence of "Frontiersman".   If you're binding a Colt SAA, you're probably skimping on lube or using the wrong type.  There's a direct correlation between binding and sufficient lube.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I bought me the Piettia Del Rio delx 45 .

I thought it was a very amazing built Italian Colt clone .

Far better then all the Uberti clones I have ever owned.