Pat Riot Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Yesterday I finally put my hands on 2 Ruger SFAR AR based long guns. My FGS (favorite gun store) had one of each model, the 16” and the 20” barrel. I was impressed with the weight and balance of the 16” and the extra 4” of barrel on the 20” really didn’t put much weight at all towards the front of the gun. I liked everything about them until I went to pull the charging handle back and then it hit me. This is the one thing I truly dislike on AR-15s. The charging handle. Not just the one on the SFAR, which would be too narrow with a scope mounted, but in general, I don’t like them. I don’t like the way they operate. I don’t like the actions needed to charge the weapon. Weird. That thought hit me like an epiphany. I hate the way the bolt is cycled on ARs. On my way home I had a discussion with myself. I have decided that I need to rethink my want list and evaluate exactly why it is I really want this, or any other gun on my list. Other than the charging handle I thought the guns were both very nice. I may still get one but my desire to acquire one is definitely diminished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bob Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 The new Sig has a side charging handle. But it’s also $4000 and made of unobtanium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Look at the Springfield Tanker or Socom 16 for a .308. You have options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 I like these type charging handles, just slap it back with your off hand. I also have a side charger, I like it better than stock. https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-ambidextrous-charging-handle-5-56mm-223-mod-3x3-large-latches/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Gun Jimmy Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said: Yesterday I finally put my hands on 2 Ruger SFAR AR based long guns. My FGS (favorite gun store) had one of each model, the 16” and the 20” barrel. I was impressed with the weight and balance of the 16” and the extra 4” of barrel on the 20” really didn’t put much weight at all towards the front of the gun. I liked everything about them until I went to pull the charging handle back and then it hit me. This is the one thing I truly dislike on AR-15s. The charging handle. Not just the one on the SFAR, which would be too narrow with a scope mounted, but in general, I don’t like them. I don’t like the way they operate. I don’t like the actions needed to charge the weapon. Weird. That thought hit me like an epiphany. I hate the way the bolt is cycled on ARs. On my way home I had a discussion with myself. I have decided that I need to rethink my want list and evaluate exactly why it is I really want this, or any other gun on my list. Other than the charging handle I thought the guns were both very nice. I may still get one but my desire to acquire one is definitely diminished. Foxtrot Mike. Side charging AR. Kinda AR meets HK meets AK. They seem to be built well and seem to be a good company. They were next on my list to buy, but I got into cowboy so my "next" list has been set back in time about 150 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bob Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 HK 91, FAL, Scar heavy are some other options. It’s honestly never bothered me on a AR 15 or 10 and you generally only use it once during the shooting session. And as Crooked River Pete has stated there are aftermarket options which increase the ease of use . Personally I think the POF/Ruger are the chit for a 308 semi auto, light weight for the category, accurate and with AR ergonomics. My POF has a over sized one that operates from either side https://www.primaryarms.com/p.o.f-tomahawk-ambidextrous-charging-handle-ar-15-pof00849 Mine is scoped and I have no issues loading it, does this make you want to sell your AR ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted May 9, 2023 Author Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 said: I like these type charging handles, just slap it back with your off hand. I also have a side charger, I like it better than stock. https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-ambidextrous-charging-handle-5-56mm-223-mod-3x3-large-latches/ These are the charging handles I have used on my other AR-15s in the past. Honestly Pards, if I buy a semi-auto .308 it will be the Ruger SFAR or an M1A, provided I could come up with a couple of grand. The .308 Winchester is my main interest in a semiauto and having a scope on it. I have an M1 chambered in .308. Love that rifle! I have considered putting a scout scope mount in that and dropping the idea of the SFAR. The mounts: http://www.amegamounts.com/product_pages/m1garand.php https://ultimak.com/product/m12/ For some reason I am not real keen on scoping the M1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Look at Bear Creek Arsenal also. I'm thinking of getting a .243 AR10 from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted May 9, 2023 Author Share Posted May 9, 2023 I have decided to go back to my gun store and work a deal to buy the Ruger SFAR. These are the first two I have seen since they came out. I can get over the charging system. It’s more of a self training issue than anything else. I just need to decide on 16” or 20”…or if one is gone, buy the one that’s left. Thank you all for your suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bob Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said: For some reason I am not real keen on scoping the M1. I feel the same. There’s just not a great way to do it. Same with a Winchester 94, if a wanted to scope a lever gun a would go with a Marlin. I know a couple people that have liked the scout scope set up but it’s just never been my thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted May 9, 2023 Author Share Posted May 9, 2023 23 minutes ago, Buckshot Bob said: I feel the same. There’s just not a great way to do it. Same with a Winchester 94, if a wanted to scope a lever gun a would go with a Marlin. I know a couple people that have liked the scout scope set up but it’s just never been my thing If I ever get to the point that I can’t use peep sights then maybe I would try it. The mounts that I have found do not require any modification to the gun. The M1 wasn’t meant for a scope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said: If I ever get to the point that I can’t use peep sights then maybe I would try it. The mounts that I have found do not require any modification to the gun. The M1 wasn’t meant for a scope. I have to agree. I don't like scopes, and I don't shoot at ranges that might necessitate one. If I was hunting or trying to make some "precision" shot, MAYBE. Otherwise no thanks. I made most of my 500 yard shots with an M16 in The Corps, so I think that I could manage. I do wish that gun makers would put sights on their rifles. So many assume that the shooter is going to scope it. With handguns now coming with Red Dot type sights on them, I wonder how long it will be until THEY don't come with iron sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Pat, I have come to same need, I want a SFAR. Have wanted an AR-10 for years. A month or so ago, the LGS had both S&W M&P-10 and the Ruger SFAR in stock and on ad. Of course now that a bonus came through and I finally had cash in hand, they are both sold out. Maybe they will come back in stock before that free money (bonuses are considered free money) gets spent on something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 One thing I have learned about "side" charger AR15 or AR10 rifles is if the bolt is locked open, and you are going to close it with the bolt release, keep your left fingers lower than where the charging handle is going to slam forward. If you don't, you will bleed and need a bandaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Mini-30 Imis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 said: Mini-30 Imis .308 Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Got a mini 30. Lots of fun. Still want a 308! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 7 hours ago, Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 said: Got a mini 30. Lots of fun. Still want a 308! 8 hours ago, Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 said: Mini-30 Imis Please do not think I am trying to be insulting here. I am not. I am just being honest. To me Mini 14s and Mini 30s are like AK-47s. In stock form they feel “off” to me. It’s like they were designed for the 1947 European male standard of 5’7” & 147 pounds. I have never cared for them. Also, I honestly don’t have a lot of respect for the 5.56 / .223 and 7.63x39 rounds. They have never impressed me. When I was a kid we had a neighbor that hunted coyotes. He used a new bolt action rifle chambered in “wildcat” .223 with soft point bullets. He hand loaded his own. I have no idea what .223 ammo was available in 1971 for civilians. When I was in the Navy we used M14s chambered in 7.62x52 (.308W). I remember the day we were at Quarters and our Division Officer was telling us that our ship was to receive a couple of M16s for evaluation of transitioning from M14s to M16s. I recall our Gunnery Chief saying “This is the Navy. We don’t need no f****** poodle shooters aboard this ship, Sir!” I immediately recalled Gene, my old neighbor and his coyote hunting. The term “poodle shooter” has stuck with me ever since. Yep, I learned my bias at a young age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 6:40 AM, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said: Yesterday I finally put my hands on 2 Ruger SFAR AR based long guns. My FGS (favorite gun store) had one of each model, the 16” and the 20” barrel. I was impressed with the weight and balance of the 16” and the extra 4” of barrel on the 20” really didn’t put much weight at all towards the front of the gun. I liked everything about them until I went to pull the charging handle back and then it hit me. This is the one thing I truly dislike on AR-15s. The charging handle. Not just the one on the SFAR, which would be too narrow with a scope mounted, but in general, I don’t like them. I don’t like the way they operate. I don’t like the actions needed to charge the weapon. Weird. That thought hit me like an epiphany. I hate the way the bolt is cycled on ARs. On my way home I had a discussion with myself. I have decided that I need to rethink my want list and evaluate exactly why it is I really want this, or any other gun on my list. Other than the charging handle I thought the guns were both very nice. I may still get one but my desire to acquire one is definitely diminished. Thank you for sharing that, Pat. I appreciate you not liking the SFAR because it means there's one more (or two, LOL) available for sale which increases my chances for getting one just a tad. Thanks! I pretty much grew up with AR's. Yes the HK is a better platform (HK91,93) and so is the FNFal or L1a1. as far as some charging manipulations go. Maybe it's because I've been doing it a long time, being left-handed running an AR platform really doesn't bother me. The faceful of crap I get from the ejection port isn't really a bother, unless I forget my glasses LOL. I can't simply pinch the charging handle and cycle, I gotta reach OVER. Either movement requires me to break hold/position on the weapon. I can make it work with the factory style but I generally use an ambi extended style like what's from BCM. I have one that's a little smaller and latchless, works both sides but doesn't give much to grab on which isn't a big deal because A. I prefer not to have sticky-outie things on my carry guns and B. that only sucks if you get a bolt-over-round/above-the-charging-handle stoppage. Those suck. Anyway, there's things you can do to make it more suitable. In last month;s American Rifleman there was a really good writeup about these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 4 hours ago, Dubious Don #56333 said: Thank you for sharing that, Pat. I appreciate you not liking the SFAR because it means there's one more (or two, LOL) available for sale which increases my chances for getting one just a tad. Thanks! Ha…Bought One! I went to my FGS and bought the 16” Ruger SFAR. $979 out the door. Now I need some scope rings to mount my Leupold Compact Vari-X. I have a set of Diamondhead back up sights for it already. What a sexy little beast. I can’t wait to shoot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bob Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Congratulations, I hope you like it as well as I like my POF . I really feel like this is the sweet spot for a 308 semi rifle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Nice! Of course you know that looks a bit different than the version I can get here... at least it is "featureless" so the mag release works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 said: Nice! Of course you know that looks a bit different than the version I can get here... at least it is "featureless" so the mag release works. I am glad you could buy one there. That grip looks odd but I’ll bet it’s pretty comfortable when firing. Is the butt stock pinned? How do you like that muzzle brake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Pat, They had them at the LGS, but when I went back to get it they were out (and still are), but as soon as they are back in stock I will get it. Of course once I had cash in hand they were out, that is always the way. Didn't even get to fondle it. Once I get some rounds down range I will decide if I need to replace the grip with a Thordson stock. Looking forward to hearing your range report once you get to try out yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bob Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 7 minutes ago, Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 said: Pat, They had them at the LGS, but when I went back to get it they were out (and still are), but as soon as they are back in stock I will get it. Of course once I had cash in hand they were out, that is always the way. Didn't even get to fondle it. Once I get some rounds down range I will decide if I need to replace the grip with a Thordson stock. Looking forward to hearing your range report once you get to try out yours. With the correct court decisions hopefully some day you’ll get to replace it with a standard pistol grip and buttstock . Along with a 25 round magazine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 39 minutes ago, Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 said: Looking forward to hearing your range report once you get to try out yours. Will do. I looked for one of these Rugers since I moved to WV. Every time I asked at a store I would either hear “We haven’t seen any yet” or “We just sold the only one we had yesterday”. The first ones I saw were the 2 at my FGS (favorite gun store) Monday. When I went today to buy it, after having a big debate on 20” vs 16” barrels, I asked if they had others besides the display models and they did. I got a new in box one. I really don’t like buying a brand new gun after others have messed with them. I plan to shoot it Friday morning, weather permitting. It’s supposed to rain. If it’s not storming I will go shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Bob, Mags over 10 rounds are not illegal to own, only to buy, sell, lend, borrow, import, etc. As long as the Rifle isn't listed as a "California Assault Weapon", which the featureless rifles are not, regular capacity mags are allowed as long as you already own them legally. Thanks to a week long relaxation of the law a few years ago, a lot of mags were bought in a short time, even some with the hopes of someday getting a gun to use them. Of course these days who can afford to fully load full capacity mags anyways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 said: They had them at the LGS, but when I went back to get it they were out (and still are), but as soon as they are back in stock I will get it. Of course once I had cash in hand they were out, that is always the way. Have you checked Rifle Supply in Huntington Beach? Also Ammo Bros might be a good source too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Thanks Pat, hadn't thought of Ammo Bros. Dont get over there very often. Never been to Rifle Supply, I will check them out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bob Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Looks like you got a great deal CDNN usually has some decent prices https://www.cdnnsports.com/rugerr-sfrtm-308-16in.html?trk_msg=I66JFF1C470KT349C2LF9SLPJ4&trk_contact=DACUDJLCAAMMDIT0JO71AVJR3C&trk_sid=A1KVDE3A6D5EDU9VA9GF8HBRU0&trk_link=UFJ7FNFFNMH4N6KI34PQ9F25ES&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.cdnnsports.com%2frugerr-sfrtm-308-16in.html&utm_campaign=Ruger+Guns+%26+Mags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bob Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Maybe you’re one of those guys with a deal too good to be true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 28 minutes ago, Buckshot Bob said: Maybe you’re one of those guys with a deal too good to be true Who? I will say my FGS does have some darn good prices on some of their guns. Not so much on ammo and revolvers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 4 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said: Ha…Bought One! I went to my FGS and bought the 16” Ruger SFAR. $979 out the door. Now I need some scope rings to mount my Leupold Compact Vari-X. I have a set of Diamondhead back up sights for it already. What a sexy little beast. I can’t wait to shoot it. I should have set my watch! I KNEW you would get one. I like the 20" better though but I'll still shoot that one when you offer. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted May 11, 2023 Author Share Posted May 11, 2023 27 minutes ago, Michigan Slim said: I should have set my watch! I KNEW you would get one. I like the 20" better though but I'll still shoot that one when you offer. LOL Let me get her set up then come on over. I seriously considered the 20”, but after I handled them I chose the 16” because of the balance but also because the 1/2 pound more that the 20” weighs is all at the end of the barrel. I have no cartilage in my left shoulder. When shooting offhand it really bugs me sometimes, especially a muzzle heavy rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 12:07 PM, Michigan Slim said: Look at Bear Creek Arsenal also. I'm thinking of getting a .243 AR10 from them. Do your homework when it comes to an AR-10 in 243. It's been a few years but when I was considering one my research revealed they were very picky about ammo. Every time you changed the load the gas system needed to be re-calibrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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