New Vaquero Hammer Springs

[Skullbone Willie]

I have a set of Stainless Ruger New Vaqueros, one grip frame is the California safety and one is a regular grip frame. My question is when replacing the Hammer Springs for SASS shooting. There’s roughly .200” difference in the length. If I install 15 lb springs should I install both the same or snip a few coils off the one going in the shorter setup ? These are just pics I found online that show the difference. The 2nd pic is what I’m calling a California frame because of their ridiculous safety laws.

[Still hand Bill]

Removing the coils make the springs stiffer.  The right fix is to use the right springs. Wolfe does make different springs for the trigger lock frames.  https://www.gunsprings.com/RUGER/SMALL FRAME (XR-3) SINGLE ACTION/cID3/mID52/dID229

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

1 hour ago, Still hand Bill said:

Removing the coils make the springs stiffer.  The right fix is to use the right springs. Wolfe does make different springs for the trigger lock frames.  https://www.gunsprings.com/RUGER/SMALL FRAME (XR-3) SINGLE ACTION/cID3/mID52/dID229

I have to disagree. Snipping coils off will not make the spring stiffer, but I do agree, just buy the right springs from Wolff. 

[Skullbone Willie]

59 minutes ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

I have to disagree. Snipping coils off will not make the spring stiffer, but I do agree, just buy the right springs from Wolff. 

So which springs should I buy ? I didn’t see different lengths. 

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

I like the 15lb key lock if it has that and 15 Vaquero/ New Vaquero for the one that doesn’t have the key lock. 15lb should pop most primers.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Not really a California safety as all the older NMV's had the safety lock.  Later ones seem to have eliminated the lock and use a sheet metal spring seat.  Just to keep things simple what I would do is order the springs for the NMV with lock and then put a stack of washers on the end of the strut on the other one to take up the difference in length.  That way you only need to worry about one type of spring in the guns and the actions should feel the same.

 

https://www.gunsprings.com/RUGER/SMALL FRAME (XR-3) SINGLE ACTION/cID3/mID52/dID229

[Still hand Bill]

3 hours ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

I have to disagree. Snipping coils off will not make the spring stiffer, but I do agree, just buy the right springs from Wolff. 

Making a spring shorter makes the spring rate higher, thus stiffer.  Simple physics.  To visualize, take a yard stick bend it, then cut it shorter, harder to bend.  Same thing with a coil spring.  Just the wire is coiled up instead of straight.  

[Still hand Bill]

2 hours ago, Skullbone Willie said:

So which springs should I buy ? I didn’t see different lengths. 

The ones for the x3 frame are shorter to deal with the lock.  The other single action springs are on a different tab. 

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

8 minutes ago, Still hand Bill said:

Making a spring shorter makes the spring rate higher, thus stiffer.  Simple physics.  To visualize, take a yard stick bend it, then cut it shorter, harder to bend.  Same thing with a coil spring.  Just the wire is coiled up instead of straight.  

Snipping coils off makes its lighter not heavier. Following your logic if I cut all but 3 coils off I’d barely be able to cock the gun. 
 

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

Call Wolfe or Power Custom and have them get you the correct springs. I did the exact same thing for my friend's two NMVs.

You should be able to tweak them to exact feel after you get them, but that should not be needed.

[Still hand Bill]

8 hours ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

Snipping coils off makes its lighter not heavier. Following your logic if I cut all but 3 coils off I’d barely be able to cock the gun. 
 

you are confusing preload with spring rate.  Not the same thing.  

 

The spring is now stiffer with 3 coils gone, but shorter, so less preload.  If installed in the same location the initial force will be less making it seem softer, but at full cock it may actually take more force to compress the spring.  
 

Springs are rated in lbs/inch.  If you use a standard 20lb/inch spring, compressing it .1” will give 2lbs of force.   If cocking the hammer moves another 1/2”, the total spring force would be 12lbs at full cock.   2 lbs from compressing it .1” and 10 lbs from the .5”. Now let’s say taking the 3 coils off makes the spring a 30lb/in spring and makes it .2” shorter.   There will be no force in the free state and the force at full cock is still 12lbs (.4”x30), as the spring is significantly stiffer.  in your case removing coils seems like you made the spring less stiff, when what you really did was remove preload by making the spring shorter and not compressing it as much, the spring rate is stiffer.  
 

 

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

2 minutes ago, Still hand Bill said:

you are confusing preload with spring rate.  Not the same thing.  

 

The spring is now stiffer with 3 coils gone, but shorter, so less preload.  If installed in the same location the initial force will be less making it seem softer, but at full cock it may actually take more force to compress the spring.  
 

Springs are rated in lbs/inch.  If you use a standard 20lb/inch spring, compressing it .1” will give 2lbs of force.   If cocking the hammer moves another 1/2”, the total spring force would be 12lbs at full cock.   2 lbs from compressing it .1” and 10 lbs from the .5”. Now let’s say taking the 3 coils off makes the spring a 30lb/in spring and makes it .2” shorter.   There will be no force in the free state and the force at full cock is still 12lbs (.4”x30), as the spring is significantly stiffer.  in your case removing coils seems like you made the spring less stiff, when what you really did was remove preload by making the spring shorter and not compressing it as much, the spring rate is stiffer.  
 

 

Let it go Bill. We agree cutting springs is not the way to go but buying the correct spring is. 

[Skullbone Willie]

13 hours ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

I like the 15lb key lock if it has that and 15 Vaquero/ New Vaquero for the one that doesn’t have the key lock. 15lb should pop most primers.

Thanks, order placed