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Quick question about gun carts..


Six-String Cowboy

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Are there any SASS rules against having long guns pointed down towards the ground on gun carts? I noticed the carts I've seen here on the forum have barrels pointed upwards, but a lot of carts I've seen used in other shooting sports have muzzles pointed downward. I tried looking for anything in the SASS rulebook mentioning it but didn't see anything unless I missed it. Also if it's better one way or the other I'd love to hear why if anyone has some wisdom on the subject. Thanks!

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I’ll defer to Pale Wolf Brunelle for the exact citation. However, there is no safe way to remove downward facing long guns without sweeping folks around you and breaking the 170 Rule. Safety is paramount in this sport.

 

La Sombra

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SHB says "pointed in a safe direction when transported" and earlier it says under conventions "maintained in a safe direction at all times (generally "up"...)

I believe this is where most folks derive the "muzzles up" mentality from. Some ranges stipulate muzzles up on long guns (mine does).

Just awkward and possibly unsafe to transport muzzle down; so much easier to just grab muzzle up and go.

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7 hours ago, La Sombra said:

I’ll defer to Pale Wolf Brunelle for the exact citation. However, there is no safe way to remove downward facing long guns without sweeping folks around you and breaking the 170 Rule. 

I respectfully disagree.  Carry muzzle down to the loading table then swing up down range with no one between the muzzle  and the firing line.

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Thanks everyone. I am trying to convert a running stroller into a gun cart so I'm going to have to get pretty creative to carry guns muzzle up. I'm going to think on this for a bit and in the mean time look at other people's builds to see how they did it on theirs. 

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4 hours ago, Matthew Duncan said:

I respectfully disagree.  Carry muzzle down to the loading table then swing up down range with no one between the muzzle  and the firing line.

I agree with you Matthew.  My very first gun cart carried two guns up, and two guns down in scabbards.  However, what with many clubs having a muzzles up rule, and just about everybody carrying muzzles up anyway, I think somebody is going to have a lot of people yelling at them if they carry muzzle down so just as well go with the flow and avoid conflict. :)

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I use one of these Hyskore soft pistol racks in the bottom of my cart with some heavy gun magnets at the top to hold my guns upright.

https://hyskore.com/products/30002-modular-pistol-rack/

 

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4 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I agree with you Matthew.  My very first gun cart carried two guns up, and two guns down in scabbards.  However, what with many clubs having a muzzles up rule, and just about everybody carrying muzzles up anyway, I think somebody is going to have a lot of people yelling at them if they carry muzzle down so just as well go with the flow and avoid conflict. :)

Yes I agree with you.  Some folks believe just because the majority does something one way then there isn’t another way that is still within the rules.

 

I’ve shot SASS at many different clubs in six different States and never have been to a “muzzle up only” range.  Makes me wonder if “muzzle up only” ranges are as prevalent as Al Bore’s Internet portrays?

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33 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said:

Yes I agree with you.  Some folks believe just because the majority does something one way then there isn’t another way that is still within the rules.

 

I’ve shot SASS at many different clubs in six different States and never have been to a “muzzle up only” range.  Makes me wonder if “muzzle up only” ranges are as prevalent as Al Bore’s Internet portrays?

If you’ll come to Wartrace you’ll see one. We are muzzles up and action’s open from the time the come out of your vehicle until the time they go back in the vehicle. Except on the firing line. 
 

Thanks

Randy

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7 hours ago, Smokey Chuck Wagner said:

Thanks everyone. I am trying to convert a running stroller into a gun cart so I'm going to have to get pretty creative to carry guns muzzle up. I'm going to think on this for a bit and in the mean time look at other people's builds to see how they did it on theirs. 

Many have used a stroller for their gun carts.

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I’ve built two stroller carts with a muzzles up configuration.  There are several ways to do it.

 

Lesson learned from first build:  place the butts ahead of the rear axle!

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I built a muzzle down cart out of a baby stroller for my wife.  Used a three wheel cart made for runners.  She has never had an issue.  By all means check with your local clubs to see what they require.  Muzzle down is really easy.  I bought a pair of Kolpin gun racks meant for use on a ATV.  This holds the buttstock.  I bought some large hose clamps and the rubber seals from the plumbing section of the hardware.  These were clamped to the bottom of the braces on the side of the cart.  Muzzle goes in the rubber seal.  Took all of 15 minutes and most of that time was spent looking for a screwdriver.  She has boxes she puts spare stuff in on the seat.  Empties go in a bag in the pouch under the seat.  She parks it in a position that she can take the guns out while keeping the muzzles safely down range.  

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@Sarge That was actually what I had planned to do at first. I was about to order the Kolpin racks when I realized I should ask about the muzzle up or down issue. Now I'm going for the muzzle up option just to make sure there are no issues if I ever travel with it, but I think the cart you made looks great and really lightweight too!

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Not sure if this photo helps any.  The cart behind the post is a muzzle up gun cart.  Saw it while searching for the one I made.  Good luck.  image.jpeg.52cb5b0a53797891bdea5f93db403a06.jpeg

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I never liked the thought of guns pointed at my head when moving so avoided the 2-wheeled handcart build. 

 

Attached are a few (okay . . . a lot) of pictures of the one that I built out of a baby stroller.  The key points are the machined aluminum bar that holds the two modified gun cradles and bag from a carpenter's work belt, the milled-out-of-plastic base for gun butts, ammo, and spend cases/hulls, and the front frame that holds the front box.  I also added additional straps to the bottom bag to reinforce it for the weight.  The bottom piece was attached to the factory metal reinforcing rods in the bottom bag with rubber-coated straps to keep it in place.  Although it was designed to hold four long guns and two pistols, I do not use the side cradles at matches.  I'm not sure if it would be a problem or not so decided to avoid the possibility of it being an issue.

 

The purists likely hate it, but this cart works great.  I do wish it had more room for stuff but I've always had everything that I needed for a match.  It doesn't fold as compactly as I would like but it does fit under the bed cover of the pickup just fine.  It's light and very easy to load/unload and maneuver around the range.  All in all, I'm not sure I would do anything different on the next build . . . if there ever is a "next build".

 

Hope this helps, Smokey Chuck W.  Don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions on how or why I did what I did to this thing.

Cart 1.JPG

Cart 2.JPG

Cart 3.JPG

Cart 4.JPG

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Cart 7.JPG

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i came to this sport from three gun with a muzzel down gun cart , ive also got a muzzel down sporting clays cart that ive used , i found it a little difficult but always found a way back then to go to muzzel up without sweeping but figured it out , i have revised my regular cart to muzzel up , and not had to deal with it but i get your dilemma - as long as your still building look at the modifications needed and make them if possible , 

 

ive never had an issue at any range ive been on , but , ive found it far more comfortable everywhere after my modifications , they were a bit of a pain to work out but it can be done with careful thought and a bit of ingenuity , 

 

bigger problems ive had were with the umbrella , brass picking bits and water bottle/brass bags /ammo on my lightweight cart ....now my stool/chair ...........oh well all part of the fun really 

 

BTW , Shawnee thats a nice looking cart setup 

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@Shawnee Hills Thanks for the detailed pictures! I actually plan on reenforcing the bottom storage back with straps as well. Your cart looks great and shows a lot of thought went into it. I especially like the insert rest for the buttstocks you're using. Did you do the machining yourself?

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2 minutes ago, Smokey Chuck Wagner said:

@Shawnee Hills Thanks for the detailed pictures! I actually plan on reenforcing the bottom storage back with straps as well. Your cart looks great and shows a lot of thought went into it. I especially like the insert rest for the buttstocks you're using. Did you do the machining yourself?

 

You're very welcome!  Hopefully the pictures will make your build easier than mine was.  I had an idea what I wanted but it was kind of a design-as-I-went affair.

 

I'm very fortunate to have a small machine shop at home so, yes, am able to make most of what I need.  Wood would have worked just as well for that base, but I wanted something that I didn't have to worry about breaking.  I already had 1" plastic plate on hand so that's what I used.

 

The aluminum bar used for the gun rests had to have each end milled at an angle so as to sit level when attached to the stroller's tubes.  If I remembered what that exact angle was, I'd certainly offer it but, sadly, I do not.

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14 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said:

Y’all realize muzzle up carts sweep the user every time they tilt the car back to move it?

One advantage of a jogging stroller cart is that it sits on three wheels.  No need to tilt it back like a dolly.

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Always thought that was an odd thing, but used to it now! But it easier to grab my long guns and keep them muzzle up. Much easier than having to flip on departure and return.

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44 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said:

Y’all realize muzzle up carts sweep the user every time they tilt the car back to move it?

Not this fan wagon. Most popular cart on hot summer match days. 

PXL_20201203_004817343.jpg

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Took these pictures last night of my current "Prototype 2" cart. I did switch the pistol holsters around the the front, in the section with the cooler. Gun magnets hold the long gun barrels in place, while the pistol rest in the bottom keeps the butts from sliding around. The bungee cord is strictly insurance as those magnets really grab the long guns with authority.

gc2023-1.jpg

gc2023-2.jpg

gc2023-3.jpg

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6 hours ago, Matthew Duncan said:

Y’all realize muzzle up carts sweep the user every time they tilt the cart back to move it?

I do but that was the range rule at Wartrace when I started in 2005 and I don’t see it changing. I think the original reason behind it was to keep you from sweeping others when getting or returning guns to the cart.

 

 Randy 

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I purchased buttstock “sockets” and barrel magnets from this company; these products were designed to hold guns in a duck blind.  I have two of the wedge shaped magnets that do a great job securing round barrels.  I have two flat magnets to hold octagon barrels and other non-round shapes.

 

https://www.cojomfg.com/

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Here's my $20 jogger that I modified. The long gun rack slips out of the cart as does the ammo tray and cooler box. The cart folds up and the wheels come off. The gun rack is held in place with removable clips. It went into a small car, but now that I have a truck, just leave it assembled. It's no work of art, but does the job and rolls easy. 

IMG_20210414_141019453.jpg

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The ammo tray is wood with leather sides. There is a wood piece on the bottom that locks it in place on the aluminum frame so it doesn't move around. I made some removable pins out of 1/4" bolts to hold the long gun rack in place that you can see by the SASS sticker and down by the ammo tray. Here's a close up photo.

IMG_20210414_140950641.jpg

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On 4/18/2023 at 2:33 AM, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

SHB says "pointed in a safe direction when transported" and earlier it says under conventions "maintained in a safe direction at all times (generally "up"...)

I believe this is where most folks derive the "muzzles up" mentality from. Some ranges stipulate muzzles up on long guns (mine does).

Just awkward and possibly unsafe to transport muzzle down; so much easier to just grab muzzle up and go.

But pointing directly at your head or chest while pushing the cart isn't exactly a "safe direction". 

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