6th nipple caps for C&B revolvers

[Diamond Curly SASS#57086]

I was to late to send pictures of what I put on my sixth cap in my C&B revolvers on a post with Major Crimes

[Major Crimes]

Do you then cut it to size?

 

The ones I have found online are a lot longer than the one in your photo.

 

 

#8 Screw Thread Protector - Red

[Chili Pepper Pete 11917]

I just remove the nipple so I don't have to think about it but that looks like a cool idea.

 

 

[Diamond Curly SASS#57086]

11 hours ago, Major Crimes said:

Do you then cut it to size?

 

The ones I have found online are a lot longer than the one in your photo.

 

 

#8 Screw Thread Protector - Red

Yes I cut them in half and use both halves. 
 

[Griff]

Did y'all not read this article?  "Preventing Chain Fires"  (click on the red text to be taken to the article).  The author goes over how he came to prevent chain fires in his C & B revolvers.  Also details the experiments he did to determine the cause of chain fires.  How many have you personally experienced?  Or personally observed?  In the more than 35 years I've been shooting Colt 1851s in cowboy action matches, yes, goes back to before SASS was founded, I've experienced or observed exactly ZERO.  I've had many people tell me that their friend, cousin, brother, next door neighbor, ad nauseum, saw one/had one, again ad nauseum.  I have no doubt that they are far more common than my experience tells me they are... but... I believe that if you observe good loading practices and keep your equipment well maintained and clean... your actual experience will equal mine.   The most important factor is good ball to chamber fit.  

[Major Crimes]

3 hours ago, Griff said:

Did y'all not read this article?  "Preventing Chain Fires"  (click on the red text to be taken to the article).  The author goes over how he came to prevent chain fires in his C & B revolvers.  Also details the experiments he did to determine the cause of chain fires.  How many have you personally experienced?  Or personally observed?  In the more than 35 years I've been shooting Colt 1851s in cowboy action matches, yes, goes back to before SASS was founded, I've experienced or observed exactly ZERO.  I've had many people tell me that their friend, cousin, brother, next door neighbor, ad nauseum, saw one/had one, again ad nauseum.  I have no doubt that they are far more common than my experience tells me they are... but... I believe that if you observe good loading practices and keep your equipment well maintained and clean... your actual experience will equal mine.   The most important factor is good ball to chamber fit.  

Griff, different thing, this is about ID the empty chamber if you only load 5 so I don't cap the empty one by mistake.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

I've been cutting the screw protector to size, starting on the open end.  I can usually get 3 markers out of one.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

OK Griff.  Enough.

 

Exactly NOBODY, not even GeoJohn and especially not YOU can provide incontrovertible determination of where exactly a Chain Fire begins.  Geo John explains well his results.  You explain well your Good Luck.  I can in fact share the Chain Fire experience.  It is not fun.  So let us consider, SAFETY is the name of the game here.  Proper fit of the Ball or Bullet is crucial.  As is NOT leaving an open pathway to Gun Powder.  Leaving an open pathway to Gun Powder is a fools errand.  It can result in hot gun gas in your face and or hot gun gas burning your hand.  I've had both.

 

Nobody has EVER captured a Chain Fire on High Speed film.  So nobody can attest without doubt what happens when or even if it always happens the exact same way every time.  Suggesting folks ignore an open pathway to Gun Powder is silly when it can be so easily eliminated with no ill effects.

 

Capping #6 before shooting the string is also fairly quick and simple, and eliminates the open pathway to Gun Powder.  On a Non-Reload stage, with properly fitting Caps, correctly seated, There is NO need to load all 6 chambers.  Shooting Cap Guns Gunfighter means my guns have to be every bit as reliable as Suppository Shooters and they are.  I never leave an open pathway to Gun Powder.  You may take whatever risks you choose.  Suggesting others act as lemmings is inexcusable.  No Offense intended.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

59 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

OK Griff.  Enough.

 

Exactly NOBODY, not even GeoJohn and especially not YOU can provide incontrovertible determination of where exactly a Chain Fire begins.  Geo John explains well his results.  You explain well your Good Luck.  I can in fact share the Chain Fire experience.  It is not fun.  So let us consider, SAFETY is the name of the game here.  Proper fit of the Ball or Bullet is crucial.  As is NOT leaving an open pathway to Gun Powder.  Leaving an open pathway to Gun Powder is a fools errand.  It can result in hot gun gas in your face and or hot gun gas burning your hand.  I've had both.

 

Nobody has EVER captured a Chain Fire on High Speed film.  So nobody can attest without doubt what happens when or even if it always happens the exact same way every time.  Suggesting folks ignore an open pathway to Gun Powder is silly when it can be so easily eliminated with no ill effects.

 

Capping #6 before shooting the string is also fairly quick and simple, and eliminates the open pathway to Gun Powder.  On a Non-Reload stage, with properly fitting Caps, correctly seated, There is NO need to load all 6 chambers.  Shooting Cap Guns Gunfighter means my guns have to be every bit as reliable as Suppository Shooters and they are.  I never leave an open pathway to Gun Powder.  You may take whatever risks you choose.  Suggesting others act as lemmings is inexcusable.  No Offense intended.

This^^.  Nothing more needs to be said   

[Tucker McNeely]

I also find that the color helps the folks that have very little c&b Nowledge easily see the uncapped nipple to check my guns clear. 

[Major Crimes]

I warned you PWB

 

I just want it noted I tried to avoid this with the below post on the other Topic linked to this

 

"If Admins wish to close this topic I have had my question answered and I wouldn't want to be the cause for rambunctious behaviour on this august site"

[Eyesa Horg]

I use a dab of fluorescent orange nail polish on the 6th nipple and a dab in the throat of the chamber. Not really noticable holstered, but can be easily seen when loading, even in the shade of a canopy. Lasts thru a match no issue. Just a dot/dab will do ya.

[Eyesa Horg]

19 hours ago, Griff said:

Did y'all not read this article?  "Preventing Chain Fires"  (click on the red text to be taken to the article).  The author goes over how he came to prevent chain fires in his C & B revolvers.  Also details the experiments he did to determine the cause of chain fires.  How many have you personally experienced?  Or personally observed?  In the more than 35 years I've been shooting Colt 1851s in cowboy action matches, yes, goes back to before SASS was founded, I've experienced or observed exactly ZERO.  I've had many people tell me that their friend, cousin, brother, next door neighbor, ad nauseum, saw one/had one, again ad nauseum.  I have no doubt that they are far more common than my experience tells me they are... but... I believe that if you observe good loading practices and keep your equipment well maintained and clean... your actual experience will equal mine.   The most important factor is good ball to chamber fit.  

What say you on the chamfering the chamber thing. I've never had an issue with my Uberti 1860's, but that doesn't mean I never will. I don't generally bring extra undies to a match.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Eyesa,

 

I ain't Griff, and didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night (not that I admit), butt > > > I am of two minds (don't bring me into this).  I shoot Pietta Cap Guns and have left the chamber mouth mostly OEM (note: Mostly).  I have also chamfered several cylinders just to test the idea.  I personally chamfered them too deep/wide.  The chamfer works a treat for loading.  Swages the Ball right in there, whether cast or swaged.  Butt:  Since I cut mine too deep/wide, the chamfered cylinders blow an excessive amount of fouling onto the Arbor, adding difficulty to loading on a cylinder stand.  (My Fault).  My OEM cylinders shave a really nice little ring of lead from the balls as they seat.  I think as long as the chamfer is carefully slight, it's a really great idea.  Should the chamber/mouth be slightly "off" as described by GeoJohn, one could well experience Chain Fire.  I haven't (lately).  Your call.  Note: I did say "lightly" chamfered as opposed to my bodge-up.

[Jasper Agate]

23 hours ago, Griff said:

Did y'all not read this article?  "Preventing Chain Fires"  (click on the red text to be taken to the article).  The author goes over how he came to prevent chain fires in his C & B revolvers.  Also details the experiments he did to determine the cause of chain fires.  How many have you personally experienced?  Or personally observed?  In the more than 35 years I've been shooting Colt 1851s in cowboy action matches, yes, goes back to before SASS was founded, I've experienced or observed exactly ZERO.  I've had many people tell me that their friend, cousin, brother, next door neighbor, ad nauseum, saw one/had one, again ad nauseum.  I have no doubt that they are far more common than my experience tells me they are... but... I believe that if you observe good loading practices and keep your equipment well maintained and clean... your actual experience will equal mine.   The most important factor is good ball to chamber fit.  

Griff,

         Happened to me JUST once. The first time I loaded my '58's  Popped the fourth cap and the fifth one went off as well. Being a Remmy it didn't do anything to the gun. Just slide down the frame. Scared the bejesus out of me and I went home read up on loading the cap & ball and it never happened again. That was in the late '80's and I shot cap guns in sass for a number of years after with no incidents. Like you said load them properly and you'll never have that problem.

                      Jasper

[McCandless]

I've never had a "chain fire" caused by problems at the front of the cylinder.   But, I have experienced "sympathetic fire" through a nipple of a charged chamber where the cap popped off under recoil.  When I fired that "1858" revolver the chamber under the hammer fired, and the exposed chamber blew.   That gave me pause.

 

Now, I've moved on to 1860s and Ruger Old Armies.  All have been worked over and caps mated to after-market nipples to ensure proper fit.

 

To answer Major Crimes' original question, I just take the nipple out of the 6th chamber.  Makes it simple.   In the extremely rare case of a stage with a one-shot reload, just put the nipple back on.  I haven't seen a pistol reload stage in over a decade.   If the stage calls for more than a one-shot reload.  (About 15 yrs ago I came across a 3-shot pistol reload!)  Then we need to stage another pistol at that position, and cap on the clock.   It's faster than shucking and reloading cartridges!

[Tequila Shooter]

In my short time shooting CAS I haven’t experienced an 11 or 12 shot string.  The only time I’ve seen an additional round has been with the rifle and that was at local matches and usually the 11 round was some kind of bonus.   I like to use a good fitting lubed wad between the ball and powder and here’s why, IMO it is easy to have powder on the face of the cylinder which can be a super highway to a chain fire.  The wad acts as a squeegee and get all the powder off the chamber wall.  Then I just make sure there is no loose powder on the face of the cylinder.   So far it’s worked for me. 

 

As far as the un-charged chamber, I use red nail polish on the front (around the mouth of the chamber), a line down the side of the cylinder, and around the nipple area.  The nail polish will stay on for a match or two and doesn’t damage anything.  I also put a cap on the unused nipple so I don’t accidentally cap it. 

 

I’m still at a point where I don’t like to be distracted by talking or change my routine, the last time I did I went up to the stage with 10 capped chambers and not one of them was charged, talk about being embarrassed. 

[Sedalia Dave]

5 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

What say you on the chamfering the chamber thing. I've never had an issue with my Uberti 1860's, but that doesn't mean I never will. I don't generally bring extra undies to a match.

 

I once had a pair of 58's with 12 cylinders. In almost every cylinder at least one and up to 3 chambers would allow the balls to move when firing the gun. Careful observation revealed that the offending cylinders had a lip on one side of the chamber mouth. You couldn't see it or measure it but it could be felt using a steel scribe.

 

Per the above write up, I carefully chamfered the openings. The chamfer was very tiny and it was obvious when turning the chamfer tool when the lip was removed and the tool was cutting all the way around the mouth of the cylinder. This tiny modification was all it took to get the balls to quit moving in the chambers when firing the revolver.

[Griff]

8 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

What say you on the chamfering the chamber thing. I've never had an issue with my Uberti 1860's, but that doesn't mean I never will. I don't generally bring extra undies to a match.

I have five Uberti 1851s (soon to be 6)... actually 3 Colt 2nd Gen, one Signature Series & one ASM made of Uberti parts.  I also have two spare Uberti cylinders.  They are all as factory made & both spares fit all five guns.  I haven't used the spares except in one match,  never saw the advantage nor the expense of buying enough cylinders & Slix nipples for six stages.  I have loaded all of them using .375 balls on both a off the gun loader and using a stand for on the gun loading...  (Generally use the stand at a match, why take the things apart more than necessary?).   The edge of each chamber on all of the cylinders is not real sharp, but neither do they appear chamfered.  They do cut a very fine ring of lead from the balls as they're pressed into the mouth.  I use a lubed "Wonder Wad" between ball & powder.  I use a flask with a spout that fits inside the mouth of the chamber to load powder.  Then the ~.36 diameter wad.  I try to use the same sequence every time I load... Powder then Wad for all 5 chambers (6 if the first loading of the day/match), then seat all the balls.  I do use the rammer to push the wads into place as well as the balls.  

 

I just got my Patersons back from being reworked.  I've only fired one in a match, the other locked up tight after one shot.  They have to be loaded off the gun (well the barrel has to removed anyway),  and either capped off the gun or with the hammer at full cock... there is no channel on the right side of the recoil shield to facilitate capping.  I'm still not sure about using them in a match... one is slick enough to cock & fire one-handed, the other seems a bit "clunky" when doing so... Maybe it'll shoot itself "in".  I'll be test firing it tomorrow.  They will definitely eliminate the sixth chamber question for me!  

[watab kid]

coool ideas , i hadnt given that much thgought till now as i dont shoot C&B much 

[Major Crimes]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

 I have loaded all of them using .375 balls on both a off the gun loader and using a stand for on the gun loading... 

 

My Uberti 51 and 61 haven't been used as much as yours and yet I am finding the .375 balls are not always shaving lead and appear to move in the chamber when firing. I got a .380 mold and use those balls when I want accuracy (I sometimes use my 61 for longer range (50M) target shooting matches). 

 

My guns are probably a bit newer than yours (2018/2020 new purchase) I wonder if there has been a change in the size of the chambers in the cylinders?

[Griff]

15 minutes ago, Major Crimes said:

My Uberti 51 and 61 haven't been used as much as yours and yet I am finding the .375 balls are not always shaving lead and appear to move in the chamber when firing. I got a .380 mold and use those balls when I want accuracy (I sometimes use my 61 for longer range (50M) target shooting matches). 

 

My guns are probably a bit newer than yours (2018/2020 new purchase) I wonder if there has been a change in the size of the chambers in the cylinders?

Yes, mine are all older, mid to late '70s, except for the ASM, but who knows how long those parts laid about before being snapped up by ASM.  I've heard before that the Uberti '51 needs a .380 ball.  If it takes a .380 to shave a ring of lead, then that's what I'd recommend you use.  

[Eyesa Horg]

13 hours ago, Griff said:

I have five Uberti 1851s (soon to be 6)... actually 3 Colt 2nd Gen, one Signature Series & one ASM made of Uberti parts.  I also have two spare Uberti cylinders.  They are all as factory made & both spares fit all five guns.  I haven't used the spares except in one match,  never saw the advantage nor the expense of buying enough cylinders & Slix nipples for six stages.  I have loaded all of them using .375 balls on both a off the gun loader and using a stand for on the gun loading...  (Generally use the stand at a match, why take the things apart more than necessary?).   The edge of each chamber on all of the cylinders is not real sharp, but neither do they appear chamfered.  They do cut a very fine ring of lead from the balls as they're pressed into the mouth.  I use a lubed "Wonder Wad" between ball & powder.  I use a flask with a spout that fits inside the mouth of the chamber to load powder.  Then the ~.36 diameter wad.  I try to use the same sequence every time I load... Powder then Wad for all 5 chambers (6 if the first loading of the day/match), then seat all the balls.  I do use the rammer to push the wads into place as well as the balls.  

 

I just got my Patersons back from being reworked.  I've only fired one in a match, the other locked up tight after one shot.  They have to be loaded off the gun (well the barrel has to removed anyway),  and either capped off the gun or with the hammer at full cock... there is no channel on the right side of the recoil shield to facilitate capping.  I'm still not sure about using them in a match... one is slick enough to cock & fire one-handed, the other seems a bit "clunky" when doing so... Maybe it'll shoot itself "in".  I'll be test firing it tomorrow.  They will definitely eliminate the sixth chamber question for me!  

I load the same way, with exception of ramming the wad. I just let the ball push it down. Sometimes a PIA if they tilt when I put them in. I have a thin tiny screwdriver I use to probe them back straight. I'm shooting.44s, so a tad more room!

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Hey Major C and Griff,

 

Had a similar problem with 375 Ball.  Found I needed a Mic. to find actual .375, lots of the commercial balls were undersized.  Then, on a whim, I changed to "bullets."  Specifically EPP UG - 36 Big Lube bullets.  Bought 'em "as cast" and  as cast they dropped from the mold at 380 or 381 and weighed 90+Gr.  They quit moving and sealed the cambers tight.  My source has retired from the "Lead" business so don't know of a current supplier of the EPP UG - 36.  The EPP UG also has a small rebate at the base to aid in squaring up before ramming.  I load "Off the Gun" with a "Tower of Power" cylinder loading stand.  The EPP UG also gives a nice "KLANG" on impact.

[Eyesa Horg]

How did you notice the balls were moving forward, or did they actually get proud of the cylinder and bind it? I have never looked while shooting mine.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

On mine, the Ball would poke its little head proud of the chamber and lock-up the gun.  Speaking of "Lock-Up" dot dot dot, when using little red/orange screw protector thingies to mark the uncapped chamber, I don't recommend using the rounded closed end of the little plastic thingie.  It may prevent the hammer from falling far enough to reset the bolt.  (don't ask how I learned this thing)

[Griff]

CC,

 

I have a .36 cal brass mold that casts a round nose bullet with a rebated base for aligning in the chamber, I still used a Wonder Wad with 'em.  In the .36 I use a light charge of ~15 grains, so have a bit more room in the chamber for such.  Those RN bullets I cast also weigh in around 90 grains.  I found that in the early days of cowboy action, the Wild Bunch used some big heavy KD targets.  It didn't matter where I hit them with a plain .36 RB, even up to 20+ grains of powder, they just didn't fall.  At the time we only used one pistol and while 5 "misses" wouldn't kill a whole match, it put a dent in your time against .44s that would take 'em down.  I found that if I hit them on the top edge, the 90 grain RN would topple 'em... albeit, kinda slowly... but down is down!  I haven't seen those in use as pistol targets since about 1988, but did see them as rifle targets a little while longer!  I've been buying Hornady round balls for quite a few years... Speers were often undersized. 

 

Test fired the re-worked Paterson, waiting for the video to finish rendering... but, all five shots went off without a hitch.  Very "clunky" action.  Very long hammer pull, very hard trigger pull.  Gunsmith didn't want to try cleaning up the action too much.  "Very, VERY "fiddly" action to work on!"  Since you have to take the barrel off the Paterson to load it, it's probably destined to be loaded in the future by my cylinder stand.  Also, as they sit right now, the only place to cap them is thru the hammer slot, or off the gun before installing the cylinder.  Which is not an option.  Maybe I'll have a gunsmith cut a "cap relief" thru the recoil shield like on Colt's other C&B revolvers.  Might be less nerve-wracking for the nervous nellies at the loading table.  That means I can also put in a cap shield to keep spent caps from inside the action.  On this five round test, one did fall in there.  Came out easily enough, but... 

Test Firing the 1836

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

For marking which cylinder not to load with powder and cap, I use a red sharpie and color the nipple and put a mark the face of the cylinder.  Pretty easy and has worked for 18+ years for me.

[Kid Rich]

Shot Plainsman today and one feller had an adjacent chamber go off when he was shooting the stage. He was behind me on the loading table and had all six nipples in the cylinder. I did not see him check to see if he capped the empty chamber and missed one of the charged ones. He had two go off at once, I'm pretty sure he capped the empty.

kR

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

I shoot 1860 .44 Sheriffs where the loading levers are pitifully short, so I load off the frame. Chambers are topped off with a cookie of beeswax/crisco mix lube - thank you J-Bar for that recipe and technique! The lube makes it easy to identify loaded chambers. When installing the cylinders, I index them so the empty chamber is at the loading window with hammer down on the first loaded chamber. When the hammer is pulled back at the loading table, that first loaded chamber automatically indexes for the first cap. After Installing 5 caps, the empty chamber has been automatically indexed so it's under the lowered hammer. Visually confirm no cap under hammer and the 5 loaded chambers are clearly visible with the lube cookie. Easy peasy.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

14 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

I shoot 1860 .44 Sheriffs where the loading levers are pitifully short, so I load off the frame. Chambers are topped off with a cookie of beeswax/crisco mix lube - thank you J-Bar for that recipe and technique! The lube makes it easy to identify loaded chambers. When installing the cylinders, I index them so the empty chamber is at the loading window with hammer down on the first loaded chamber. When the hammer is pulled back at the loading table, that first loaded chamber automatically indexes for the first cap. After Installing 5 caps, the empty chamber has been automatically indexed so it's under the lowered hammer. Visually confirm no cap under hammer and the 5 loaded chambers are clearly visible with the lube cookie. Easy peasy.

Exactly.

Its not that complicated.