Changed out my Rossi 92 ejector spring, now it's not catching the case rims

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

***Edited the tread title to fix my mistake of using the wrong word, the original title was:

Changed out my Rossi 92 extractor spring, now it's not catching the case rims

This lead to confusion and I edited my post, but for anyone coming in late the corrections may make the tread read disjointedly, my apologies for the confusion ***

 

 

So first and foremost, yes, as @Abilene, SASS # 27489 suggested, I searched using:

"site:sassnet.com Rossi 92 extractor ejector spring"

 

The swap was MUCH easier than expected and the action is smother with no other work done so far.  This is an early 16" round barrel, no safety on the bolt model.  It has the original metal (not SS) mag follower and the mag spring appears to have been shortened at some point.   Prior to this is functioned fine with dummy rounds and I fired 15 or so 357 mag rounds without issues.  When I cycle the same dummy rounds post spring change about 90% of the time the round does not slip under the extractor and as I cycle the action the round is not positioned correctly to go into the chamber and I need to bobble the lever a bit so the round settles on the lifter and then it will cycle.  I *think* the round is coming in low on the first cycle but I need to try filming it to be sure.

Before I do that I thought I would check to see if anyone had any suggestions for troubleshooting this

 

Thanks!  

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Try a fired case.

Insert EMPTY case, close the action, pull trigger, cycle action.

Does it wort now?

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Try a fired case.

Insert EMPTY case, close the action, pull trigger, cycle action.

Does it wort now?

I'll try that in a bit, but the issue is feeding, not extracting.  Once the dummy rounds are chambered they extract fine 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

1 hour ago, VinnieBoomBah said:

I'll try that in a bit, but the issue is feeding, not extracting.  Once the dummy rounds are chambered they extract fine 

You never stated it was a feed issue. 

Your post was written as an extraction issue.

Can you post a video? 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

You need to clarify what you are talking about.  Rossi's do not have extractor springs.  Here is a diagram what exactly are you talking about?  The extractor is part #21.

 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

I think the spring he replaced is the ejector spring inside rhe bolt, just has his terms mixed up. 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

It is hard to diagnose problems when people do not name the correct parts.  I do not KNOW what he is talking about.

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

Yeah, I was rushing to post this before running out the door and didn't do a good job of proofing it before I hit post  it was the ejector spring I replaced and double checking my search it was here that I typed the wrong word, the Google search was for "site:sassnet.com Rossi 92 ejector spring"

I thought I had done a fair to middling job of describing it as a feeding issue, however I can totally see how the word 'extractor' changes things to the point of confusion.   I'll try to get a video (or at least some good photos) in the morning

 

 

14 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

 I do not KNOW what he is talking about.

 

 

To be fair, it's pretty clear I don't either 

[Sedalia Dave]

Make sure you have parts 32, 33, and 34 installed in the bolt correctly. Especially # 34. I suspect this is your problem.

 

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

2 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Especially # 34. I suspect this is your problem

 

Will do!  Any tips on how it could be installed wrong?   My memory of having it in my hand is that it was a featureless cylinder, but there may have been a locating grove or other feature I missed when reassembling

 

 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

6 hours ago, VinnieBoomBah said:

90% of the time the round does not slip under the extractor (which we now know is really the extractor.)

The rounds should not be slipping under the ejector.  The ejector should be pushing the rounds up the lifter into the chamber.  The ejector parts should be in the order shown in the photo.   Ejector, spring and then the collar.  The lever pin has to go into the slot in the ejector (orange arrow) which means you have to push the ejector in while installing the lever pin.

 

 

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

4 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

 The lever pin has to go into the slot in the extractor (orange arrow) which means you have to push the extractor in while installing the lever pin.

 

Excellent description and photos, thank you! 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

12 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

The rounds should not be slipping under the extractor.  The extractor should be pushing the rounds up the lifter into the chamber.  The extractor parts should be in the order shown in the photo.   Extractor, spring and then the collar.  The lever pin has to go into the slot in the extractor (orange arrow) which means you have to push the extractor in while installing the lever pin.

Dang, Larsen, did you just call the ejector an extractor?? 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

And Vinnie, since you said it installed pretty easily, I'm guessing you already know about the trick of installing an empty case under the extractor and against the bolt face to hold those parts in place while putting it back together.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

8 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Dang, Larsen, did you just call the ejector an extractor?? 

I'll be darn, yes I did?  I put in the OP's quote just above my response and just continued to copy the incorrect language.  BUT, I posted photos so everyone could figure it out!

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

12 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

And Vinnie, since you said it installed pretty easily, I'm guessing you already know about the trick of installing an empty case under the extractor and against the bolt face to hold those parts in place while putting it back together.

 

YES!  And I have to say the $10.00 I spent on a cheep, plastic, used gun "vice" is by fair the BEST $10.00 I have ever spent on gun stuff!  

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

Took it apart and put it all back together again this morning and I believe I have everything assembled correctly.  Here is a video, if you are on a iPhone/iPad or MAC it may play in SloMo,

These are the same dummy rounds that cycled before the spring change 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

I'd really prefer to have it in my hands rather than a WAG (military acronym for Wild Ass'd Guess).  It does appear though, the right side cartridge guide needs shimmed to to just touch the side of the cartridge.  It appears the lifter is "bouncing" and holding the round above proper alignment with the bore and bolt.  It does not appear to have anything to do with the Ejector.

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

28 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

I'd really prefer to have it in my hands rather than a WAG (military acronym for Wild Ass'd Guess).  It does appear though, the right side cartridge guide needs shimmed to to just touch the side of the cartridge.  It appears the lifter is "bouncing" and holding the round above proper alignment with the bore and bolt.  It does not appear to have anything to do with the Ejector.

 

I tend to go with SWAG's myself       Watching it in SloMo on my phone they do indeed appear to be bouncing.  I've seen the videos on shimming, I have some bullets on the way, when they get here I will load up some 'corect' dummy rounds and try again, while I am waiting I'll watch the video's on shimming a few more times. 

[Trailrider #896]

Have you made sure all the bolts holding the cartridge guides are tight? Loose bolts holding the cartridge guides can cause feeding problems.

[Griff]

1 hour ago, VinnieBoomBah said:

 

I tend to go with SWAG's myself       Watching it in SloMo on my phone they do indeed appear to be bouncing.  I've seen the videos on shimming, I have some bullets on the way, when they get here I will load up some 'corect' dummy rounds and try again, while I am waiting I'll watch the video's on shimming a few more times. 

Is there something you were doing differently on the first 3, vs the last two?    You don't have much of a crimp that I can tell.  Without a crimp groove it appears you're leaving a very sharp edge at the case mouth.    Also, the ogive on that particular bullet appears quite long which is generally a help in feeding... but, every load & firearm is a bit different.   How sharp is the edge of the chamber mouth?  Hard to tell if the cartridge is jamming on the case against the chamber mouth or the rim in the slots.  

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

1 hour ago, Trailrider #896 said:

Have you made sure all the bolts holding the cartridge guides are tight? Loose bolts holding the cartridge guides can cause feeding problems.

 

I can't tell you how much I wished this was the issue, but nope, all the screws are tight 

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

23 minutes ago, Griff said:

Is there something you were doing differently on the first 3, vs the last two?    You don't have much of a crimp that I can tell.  Without a crimp groove it appears you're leaving a very sharp edge at the case mouth.    Also, the ogive on that particular bullet appears quite long which is generally a help in feeding... but, every load & firearm is a bit different.   How sharp is the edge of the chamber mouth?  Hard to tell if the cartridge is jamming on the case against the chamber mouth or the rim in the slots.  

 

They are coated bullets from Badman left over from when I had a 350 Legend, no crimp groove but I set the seating depth to put the case mouth at the front edge of the lube grove and had used a pretty agressive roll crimp.  I just ran them into a 9 mm taper crimp die to make sure there was no lip and it didn't change anything.    Sliding them in my hand they chamber smoothly and rewatching the video and when I cycled them just now it appears that the rear of the case is bouncing up just after the round has entered the chamber and the case head is too high on the bolt face so it jams the round in 'sideways'  Working the lever again allows the case to drop down to the correct position and they feed just fine at that point

[Griff]

1 minute ago, VinnieBoomBah said:

They are coated bullets from Badman left over from when I had a 350 Legend, no crimp groove but I set the seating depth to put the case mouth at the front edge of the lube grove and had used a pretty agressive roll crimp.  I just ran them into a 9 mm taper crimp die to make sure there was no lip and it didn't change anything.    Sliding them in my hand they chamber smoothly and rewatching the video and when I cycled them just now it appears that the rear of the case is bouncing up just after the round has entered the chamber and the case head is too high on the bolt face so it jams the round in 'sideways'  Working the lever again allows the case to drop down to the correct position and they feed just fine at that point

Yeah, hard to tell from that angle.   If it were mine, I know what I'd do... but, it's not always clear cut.  For me, it's a "feel" kinda thing...  The thing with rifles that're chambered for .38Spl/.357Mag is that at best they're a compromise.  Sometimes they're better at feeding one vs. the other.  Sometimes the rear of the cartridge slots in the guides need a little relieving, sometimes it's the front.   I've been pretty lucky, both my .38/.357 Rossis feed both very well without much massaging of the guides.   And my 45 Colt Rossi, while it's action ain't as smooth as either .357,  still feeds those big hog killers slickern' snot on a Louisiana swamp!  

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

The lifter has a spring loaded plunger that rides in and out of a detent in the left side of the receiver. Sometimes the edges of the detent are very sharp, causing the lifter to snap up too aggressively, hence the bobble Coffinmaker describes. It may need some smoothing. 
 

If you haven’t already done so, buy Nate Kiowa Jones DVD on Rossies.  I suggest not doing any more work on it until you see how it’s done by the Rossi master. 
 

https://stevesgunz.com/
 

 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

Vinnie, what’s your cartridge length?

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

6 hours ago, VinnieBoomBah said:

Took it apart and put it all back together again this morning and I believe I have everything assembled correctly.  Here is a video, if you are on a iPhone/iPad or MAC it may play in SloMo,

These are the same dummy rounds that cycled before the spring change 

RossiJam.MOV

All I get is audio, no video at all 

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

10 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

All I get is audio, no video at all 

 

That's odd, no idea why that happened 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Just now, VinnieBoomBah said:

 

That's odd, no idea why that happened 

Yes, very weird.

[Waimea]

VinnieBoomBah

I just stopped by to say I love your alias!

Are you from NY or NJ?

I knew at least 5 of your cousins when I was there.

They all wanted to fight.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

It's a pretty big video (395 mb) for only 15 seconds.  When I download it to my laptop, it will play in Windows Media Player, but is jerky.  It plays in landscape mode (sideways).  When I tried to play it with VLC media player, it shows up vertical, and only the closed action shows with no movement while the audio plays.