Tennessee Bank Shooter

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

All the news media are screaming about the Tennessee bank shooter buying a gun when he had self admitted mental problems according to 2 different notes he wrote. It is pretty obvious he lied on the FBI background check. One of the questions deals with mental state and mental problems. If he had answered yes to that question, he would have not passed the check and denied the ability to buy a gun. 

 

Too bad no one is talking about this situation. 

[Pat Riot]

I often wonder if douchebags like this guy aren’t plants or patsies. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life said:

All the news media are screaming about the Tennessee bank shooter buying a gun when he had self admitted mental problems according to 2 different notes he wrote. It is pretty obvious he lied on the FBI background check. One of the questions deals with mental state and mental problems. If he had answered yes to that question, he would have not passed the check and denied the ability to buy a gun. 

 

Too bad no one is talking about this situation. 

The question on the 4473 is have you ever been adjudicated for a mental issue. If he had not been adjudicated in court for a mental issue or hospitalized then he did not lie.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

This will make a GOOD discussion topic for the Saloon.

 

In my opinion, here lies part of the problem:  Self Incrimination.    Some folks view this as self incrimination

while others view it as out right lying.

 

And here lies the other problem that I see:    Police (or law enforcement agencies)  have been told that

they can't arrest someone UNTIL a crime is committed.    We've all heard stories about how some law

enforcement officials KNEW that someone MIGHT be planning something bad, but their hands were

tied because some lawyer would sue if someones rights were violated before they actually committed

a crime.

 

And us honest, legitimate gun owners are faced with another issue also:   if a spouse, neighbor, etc.....

calls the police and tells them that they THINK we are unstable, some states allow law enforcement

to take guns away....... or atleast that's my understanding.

 

What can be done to prevent the REAL NUTS from passing a background check?

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

4 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

This will make a GOOD discussion topic for the Saloon.

 

In my opinion, here lies part of the problem:  Self Incrimination.    Some folks view this as self incrimination

while others view it as out right lying.

 

And here lies the other problem that I see:    Police (or law enforcement agencies)  have been told that

they can't arrest someone UNTIL a crime is committed.    We've all heard stories about how some law

enforcement officials KNEW that someone MIGHT be planning something bad, but their hands were

tied because some lawyer would sue if someones rights were violated before they actually committed

a crime.

 

And us honest, legitimate gun owners are faced with another issue also:   if a spouse, neighbor, etc.....

calls the police and tells them that they THINK we are unstable, some states allow law enforcement

to take guns away....... or atleast that's my understanding.

 

What can be done to prevent the REAL NUTS from passing a background check?

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

You’re talking about the so called “red flag laws” which have not been passed anywhere as far as I know. It still lies on the 4473 form where they ask if you have ever been adjudicated for a mental issue or hospitalized for a mental disorder. They’d have to change that question. 

[Blackwater 53393]

It’s important to note that this was a shooting in Louisville, KENTUCKY!!

 

 The attempt to pass a “Red Flag Law” in the Tennessee legislature was voted down today!

 

 The shooter that brought on this attempt in Tennessee was a “trans” woman who “identified” as male. The parents and others who knew this individual were concerned about the mental state of the person, but not so concerned that they would call the authorities or seek help!!  Their inaction is a major contributing factor in this tragedy!!

 

As a result, the shooter planned and plotted and then went into a school, (a “GUN FREE ZONE”) and killed six people!!

 

 

 

 

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

Just now, Rye Miles #13621 said:

You’re talking about the so called “red flag laws” which have not been passed anywhere as far as I know. It still lies on the 4473 form where they ask if you have ever been adjudicated for a mental issue or hospitalized for a mental disorder. They’d have to change that question. 

Very difficult to change that question, by which I mean even asking if one is under care for a psychiatric issue can be grounds for denying someone.  The assumption that everyone under care is a danger to themselves or society is a pretty broad brush.  That's where "red flag laws" are supposed to fill in.  The assumption being that someone's erratic/irrational behavior may be a prelude to a more dangerous situation.  The legislature here in MN has a bill to pass that law.  The opposition, the Republican minority, is opposed since there is no due process written into the bill. 

[Blackwater 53393]

We have laws on the books that provide for the removal of firearms from people who are deemed unstable or dangerous by due process!!

 

You or I CAN be brought into court and subjected to questioning and examination by qualified professionals.  THIS IS DUE PROCESS!!  It prevents anyone from just claiming that someone is unfit and having your guns or any other rights or privileges taken on their word. This even goes for law enforcement, family, or other people who know you!

 

Without due process, NOBODY should be allowed to have their rights or privileges revoked or their possessions confiscated!  AND THAT INCLUDES THEIR GUNS OR ANY OTHER MEANS OF PROTECTING THEMSELVES OR OTHERS!!!!!

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

Answering truthfully on official documents is not 'self incrimination'. "Self incrimination" is when you testify against yourself in a criminal prosecution; you can't be compelled to do that because of a Constitutional provision. It has nothing to with truthful answers on the firearms form or anything else. If you believe you would incriminate yourself by an official report or form, don't complete it.

 

It's not particularly odd that police can't arrest people before they commit crimes. I think this is the usual understanding. "Crimes" can include crimes of conspiracy which can be committed before the ultimate act and for which arrests can be made.

 

What does it mean to "know" somebody "might" be planning something, exactly?

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

Hunter lied on a 4473 and nothing happened.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

The liberals really want to drop this case and wait for the next one.   Admitting that being a transvestite is a mental illness is not the battle they want to fight.  

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

7 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

The question on the 4473 is have you ever been adjudicated for a mental issue. If he had not been adjudicated in court for a mental issue or hospitalized then he did not lie.

I alwyas ask whoever is selling me the gun "Does this mean by anyone but my wife or kids?"

 

I've only had one (a woman) who didn't laugh. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

BTW as Blackwater said before, this is the LOUISVILLE KENTUCKY BANK SHOOTING NOT TENNESSEE

 

 

Tennessee was the Trans shooter!

[J.D. Daily]

On 4/21/2023 at 2:25 PM, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

This will make a GOOD discussion topic for the Saloon.

 

In my opinion, here lies part of the problem:  Self Incrimination.    Some folks view this as self incrimination

while others view it as out right lying.

 

And here lies the other problem that I see:    Police (or law enforcement agencies)  have been told that

they can't arrest someone UNTIL a crime is committed.    We've all heard stories about how some law

enforcement officials KNEW that someone MIGHT be planning something bad, but their hands were

tied because some lawyer would sue if someones rights were violated before they actually committed

a crime.

 

And us honest, legitimate gun owners are faced with another issue also:   if a spouse, neighbor, etc.....

calls the police and tells them that they THINK we are unstable, some states allow law enforcement

to take guns away....... or atleast that's my understanding.

 

What can be done to prevent the REAL NUTS from passing a background check?

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

Nothing that is constitutional.

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

On 4/21/2023 at 5:32 PM, Rye Miles #13621 said:

You’re talking   about the so called “red flag laws” which have not been passed anywhere as far as I know. It still lies on the 4473 form where they ask if you have ever been adjudicated for a mental issue or hospitalized for a mental disorder. They’d have to change that question. 

Au contraire, mon ami.  We have them here. 

https://www.mass.gov/extreme-risk-protection-orders

 

LL

[sassnetguy50]

1 hour ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

Au contraire, mon ami.  We have them here. 

https://www.mass.gov/extreme-risk-protection-orders

 

LL

From the internet:

STATES IN WHICH EXTREME RISK LAWS ARE IN EFFECT:

California (2016)

Colorado (2019)

Connecticut (1999)

Delaware (2018)

Florida (2018)

Hawaii (2019)

Illinois (2019)

Indiana (2005)

Maryland (2018)

Massachusetts (2018)

Nevada (2019)

New Jersey (2019)

New York (2019)

Oregon (2018)

Rhode Island (2018)

Vermont (2018)

Washington (2016)

Washington, D.C. (2019)

New Mexico (2020)

Virginia (2020)

[Buckshot Bob]

21 minutes ago, sassnetguy50 said:

From the internet:

STATES IN WHICH EXTREME RISK LAWS ARE IN EFFECT:

California (2016)

Colorado (2019)

Connecticut (1999)

Delaware (2018)

Florida (2018)

Hawaii (2019)

Illinois (2019)

Indiana (2005)

Maryland (2018)

Massachusetts (2018)

Nevada (2019)

New Jersey (2019)

New York (2019)

Oregon (2018)

Rhode Island (2018)

Vermont (2018)

Washington (2016)

Washington, D.C. (2019)

New Mexico (2020)

Virginia (2020)

Mi will be added to that list soon, it’s past just not in effect yet, along with long gun registration and “safe storage laws”, thanks to our democrat majority. They immediately voted to trample on citizens rights. I hope the red flag laws are declared unconstitutional by the courts, unfortunately if they are it will take years before they reach the Supreme Court . Right now the don’t feel they have enough support to pass a “assault weapons ban” or I’m sure that would have happened also. 

[sassnetguy50]

50 minutes ago, Buckshot Bob said:

Mi will be added to that list soon, it’s past just not in effect yet, along with long gun registration and “safe storage laws”, thanks to our democrat majority. They immediately voted to trample on citizens rights. I hope the red flag laws are declared unconstitutional by the courts, unfortunately if they are it will take years before they reach the Supreme Court . Right now the don’t feel they have enough support to pass a “assault weapons ban” or I’m sure that would have happened also. 

They tried, passed the house not the senate.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1808/actions

[Buckshot Bob]

43 minutes ago, sassnetguy50 said:

They tried, passed the house not the senate.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1808/actions

I was referring to Michigan, our last election gave the Democrats total control 

[bgavin]

Hunter Biden lied on his 4473 as well.. didn't hurt him a bit.

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

It is pretty obvious to me that a person, sane or otherwise, with a desire to commit criminal acts will always self-certify himself on the 4473. The questions on a 4473 do nothing  but to act as a statement self-certification to be filed away as part of the purchase process and not scrutinized against reality or against any contradictions  revealed from any criminal history that may pop up, until maybe after a crime is committed. It may deter the rare honest person. It’s the name, address, id matchup etc that’s ran to the database looking for a criminal record they are trying to clear before finalizing the transaction. The rest is largely pointless, only to be pointed out as such by gun grabbers wanting more government over-reach.

 

[sassnetguy50]

37 minutes ago, Dirty Dan Dawkins said:

It is pretty obvious to me that a person, sane or otherwise, with a desire to commit criminal acts will always self-certify himself on the 4473. The questions on a 4473 do nothing  but to act as a statement self-certification to be filed away as part of the purchase process and not scrutinized against reality or against any contradictions  revealed from any criminal history that may pop up, until maybe after a crime is committed. It may deter the rare honest person. It’s the name, address, id matchup etc that’s ran to the database looking for a criminal record they are trying to clear before finalizing the transaction. The rest is largely pointless, only to be pointed out as such by gun grabbers wanting more government over-reach.

 

The 4473 also serves as an extra hurdle for the FFL, giving the atf an excuse of clerical error to take the FFL's living. 

[Cypress Sun]

1 hour ago, Dirty Dan Dawkins said:

It is pretty obvious to me that a person, sane or otherwise, with a desire to commit criminal acts will always self-certify himself on the 4473. The questions on a 4473 do nothing  but to act as a statement self-certification to be filed away as part of the purchase process and not scrutinized against reality or against any contradictions  revealed from any criminal history that may pop up, until maybe after a crime is committed. It may deter the rare honest person. It’s the name, address, id matchup etc that’s ran to the database looking for a criminal record they are trying to clear before finalizing the transaction. The rest is largely pointless, only to be pointed out as such by gun grabbers wanting more government over-reach.

 

 

And (in these days of electronically stored records) it's a permanent document.

[Rye Miles #13621]

2 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

And (in these days of electronically stored records) it's a permanent document.

The 4473 stays with the FFL owner until they go out of business. The guvmint has no records of what you bought until the place or places you bought from fold.

[Buckshot Bob]

2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

The 4473 stays with the FFL owner until they go out of business. The guvmint has no records of what you bought until the place or places you bought from fold.

Unless they are in taking pictures of all of them in a business, which they have been documented doing. I’ve also seen FOIA documents that pretty much prove they are turning all of the records they have from business that have surrendered their FFL’s into a searchable database. It’s pretty obvious they don’t care if they are following the law, but we’re expected to follow rules they make, like it’s law 

[bgavin]

2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

The 4473 stays with the FFL owner until they go out of business. The guvmint has no records of what you bought until the place or places you bought from fold.

Not in CA.

The DROS is online and available 24x7 to law enforcement.
It is VERY comprehensive as to the description of the firearm.

[Duffield, SASS #23454]

3 hours ago, sassnetguy50 said:

The 4473 also serves as an extra hurdle for the FFL, giving the atf an excuse of clerical error to take the FFL's living. 

 That Happened to a friend of mine.

[sassnetguy50]

3 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

And (in these days of electronically stored records) it's a permanent document.

It is permanent paper or electric, Biden made sure of that.  FFLs are no longer allowed to destroy records after 20 years.

[watab kid]

well ...........heres my take on this - they wrote the laws and they didnt work , as is the case in most every shooting , the criminals and those setting out to be a criminal are not going to follow the law and there is nothing passing new laws that only affect the law-abiding will do to cure this - 

 

",,,,,,,,All the news media are screaming about the Tennessee bank shooter buying a gun when he had self admitted mental problems according to 2 different notes he wrote. It is pretty obvious he lied on the FBI background check. One of the questions deals with mental state and mental problems. If he had answered yes to that question, he would have not passed the check and denied the ability to buy a gun. 

 

Too bad no one is talking about this situation. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"

 

its high time they go after criminals in a meaningful way then not just prosecute but make them pay in a meaningful way , im not against the death penalty in that kind of case , then there is the need to address the mental illnes in a very meaningful way - letting them walk about without any kind of treatment or confinement is just not working , i gat it that its saved a lot of money for the government but im thinking this needs rethinking 

[Blackwater 53393]

Once AGAIN!!  The bank shooting was in KENTUCKY!!  Louisville, KENTUCKY!!  If we’re going to discuss this incident, let’s at least identify the correct event!

 

The guy was a disturbed, disgruntled individual with a liberal agenda wanting to show that mentally ill persons could circumvent the background checks!

 

HE PROVED IT!! What he actually proved was that background checks are not effective in preventing crime!!

 

If you get right down to it, laws in general do little if anything to prevent crime.  Laws simply define what is a crime and often establish the penalties for committing that crime!!

 

The shooting in Tennessee was a school shooting perpetrated by a “trans” person who was female, but she “identifiesd” as male. Her/his agenda was apparently to punish the school she attended as a child, feeling that there was some kind of slight or offense directed at him/her/it.

 

There IS a common denominator!!  Both of these criminals were sick!  They suffered from mental health disorders, the people who knew them weren’t concerned or conscientious enough to take action to prevent them from harming others or themselves, and they were both determined to do harm to satisfy their deranged sense of mistreatment!!

 

When the public eventually realizes that these are mental health problems and NOT “gun violence” problems, we can start to work on effective, worthwhile solutions to the problem!!

[watab kid]

agreed there was an obvious disconnect between the two occurrences , my statements stand as stated ..................

 

i agree with red gauntlet that the law simply defines a crime - yet it seems that the definition falls short in that it fails to define the penalty , i get it that the bureaucracy wants  those two separated but i think that separation has caused a breakdown in our civilization , consequences are no longer the discussion , we are missing something that once made us a civil group living together , 

 

but then with everything else i could bring to this discussion there is an obvious breakdown in our society that looks like deadwood when hickock was shot - except its children and its not the fault of guns or those that legally own them , so we are back to the mentally ill and the criminals - lets decide how we deal with them - quickly please 

[Rye Miles #13621]

6 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

Once AGAIN!!  The bank shooting was in KENTUCKY!!  Louisville, KENTUCKY!!  If we’re going to discuss this incident, let’s at least identify the correct event!

 

The guy was a disturbed, disgruntled individual with a liberal agenda wanting to show that mentally ill persons could circumvent the background checks!

 

HE PROVED IT!! What he actually proved was that background checks are not effective in preventing crime!!

 

If you get right down to it, laws in general do little if anything to prevent crime.  Laws simply define what is a crime and often establish the penalties for committing that crime!!

 

The shooting in Tennessee was a school shooting perpetrated by a “trans” person who was female, but she “identifiesd” as male. Her/his agenda was apparently to punish the school she attended as a child, feeling that there was some kind of slight or offense directed at him/her/it.

 

There IS a common denominator!!  Both of these criminals were sick!  They suffered from mental health disorders, the people who knew them weren’t concerned or conscientious enough to take action to prevent them from harming others or themselves, and they were both determined to do harm to satisfy their deranged sense of mistreatment!!

 

When the public eventually realizes that these are mental health problems and NOT “gun violence” problems, we can start to work on effective, worthwhile solutions to the problem!!

Could the OP please edit this? 
KENTUCKY BANK SHOOTER!!!