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Wyatt Earp SxS Misfires


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I have been shooting an open hammer, Pedersoli "Wyatt Earp" shotgun for a few years.

I have started to have trouble with occasional light strikes in the left barrel.

The unfired shell shows a very light strike on the primer, then it will work OK for a while.

I've used Winchester AA, Federal and Challengers, along with some others and the problem persists.

I had my local g-smith look at it, but he can't see and issue with the  firing pin channel or the hammer springs. They give a good hit.

The only anomaly I can see is the hammers. They appear to be slightly dished from several years of CAS use. (Tempering problem?)

Has anyone else experienced this issue?

 

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I have no experience with your specific firearm - but sometimes I think we over analyze when it is a "gun" problem versus looking at it as a simple mechanical device.

 

You pull the trigger - the hammer falls - strikes the firing pin - the firing pins travels thru a tube/ hollow and contacts the primer.

Somewhere in that chain of mechanical operation lies your answer.

 

An occasional issue lends itself OFTEN not always, to a variable situation.

Dirt, grease, binding, etc.

The fact that it is only occurring on one side is a benefit - because you have the other side to look at and examine as a "control" to see if it visually differs from the other.

 

I would begin with a teardown and cleaning - checking for deposits anywhere in the system that could slow the hammer fall or slow the firing pins movement.

Look for any "rub" marks on springs that indicate friction or binding (hammer spring, firing pin rebound, etc).  

Look for deformations that could change the distance of the firing pins travel (you already mention hammer dishing).

Are both hammers dished?  

 

I don't know if the firing pins/ rebound springs, hammer springs are interchangable side to side - but (after marking the originating side) attempt swapping components (ONE AT A TIME) to see if the problem continues or goes away to identify questionable components.

 

Measure firing pin lengths left vs right.

Press them forward by hand and measure firing pin protusions left vs right.

Do the same by pressing them forward with the hammers - same?

 

Look and LISTEN to the strength of the hammer fall - consistent?  

Comparable side to side?

Examine springs for binding, corrosion, breakage (especially any coil springs - tho rare, a trapped coil spring can crack and still operate with variable performance).

 

Good luck 

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OEM Pedersoli Main Springs are heavy enough to set off Howitzer rounds.  Have yours been "reduced??"  Also, if the primers aren't  fully and solidly seated in the hulls, you'll get occasional FTF.

 

The Pedersoli is a "Rebounding" hammer gun.  I sounds to me as if something is dragging.  Looking hard at the rebound side of the main spring??  Pull the firing pin out and look at the firing pin bore and clean it.

 

Also need to hold yer tongue just right.

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I once had a Bakail internal hammer do the same thing. I took it apart and cleaned it. Worked better but still occasionally failed to fire left Barrel. I cleaned again then put receiver in sonic cleaner. I was amazed at the the amount of crud that came out of what I thought was a clean gun. Dried it out, oiled it up, zero issues since. 

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Howdy Cold Lake,

 

It seems that all the possible problem areas have been cover. Except maybe one. On my hammer guns there is an interrupter that keeps the hammer from hitting the firing pin if the trigger is not fully pressed. That might be something to check. Try pushing the hammer forward with your finger off the trigger to see if it works as it's supposed to. Then hold the full coked hammer with you thumb and slowly pull the trigger until it just releases and see if the hammer will fall to hit the firing pin. Also maybe you're lifting your finger off the rear trigger to quickly in the rush to open and reload the gun. Admittedly the above situations are remote, but who knows.

 

Rev. Chase

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How about your shells? I've been coming across shells with the primer a bit deeper. I shoot Federal Top Gun. I was also shooting Remington. That being said the hammer spring on my right barrel of my TTN was getting all the light hits. While at EOT Cowboy & Indian gunsmithing replaced the spring and welded the divot in the hammer up. 

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A couple of other things to check.  Pull the right hand trigger and then push the hammer as far forward as it will go and measure the firing pin protrusion.  Then do the same for the left side to see if the left hand firing pin is protruding the same amount.  Also check to make sure the firing pin retainer nut has not loosened.  (Arrow.)

 

Screenshot2023-04-06at1_31_52PM.thumb.jpeg.ec9e3ee6e6738788a6f87de69fa5b3f9.jpeg

 

 

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not sure how your side plates rest in the stock but I have seen a shotgun in the past where the hammer spring rubbed against the wood under the sideplate, the wood dident get relieved enough when the inletting was done and it caused the hammer spring to drag on that one side, 30 seconds with a sharp chisel and problem solved, if your springs run that close to the wood dirt could be a problem and wood will also do funny things if oil or moisture get to it. probably not whats going on but its an easy thing to check and wont cost you a penny

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I had the same thing happen years ago on my hammered TTN.  There were large divits in the hammers from a lot of use shooting classic cowboy.  I replaced the hammers and the problem went away.  My guess is the early TTN hammers were too soft.  I was not the only one to experience this.

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7 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Was any work ever done to this SG?

Not until this problem occurred. 

The shotgun is as it came out of the box and the springs have not been reduced.

The LEFT hammer is more dished than the right.

Both firing pins come out the same distance and show no signs of a weakness when "fired" and a thumb placed over the firing pin.

Thanks for the input Pards. I'll have another run at it using the advice and comments provided.

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8 hours ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

Not until this problem occurred. 

The shotgun is as it came out of the box and the springs have not been reduced.

The LEFT hammer is more dished than the right.

Both firing pins come out the same distance and show no signs of a weakness when "fired" and a thumb placed over the firing pin.

Thanks for the input Pards. I'll have another run at it using the advice and comments provided.

Can you n post a picture of the 'dished' hammer?

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1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Can you n post a picture of the 'dished' hammer?

Not at the moment. Another Pard had a similar problem and solved it, temporarily, by sticking some self-adhesive felt tabs, cut to fit the hammer's heads.

If that cures the issue, I'll try to order some new hammers in addition to trying the other suggestions above.

  

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3 hours ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

Not at the moment. Another Pard had a similar problem and solved it, temporarily, by sticking some self-adhesive felt tabs, cut to fit the hammer's heads.

If that cures the issue, I'll try to order some new hammers in addition to trying the other suggestions above.

  

Order 2 sets

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I have the same shotgun, after several hundred blackpowder rounds I started having the same problem.  I found the firing pin retained nut was coming loose.  I now check it before every match. (small screwdriver) No problem since.

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On 4/6/2023 at 6:43 PM, Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L said:

I had the same thing happen years ago on my hammered TTN.  There were large divits in the hammers from a lot of use shooting classic cowboy.  I replaced the hammers and the problem went away.  My guess is the early TTN hammers were too soft.  I was not the only one to experience this.

Exact same problem for me on the exact same shotgun model. Mine reliably shot Winchester, federal and Remington and my reloads for several years then one day the left barrel decided not to shoot Remington‘s. Dished hammers were what I found but since it shoots Winchester just fine and even my reloads just fine at 100% reliability I’ve never done anything to the gun. It still won’t shoot STS shells but AAs are perfect. Go figure. 
 

I thought if I had to try anything I might fill in those divots with JB Weld and file them flat again.

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JB Weld would last a couple of matches. Epoxy does not take impacts well. 

 

A drill rod sliced into a thin washer and brazed/silver-soldered/tig-tacked on the face would last forever.

 

good luck, GJ

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On 4/7/2023 at 10:59 PM, Bitterroot Jak said:

I have the same shotgun, after several hundred blackpowder rounds I started having the same problem.  I found the firing pin retained nut was coming loose.  I now check it before every match. (small screwdriver) No problem since.

I found that issue some time ago and they are tight. (Pedersoli suggested I use Locktite on the threads)

 

On 4/9/2023 at 11:01 AM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

JB Weld would last a couple of matches. Epoxy does not take impacts well. 

 

A drill rod sliced into a thin washer and brazed/silver-soldered/tig-tacked on the face would last forever.

 

good luck, GJ

That seems like a solution, if my G'smith can do it. We're down to one around here.

I'll try to order some new hammers as well, just in case.

Thanks Pards.

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On other possible thing. I the left barrel the first one fired or the second?

 

If the second, the action may be unlocking ever so slightly when the right barrel is fired. Next time it does this look carefully at the top of action where the barrels contact the receiver. Are the barrels still tight against the breech face?

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Take the hammer to any machine shop - have them tigweld a "dollop" into the dish - take it home and carefully file and polish until flat.

We are only talking about filling in 100ths of an inch - its not hard.

I have had my shop guys weld up Marlin hammers, Uberti pistol cylinder latch holes and Winchester 97 carriers.

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On 4/12/2023 at 7:56 AM, Sedalia Dave said:

On other possible thing. I the left barrel the first one fired or the second?

 

If the second, the action may be unlocking ever so slightly when the right barrel is fired. Next time it does this look carefully at the top of action where the barrels contact the receiver. Are the barrels still tight against the breech face?

 

Sedalia Dave: You may be on to something here!

I just had a look at some miss fired shells and I see the firing pin has struck the primer a little off centre.

All the other hulls, that fired normally, from either barrel were centre strikes on the the primers!!

HUMMM!!!!!!

Next time, I'll forget about the time and look closely at the action. (I'll never be in the running for anything but last place anyway!!)

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Well, I shot off most of a box of full up loads today and discovered:

The action closes fully and stays closed even with heavy loads;.

The felt pad idea didn't work on the left barrel. misfired every time until I removed it;

I tried firing the left barrel first and still had misfires;

I watched very carefully when I opened each time the left barrel misfired and noticed every misfired shell's primer was struck near the edge of the primer at about the 5 o'clock position. Now I'm wondering if the issue is the firing pin itself, because the Firing Pin Holder remained tight.

The right barrel's firing pin continues to strike centre on the primers every time.

 

Dontcha just love a good mystery?

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1 hour ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

Well, I shot off most of a box of full up loads today and discovered:

The action closes fully and stays closed even with heavy loads;.

The felt pad idea didn't work on the left barrel. misfired every time until I removed it;

I tried firing the left barrel first and still had misfires;

I watched very carefully when I opened each time the left barrel misfired and noticed every misfired shell's primer was struck near the edge of the primer at about the 5 o'clock position. Now I'm wondering if the issue is the firing pin itself, because the Firing Pin Holder remained tight.

The right barrel's firing pin continues to strike centre on the primers every time.

 

Dontcha just love a good mystery?

 

Are these factory shell or reloads?

If factory, what brand?

If Reloads, what primer?

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Some factory turkey loads I had. Lead shot, about four years old.

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Have you swapped the firing pins yet?  You can pop hulls with primer only without having to go to the range to test.  If you don't reload, maybe have a friend prime some hulls for you.

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My riding partner and I are going to try switching firing pins, to see what happens, but use primed hulls alone and pass up a reason to go to the range to shoot???????????

Not happening!:D

 

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  • 1 month later...

Update:

Got new firing pins, springs, retaining nuts and hammers on order from Pedersoli, through our local Canadian distributor, Marstar.

 

 

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As soon as they get here and Red and I can get them in.

I paid extra for shipping to get them here.in Canada, asap, and not to wait for a standard shipment from Italy.

I'm currently using my Browning BSS, but I like my Open Hammer for the extra style points! :D

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Ok.. I ain’t a gunsmith..:wacko: and I don’t shoot a hammered SxS..

I have read the fixes suggested in the entire thread..

I thought..:huh: ya just need ta replace yer hammers…

then you said firing pin strikes were hitting in the 5 o’clock area..

Could it be that the divot in the hammer is causing the firing pin 

to strike off center?? Maybe pushing it at an angle??

Just sayin..

but I see ya ordered new parts..

I think you’ll be good to go..

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  • 3 weeks later...

Parts arrived, but good Lord! 

Two hammers, two firing pins, two springs and the retaining nuts were about 1/5 the price I paid for the shotgun just ...............................a couple of decades ago.

I'm getting old. 

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