Didn’t know this happened to Ian , and with a cowboy gun

[Buckshot Bob]

 

[Warden Callaway]

Ironic that as much as he shoots, he got bit by a replica of a Henry. 

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

I was at a range with a buddy who was shooting a replica Henry.  He was using 44-40 rounds loaded by a known, at the time, commercial reloader.   One round was overloaded and when fired the blast blew the extension and bolt out of the rear of the receiver and hit him in the lower portion of the  glasses.  Luckily, he was wearing shooting glasses and there was no injury because of that.  The reloader is no longer in business having shut down shortly after the mishap.  Not the same issue as Ian describes, but once again, shows the value of shooting glasses. 

[Alpo]

I like how he explained that when you walk into the ER with blood all down your chest holding a bloody bandage to your chest, you get to go to the front of the line.

 

About a year and a half ago I found out how to get to the front of the line in the ER. You walk in and you tell the triage nurse you think you're having a heart attack. You're immediately seen.

[WOLFY]

see - before this, i would’ve told anyone that a flat nose bullet could not set off a centerfire cartidge in a tubular magazine.

 

learn something new every day

[Sedalia Dave]

6 minutes ago, WOLFY said:

see - i would’ve told anyone that a flat nose bullet would not set off a centerfire cartidge in a tube magazine

 

Bullet noses get damaged all the time. Sometimes there are small imperfections on the nose of the bullet.

 

Wonder what brand of primer?

 

Just because the primer is flush after the incident doesn't mean it was flush before the incident.

[WOLFY]

I agree, Sedalia D.  When he said “afterwards” I was thinking the same thing i r t the high primer.

[Alpo]

1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Wonder what brand of primer?

As I was listening I was thinking, Federal primer.

[Michigan Slim]

1 hour ago, Alpo said:

I like how he explained that when you walk into the ER with blood all down your chest holding a bloody bandage to your chest, you get to go to the front of the line.

 

About a year and a half ago I found out how to get to the front of the line in the ER. You walk in and you tell the triage nurse you think you're having a heart attack. You're immediately seen.

I can vouch for this. I did it in January. Met my deductible in fifteen minutes.

[Warden Callaway]

I was at a state match and talking with a lady. She was telling about her husband recuperating from a hand injury due to an magazine exploding.   He came up about that time.  I asked what happened.  He didn't comment so I let it drop.  I think his left hand was permanently damaged.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

I built Toggle Link rifles for competition for 25 years.  Over that time I witnessed three magazine detonations.  Two in Henry Rifles and One in an 1866.  The Henry detonations were for the same reason as Ian's experience.  The 1866, none of the witnesses are sure about. The Henry's detonated about 8 cartridges each and the 1866 three.  I have also shot Henry and 1866 rifles forever in CAS.  After the Henry detonations, I developed a "spacer" to add to the cartridge stack which prevented the follower from gaining enough momentum to do anything.  As collateral effect, the spacer also allow the shooter to grip the henry further out onto the barrel.  Very "handy" indeed.

 

The Henry detonations resulted in some really nasty shrapnel injuries and the 1866 cost couple of chunks out of two fingers.  No fun at all.  I also know a guy that lost the better part of his left hand to a Magazine detonation in a High Power hunting lever gun.  That one was pointy bullets.  Pointy bullets are very foolish (stupid, actually) in a tube magazine.

[WOLFY]

coffinmaker, that’s a very neat idea… with a longer barrel (24”) i bet that spacer eliminates the need for doing the “hop” as well.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

FYI.  RNFP bullets are not really "flat."  This is a more or less standard 200 grain RNFP .44-40.

 

 

[Blackwater 53393]

I can, (and have) offer first hand knowledge of the Henry magazine detonation! I have described this event in detail here on two other occasions, so I won’t go into deep detail this time.

 

In my case, it was a stack of eight cartridges, five of which fired. The rifle was laying flat on the loading table, so you can imagine where the shrapnel ended up!!  
 

It was after the day’s match and I returned to the range to get in some extra practice. 102 degrees and I was hot and sweaty. The follower slipped off of my thumb and BOOM!

 

 I was lucky!! The range was also the lodging for the club and one of the regular members was a doctor and, like many of us, lived at the range on shooting weekends.

 

After a quick preliminary examination, we loaded up and headed to the local ER.  I was X-rayed, the ER attending picked out what brass he could get to, gave me a tetanus shot and some pain meds that I never used, and sent me on my way.

 

Like Larson’s illustration above, we discovered that the bullet I was using was NOT entirely flat, a flaw that the manufacturer corrected in his molds upon receiving the news!

 

In my case, there was a physician in attendance! I wasn’t seriously injured. The first aid kit and the first aid training are probably the best idea I can think of, in lieu of a doctor or EMTs being there when we’re shooting!!!

 

The first and most important rule in SASS  is BE SAFE!!!!!

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

I keep my Henry at a really shallow angle when loading so the cartridges don't fall all the way and the stack stays loose. When I need more space for loading, I tip the barrel so they slide slowly down as opposed to falling with any momentum. Last is a spacer stick just like Coffinmaker's so all in all, the follower is less likely to achieve enough momentum to cause a problem if it falls.

[Pat Riot]

I have only shot an 1860 Henry once for a couple of stages years ago. My Pard Mayobard let me try out his rifle. I recall him showing me how to load it and his words “To  not drop the magazine follower or you could have a detonation.” Nuff said! 

[Blackwater 53393]

I actually load mine with it laying flat on the table, with the right side up. The cartridges slide easily and when I get them all loaded, I slide my spacer in and then close the magazine carefully.

 

Trust me!! By the time you’ve dug the fifth or sixth large brass shard out of your groin area over a span of several years, you will be completely convinced that this happenig once is way more than enough!

[Three Foot Johnson]

Somewhere in that video, he says it couldn't have been a high primer, nor could flat point bullets have caused it, so he thought it was inertia that caused the anvil to crush the priming pellet with enough force to set it off... Think about that next time you're pulling bullets with an inertia puller... 

[Raton Rick]

Many seem to forget that the original 1860 Henry rifles were rimfire (.44), not centerfire. The rimfire ammunition would have a very difficult time being set off in the magazine, whereas the centerfire ammunition has many potential possibilities for detonation in the magazine.

[Blackwater 53393]

FIRST: Take a look at the pictures in Larsen’s post above.

 

NEXT: Think about the sensitivity of some of the primers that we use.

 

NOW:  Consider the tension stored in the magazine spring of a replica Henry rifle when it is pushed into the section of the rifle where it is placed during the loading process.

 

NEXT:  Consider the mass of the brass magazne follower that is also stored in that section of the rifle.

 

THEN:  Think about the added momentum of that follower supplied by gravity if the rifle is held much above horizontal!

 

If you total all of this up, you’ll see that the force applied to the primer is much greater than that of the rifle’s hammer when the trigger is pulled.  Even though the face of that bullet is much flatter than the firing pin on the hammer, you can see the possibility that exists.  Add to that the force applied when one primer in the stack does go off and you have the potential for a chain of ignitions such as the ones that you have seen described here!!

 

Think about the explosions in the primer tubes on our reloading equipment!

 

Again!!  BE SAFE!!

 

 

 

 

[John E. Law]

On 4/19/2023 at 1:44 PM, Alpo said:

I like how he explained that when you walk into the ER with blood all down your chest holding a bloody bandage to your chest, you get to go to the front of the line.

 

About a year and a half ago I found out how to get to the front of the line in the ER. You walk in and you tell the triage nurse you think you're having a heart attack. You're immediately seen.

Our ERs are so busy that even cardiac and possible stroke issues are no longer a bump right in. About 7 weeks ago I got a high fever as a reaction to the chemo I am going through. When I say high fever I'm talking it was 104.1 degrees high. I went to the ER and was immediately told that there was a 6-8 HOUR wait just to get out of the waiting room, let alone to get treatment. I told her that my temp was over 104 degrees and she apologized and said that she had 2 active cardiac patients that had been waiting for over an hour due to them being so overcrowded and there was nothing she could do. She literally looked exhausted and again apologized. I felt bad for her because you could tell she shouldn't have had to make these decisions but had no choice. It was 0345 hrs so we just drove to my oncologist office and I waited the 4 hours in the parking lot popping Tylenol like M&Ms until they opened. The fever was still in the 102.5 range so they gave me a few quarts of fluids, and it broke. This happened with 5 of my 8 chemo sessions. When it happened the next time, not as bad but over 103, we called the ER ahead and also the other 3 ERs in the area and they all advised they were on multi hour waits to be seen. I never went back to the ER as there was no point. I got with my doctor and they gave me IV fluids to take home with me to plug in if and when it happened. The fever temps never went above 102.5 after that second time. This right here scared me more than anything else in this battle I've been through thus far.

 

JEL